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#1
Ok guys, from my own experience with guitars I'm starting to conclude that you can find authentic tone monsters within the range from 1k to 2k and I believe that with more expensive instruments SOMETIMES you are paying for some details that have nothing to do with how they sound.

What is your input here guys?

Thank you for your attention.

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#2
Tone monsters can be had for a lot less than 1k. Do you really think you could much tonal difference between a 10k dollar Private Stock PRS over a 300$ SE you can buy used on Ebay? Doubt it. Fit and finish may be a different story. Tone has a lot to do with the player, amp etc. Guitar type would be way down the line.
#3
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#4
^Yeah, I don't know how this could not turn into a disaster given how vague the question is and how many arguments we have a week about it in threads that aren't even specifically asking about it.

To try to answer: yes, there's a lot of diminishing returns that go on with instruments. People say obnoxious things like "no guitar is worth over $X" and "anything over "$Y you're just paying for the name" which are not entirely true but not entirely false. There's a lot of snobbery over really expensive stuff and just as much sour grapes/hipsterism over cheap stuff. Nobody can agree, and as with most things you can probably ignore most of the things you read and find a price sweet spot that works for you.

So yeah. Most of the opinions on this topic are just junk that people argue about on the internet because they're insecure about their gear choices or want everyone to have the same opinion they have. You can safely ignore nearly all of it. There's no substitute for trying gear yourself and forming your own opinions.
#5
Quote by drop1337
Tone monsters can be had for a lot less than 1k. Do you really think you could much tonal difference between a 10k dollar Private Stock PRS over a 300$ SE you can buy used on Ebay? Doubt it. Fit and finish may be a different story. Tone has a lot to do with the player, amp etc. Guitar type would be way down the line.


Now I do believe you are exaggerating. I DO think the Private Stock will have WAAAAAY better tone because of the tone woods used... But let's compare an SG Standard to a SG Supreme. Do you think the tone will be $1000 different (despite the really nice looking flame top).

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#6
Quote by Roc8995
^Yeah, I don't know how this could not turn into a disaster given how vague the question is and how many arguments we have a week about it in threads that aren't even specifically asking about it.

To try to answer: yes, there's a lot of diminishing returns that go on with instruments. People say obnoxious things like "no guitar is worth over $X" and "anything over "$Y you're just paying for the name" which are not entirely true but not entirely false. There's a lot of snobbery over really expensive stuff and just as much sour grapes/hipsterism over cheap stuff. Nobody can agree, and as with most things you can probably ignore most of the things you read and find a price sweet spot that works for you.

So yeah. Most of the opinions on this topic are just junk that people argue about on the internet because they're insecure about their gear choices or want everyone to have the same opinion they have. You can safely ignore nearly all of it. There's no substitute for trying gear yourself and forming your own opinions.


Sorry if you took it that way, really. Granted, it is vague and let me explain.

I have tried SOME high end instruments (had a Parker Fly Deluxe for example) but not quite many.

To the point: I'm considering buying a couple of axes in a few months. And I don't know if I'll buy two 1-2k guitars and a great cab or one 1-2k guitar and a really high end guitar but now I feel stupid since your lines are full of truth... But, for example, I have found that the SG I have really makes me happy as a good instrument.

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Last edited by Perverockstar69 at Feb 22, 2014,
#7
I think when you get to a point where you start spending $2000+ on guitars that are "historically accurate" you are not paying a dime for tone. 9 out of 10 times it will never sound like the real thing either. It just looks the part. It's kind of why I got out of the LP community. "oh sorry my guitar definitely sounds better than yours because I have vintage correct plastics, a nicely flamed top, historically correct neck glue, an expensive relic job, and my bridge was copied straight out of the 50s.... oh and I obviously spent more than you"

I could see if someone wanted a high end guitar made by ONE guy. ONE exceptional Luthier who did all the work from start to finish. That would be the only way it would be worth the money to me.
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 22, 2014,
#8
My great drawback is that when I'm over the states I'm not even somewhat near to a good store. Most of my gear is bought online. I'm from Mexico and here the market is pretty limited. If I can spend all that money I guess I can pay transportation to a nice store but then I'll have less money xD. Story of my life...

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Last edited by Perverockstar69 at Feb 22, 2014,
#10
Quote by Perverockstar69
Sorry if you took it that way, really. Granted, it is vague and let me explain.

I have tried SOME high end instruments (had a Parker Fly Deluxe for example) but not quite many.

To the point: I'm considering buying a couple of axes in a few months. And I don't know if I'll buy two 1-2k guitars and a great cab or one 1-2k guitar and a really high end guitar but now I feel stupid since your lines are full of truth... But, for example, I have found that the SG I have really makes me happy as a good instrument.

I didn't mean to make you feel like it was a bad question. It's actually a very reasonable question, it just always gets crappy answers because you have people like the guy above me who want to feel intelligent by calling something a farce, but don't actually contribute anything thoughtful or helpful to the conversation.

You've got a fairly common problem. I think the issue is that we'd all make different choices in your position, and it's going to be hard for anyone to give you any really useful advice. It's not like you're at either end of the spectrum, you're not trying to buy a $10K vintage-correct Les Paul and you're not trying to buy 8 $200 guitars instead of 2 really good ones. So, you can't go wrong, I'm sure you'll end up with great gear, but I'm not sure you'll get the answers you wanted here. Not because you were wrong to ask, but because the question isn't one we've ever been able to answer well.
#11
The electric axes in my collection range in price from $500-3500. You CAN tell the difference.

IMHO, however, once you clear @$800, the differences are less about tone and more about features, functions and aesthetics.

If I look at the $3500+ guitars on my G.A.S. list, I'm seeng:

1) all kinds of beautiful guitars. Mind-bending finishes, gorgeous woods, and other indicia of craftsmanship I don't see in less expensive guitars;

2) guitars that may feature multiple pickup systems that can be freely intermixed, multiple standard and nonstandard outputs;

3) exotic materials- rare woods, carbon fiber, delta metal, etc.- that make guitars stronger and/or lighter and/or more beautiful, etc

And so forth.

Do they sound better? To my ear, yes...but not necessarily x$ times better than a cheaper guitar. But I'm not usually looking at those guitars to sound better.
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#12
Quote by Roc8995
it just always gets crappy answers because you have people like the guy above me who want to feel intelligent by calling something a farce, but don't actually contribute anything thoughtful or helpful to the conversation.



I gave my original answer and stated what i thought were the main facets of tone. Smart guy.
#13
I think we need someone to record a bunch of guitars from $100 to 5k+ and have people guess the price based on the tone alone... since in music that's all that really matters. That would be awesome.
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 23, 2014,
#14
Quote by drop1337
I gave my original answer and stated what i thought were the main facets of tone. Smart guy.


Well, I have played different PRS SE and I don't think those are good because how they feel and how they sound, but that's just me...

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#15
Quote by dannyalcatraz
The electric axes in my collection range in price from $500-3500. You CAN tell the difference.

IMHO, however, once you clear @$800, the differences are less about tone and more about features, functions and aesthetics.

If I look at the $3500+ guitars on my G.A.S. list, I'm seeng:

1) all kinds of beautiful guitars. Mind-bending finishes, gorgeous woods, and other indicia of craftsmanship I don't see in less expensive guitars;

2) guitars that may feature multiple pickup systems that can be freely intermixed, multiple standard and nonstandard outputs;

3) exotic materials- rare woods, carbon fiber, delta metal, etc.- that make guitars stronger and/or lighter and/or more beautiful, etc

And so forth.

Do they sound better? To my ear, yes...but not necessarily x$ times better than a cheaper guitar. But I'm not usually looking at those guitars to sound better.


I like your answer too... I'm not that into lot's of features and options, simple good guitars make my day; now, almost all of us love beautiful finishes and details, but I have found detailed guitars for not that much money. Example? Maton Mastersound guitars, or even Reverend, those are nice guitars!

Right now paying attention to a PRS Mira and a Maton MS503 but my mind tricks me bad sometimes...

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#16
Quote by Perverockstar69
Well, I have played different PRS SE and I don't think those are good because how they feel and how they sound, but that's just me...


I've played a friends artist SC245 against SE245 and the necks are both wide fat and almost identical. The SC has better fretwork but overall the necks are almost the same. Tone wise. Even less difference with the same setups.

I think his SC was about 4k or so. The SE245 can be bought used for less than 400$.
Last edited by drop1337 at Feb 23, 2014,
#17
I'm with the majority here. Once you get past the 1k-$1500 range, the improvements seem to be in finishes, features, ect. more than tone. For me, the feel is the main thing, I have to search through a lot of different guitars before one feels right, even of the same model. I've only found 3 guitars that felt perfect to me, and two are the Gibsons I own. I've tried many very nice axes, but none felt as good, let alone better, than my two mid-level Gibsons.

On a more or less related note, today it seems like cheaper guitars and amps are getting much better. Even in the 8 or so years I've been playing, there has been an explosion of very nice sounding cheaper gear. For example, you can get a Vypyr Tube, which will rival much much more expensive amps in sound, for $250. When I started, the best that could be done for that price was a decent solid state. Jet Cities weren't around then. It's awesome how much bang for buck is available nowadays.
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#18
Quote by drop1337
I've played a friends artist SC245 against SE245 and the necks are both wide fat and almost identical. The SC has better fretwork but overall the necks are almost the same. Tone wise. Even less difference with the same setups.

I think his SC was about 4k or so. The SE245 can be bought used for less than 400$.


Not here man, for my hands and ears the differences are bigger. One simple example, strum bot guitars unplugged, feel them and hear them... When you plug them the differences are even more noticeable.

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#19
Quote by classicrocker01
I'm with the majority here. Once you get past the 1k-$1500 range, the improvements seem to be in finishes, features, ect. more than tone. For me, the feel is the main thing, I have to search through a lot of different guitars before one feels right, even of the same model. I've only found 3 guitars that felt perfect to me, and two are the Gibsons I own. I've tried many very nice axes, but none felt as good, let alone better, than my two mid-level Gibsons.

On a more or less related note, today it seems like cheaper guitars and amps are getting much better. Even in the 8 or so years I've been playing, there has been an explosion of very nice sounding cheaper gear. For example, you can get a Vypyr Tube, which will rival much much more expensive amps in sound, for $250. When I started, the best that could be done for that price was a decent solid state. Jet Cities weren't around then. It's awesome how much bang for buck is available nowadays.


This is exactly a subject I discussed with a bassist a couple of days ago. There are more good amps available these times, on all price ranges. Same with guitars, you can get nice instruments for not so much money, too bad some of the classic brands are lowering their quality/price (Ibanez, LTD, Gibson...).

Edit: sorry for the double post...

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#20
Quote by Perverockstar69
I like your answer too... I'm not that into lot's of features and options, simple good guitars make my day; now, almost all of us love beautiful finishes and details, but I have found detailed guitars for not that much money. Example? Maton Mastersound guitars, or even Reverend, those are nice guitars!

Right now paying attention to a PRS Mira and a Maton MS503 but my mind tricks me bad sometimes...

BIG Reverend an here: I just pulled the trigger on #3, and have several more on my G.A.S. list.

I also have to send out some checks to luthiers making high-end Teleclones...
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#23
I don't know how much to trust those guys :/

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#25
Quote by Perverockstar69
Not here man, for my hands and ears the differences are bigger. One simple example, strum bot guitars unplugged, feel them and hear them... When you plug them the differences are even more noticeable.


Don't get me wrong... I would much rather have the SC. Little aesthetic differences and functional differences due to high QC and craftsmanship go a long way to facilitate a player and even peace of mind...but how much in matters of tone due to wood on an electrified guitar, i don't think it's a lot. What you hear while unplugged may not be as influential as you think.

Here's a video on tonewoods. While i don't agree with everything, i think it's pretty fair to say woods are a bit overrated, along with many other aspects concerning guitars of which i don't care to argue about atm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mH5hwLkxCI
#26
Honestly.... I wouldn't even say amps are the most important aspects of tone TO A POINT. Will you get 6505 tone on a Line 6 spyder? Probably not. But that's not to say you couldn't get very similar tone from any half ass decent tube rig. Especially if it's biased/slightly modded to suit your main needs. You don't need an ENGL Savage to get brootz. Would it be nice to have one and would there be differences to the rig that's a tenth less in price. I'm sure there would be. Worth the cost? Maybe to me..For you, maybe not.

I would almost say getting rid of your cheap speakers and getting V30's/similar would yield much better results and be probably the biggest change in tone a metalhead with a cheap tube amp could make. Made a shit ton of difference for me. A lot more than switching SE for an SC.

Also getting an axe with some decent electronics and non worn frets made a big difference. Going from SS to tube made a noticeable difference for me, too...but at bedroom volumes, my SS can still dish out some very usable distortion that some people might mistake for a much more expensive tube rig. Quality pickups made my tone a bit better but not as much as one would think considering i had pure, no name stock junk before.
#27
If you are looking for good tones, look at amps, speakers, effects and that kind of stuff. You can also improve your guitar's tone by changing electronics and pickups. Yes, guitar does matter to the tone but again, if you want better tone, a new amp is what you usually want (unless you have a crappy guitar).

How the guitar feels and plays is really important. Yes, of course the tone is also important but I would rather buy a guitar that feels awesome than a guitar that sounds awesome. Guitar is more than just tone and that's what a lot of people seem to forget. And that's why there are people who say you nobody needs a real Gibson because it doesn't sound 5x better than an Epiphone that costs 5x less. Also, I would rather buy a guitar that I'm completely satisfied with than a guitar with a better price/quality ratio that I'm not satisfied with. Price isn't everything, tone isn't everything. I will spend €1000 on my guitar if it feels and sounds great and if I'm not satisfied with anything cheaper.

My trumpet cost €2500. Was it worth it? For me? Yes. For somebody else? Maybe not. It felt good to play and sounded good, I was satisfied with it. Yes, there are cheaper trumpets but they just aren't as good.

So is something worth it is up to you. Usually more pricey guitars have better build quality and most likely will sound and feel better. But when you get to the over €2000 price range, most of the time the changes are in looks and stuff like that. You may not be able to tell a clear difference in quality between a €1000 and a €2000 guitar, but the difference between a €500 and a €1000 guitar is way more noticeable. And there's no such thing as "twice as good". It's all subjective. If something works for you, it works for you.

OK, enough rambling.
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#28
Scott grove for some imperfect single blind tests with a crappy video cam mic. Despite the shortcomings I'm convinced anything above $600 might not sound better. His Cort Axe and PRS se eg have done really well. In other youtubers, PRS we have destroyed some Gibsons and was barely beaten by a souped up Gibson.

Imho we need a lot more blind testing.
Last edited by bob13bob at Feb 23, 2014,
#30
Well, I have found really helpful your input guys. I thank you all. I don't feel stupid anymore dealing with my situation .

The not-so-vast experience I got have told me what you guys say. It's really important for guitar to feel right in your hands and the good news are that my hands can find home on some different profiles and radiuses, and yes, you really can feel a good quality guitar as soon as you grab it. With that in mind is what I say that guitars that roam 1k to 2k prices I've found most of them, if not all, to feel right in my hands, some more, some less...

About what MaggaraMarine said, I say absolutely yes! That's why I have concentrated my efforts and my money on getting the nicest amp I could get (for my needs and tastes), same with my pedals and the rest of my tools and accessories. That's why now I'm concentrated in getting guitars. Some people ask me why do I want more guitars and my answer to them is that I'm not the kind of guy who marries with just one and only tone... Curiously my amp covers most of the territory I need, for now...

I really wish I could go to a nice store and spend a day or two grabbing instruments and playing them through and amp like mine but like I stated it's not that easy, most of the times I have to buy "blindly" through the web. I have been pretty lucky though. Most of the stuff I got I like it quite much indeed. But I'm still wondering if spending 4k in a gorgeous guitar worths more than getting a couple of nice guitars.

Sorry if my english is not perfect, it's my second language.

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Last edited by Perverockstar69 at Feb 23, 2014,
#31
I really wish I could go to a nice store and spend a day or two grabbing instruments and playing them through and amp like mine but like I stated it's not that easy, most of the times I have to buy "blindly" through the web. I have been pretty lucky though. Most of the stuff I got I like it quite much indeed. But I'm still wondering if spending 4k in a gorgeous guitar worths more than getting a couple of nice guitars.


I live in a major population center in the USA and STILL order most of my stuff via phone or Internet. Why? Because most of what is available near me is stuff I don't want.

As to the last bit, only you can answer that question. For me, "it depends" on how I answer certain questions, like:

Do I have a specific need I'm trying to cover? Multiple needs? Is there something special i want? What are my current finances like?

Usually, I wind up NOT getting the more expensive guitars. I still keep them on my G.A.S. list, though, and eeeeevery once in a while, I get one.

When I do, of course, it's always a question of which itch to scratch!

Sometimes I get lucky, and a special deal lands in my lap. That's why I'm getting a Jon Kammerer "flag" guitar this year. Other times, it's decided by aesthetics or the guitar's unique functions- the Vigier Surfreter, Crimson "Fripp" series, Mykas and Veilettes are always on my radar...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

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Log off and play yer guitar!

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#32
I hear you man, when I really want some specific piece of gear it finishes landing on me as a good deal, why? I'm not sure but it just happens and it makes me happy. Always something ends working out at my favor. It's probably my mindset that makes me pay attention to opportunities.

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#34
I agree with colin
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#36
Sorry, Colin is Roc8995
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
In a lot of cases, the price of the guitar is based more on where its made than the materials used. A $600 ESP LTD would cost at least 800-900 if made in North America
#38
Quote by Dave_Mc
Sorry, Colin is Roc8995


+69

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#39
I think way to much emphasis is on $ amount and not enough on can the guitar deliver or not. fancy AAAAA flame maple tops cost more but don't add to tone any more than a plain one. if you can't find a great guitar for $1000 then something is wrong. I'd even go as far as to say you should be able to find a decent one for $500. sure at that price point they may need a tweak or tow to be really good but still. great tone is the sum of all the parts- guitar, amps,fx (or lack thereof) and most important your playing. you can't really separate them and stick a $ amount on that. pretty sure most of us have seen some bar band where the guitar player sounded great using what some may consider "sub-par" gear. I can plug my MIM Strat (granted has a bunch of mods) into my Valveking with pedals (no high end stuff there) and get a good tone that I'm proud of. the gear can deliver and that is the point. could I use a squire bullet and an MG10 and sound great well probably not. you could put solid gold parts on that squire bullet and technically it would be a $5000 guitar but that won't make it sound any better just look cool.
#40
Quote by peskypesky


Not conclusive in any way at all, ever. Were they set up like they like it? Probably not, maybe the Squier was set up more suitably to his preferences and felt nicer to play, as most guitars would. Do they have the strings that they like? Was the weight clouding his judgement? Or the smell, or any number of things? 50 other people could get it all right, or wrong and it still wouldn't prove anything.

I'm not saying anything about the quality of the guitars, but there's too many variables to consider looking at that as anything other than a bit of fun. And bringing it up as proof of anything just seems silly.