#1
Ok I have a question. I have a guitar equipped with a Floyd on it and I was wondering if I'd have any advantages of putting a string retainer bar on it. P.S. It has a reverse headstock if that matters
#2
Unless the angle from the end of the locking nut to the tuning machine capstans is ridiculously large, you will not get any benefit. And even then, the only benefit you will get is that there would not be a huge space between the strings and the headstock. A locking nut negates the need for a string retainer bar, since the strings are locked down at the nut.
"Maybe this world is another planet's hell?" - Aldous Huxley
#3
It depends on the guitar. If it has a straight headstock it more than likely will benefit having one. If it's a tilted headstock then it may or may not benefit with one. The way you can tell if you will benefit by having one installed is if your strings all go noticeably sharp when you lock the nut down. The string retainer helps prevent the strings from going sharp when you lock the nut down. This way once you get the guitar in tune and lock the nut it should only need a tiny adjustment of the fine tuners. Or no adjustment may be needed at all .

This is to determine what kind of headstock you have. Top one is straight, bottom is tilted.
Last edited by Way Cool JR. at Feb 24, 2014,
#4
Quote by Way Cool JR.
It depends on the guitar. If it has a straight headstock it more than likely will benefit having one.


The Floyd Locking Nut pretty much makes the string retainers a non-factor in the overall operation of the guitar, just as it makes the tuners a non-factor. Nothing wrong with having them there either way; it's just that as long as the strings are locked in the nut, they're not doing anything relative to the tuners that would make string retainers worthwhile.
#6
Quote by dspellman
The Floyd Locking Nut pretty much makes the string retainers a non-factor in the overall operation of the guitar, just as it makes the tuners a non-factor. Nothing wrong with having them there either way; it's just that as long as the strings are locked in the nut, they're not doing anything relative to the tuners that would make string retainers worthwhile.



This.
#7
Quote by dspellman
The Floyd Locking Nut pretty much makes the string retainers a non-factor in the overall operation of the guitar, just as it makes the tuners a non-factor. Nothing wrong with having them there either way; it's just that as long as the strings are locked in the nut, they're not doing anything relative to the tuners that would make string retainers worthwhile.

They started making them for Floyd's for a reason and they play an important roll in the operation of the guitar. On some guitars without them they can give you headaches on tuning up a Floyd when you get to the lock down part. From experience I know that they work great when needed . To straight up say they are a non-factor in the overall operation is just wrong.


If the strings aren't pushed down tight to the entire surface of the the nut then when you lock it down the strings will go sharp. Sometimes they will go really sharp leaving you with not having enough adjustment with the fine tuners to get it back in tune. So that leaves you tuning it flat then locking it pulling it closer to tune then fine tuning.

They then created the String retainer bars to help rid of this problem. That way the bar can be adjusted to hold the strings down tight against the entire surface of the nut while it's unlocked. Then when you tune up to pitch then lock the nut it doesn't pull it sharp. This way you either have to fine tune very little or none at all.

Quote by stormin1155
This.

No not entirely at all.


TS:
I gave you the proper information to go by if you need one or not. They make them for a reason. If you need one in your case is the question. I don't think dspellman or stormin1155 quite understand the purpose of the string retainer bars.
Last edited by Way Cool JR. at Feb 24, 2014,
#8
Quote by Way Cool JR.

I gave you the proper information to go by if you need one or not. They make them for a reason. If you need one in your case is the question. I don't think dspellman or stormin1155 quite understand the purpose of the string retainer bars.


You must be right.

I was told by Fender here in Corona that it was to maintain a proper angle leading into the tuner pegs. Floyds hadn't been invented yet, but those string retainers had been around for 25 years before that.

Of the Floyd-equipped guitars I own, only two have straight-line headstocks; the rest are tilted. Of those two, one has a string retainer bar (and the designer told me it was mostly there because the non-Floyd-equipped guitar had one) and the other doesn't. Neither go any sharper when the locking nut is cinched down than the tilted headstock versions (which also go slightly sharp).

As I mentioned, though, when the lock nut is cinched down, they serve no purpose at all.
Last edited by dspellman at Feb 24, 2014,
#9
Quote by dspellman
You must be right.

I was told by Fender here in Corona that it was to maintain a proper angle leading into the tuner pegs. Floyds hadn't been invented yet, but those string retainers had been around for 25 years before that.

Of the Floyd-equipped guitars I own, only two have straight-line headstocks; the rest are tilted. Of those two, one has a string retainer bar (and the designer told me it was mostly there because the non-Floyd-equipped guitar had one) and the other doesn't. Neither go any sharper when the locking nut is cinched down than the tilted headstock versions (which also go slightly sharp).

As I mentioned, though, when the lock nut is cinched down, they serve no purpose at all.

They may do nothing at all when it's locked down, but that's not their purpose to have a function while the nut is locked. Their purpose is for when the nut is unlocked. This helps aid in getting the guitar tuned easily by keeping the string held tight to the nut for they don't go sharp when the nut is locked.

If the retainer bar isn't adjusted properly it will not serve it's purpose. You can find illustrations on the net on how to properly adjust them. Some of your Floyd guitars may benefit from it, especially since you said some with the bar are still going sharp when locking down. It will help make the tuning process much easier for you, since that is their purpose after all.

The guitars that have a retainer bar without a Floyd are serving a completely different purpose than the ones with a Floyd and lock nut. Guitars with a Floyd don't automatically need one they only need them if they benefit having one. That's why you see basically every straight headstock Floyd guitar with them, and you see some tilted headstock guitars with them and some without.

You're not going to need a retainer bar on a tilted headstock without a Floyd period . The tilt of the head stock takes care of everything. A straight lined headstock Like a Fender Strat without a Floyd really only needs a couple of string trees at most (and that's what they usually come with from the factory). I wouldn't use a retainer bar because it just adds more friction causing more tuning stability issues while using the trem. I would rather upgrade to roller trees instead.
#10
Quote by Way Cool JR.
This helps aid in getting the guitar tuned easily by keeping the string held tight to the nut for they don't go sharp when the nut is locked.

If the retainer bar isn't adjusted properly it will not serve it's purpose. You can find illustrations on the net on how to properly adjust them. Some of your Floyd guitars may benefit from it, especially since you said some with the bar are still going sharp when locking down.


As I mentioned, it doesn't seem to matter whether the headstocks are tilted or straight, retainer bars (or string tees) or not, some go slightly sharp when the nut is locked down, some don't. I'm not sure that it will matter much if the retainer bar on the one Floyd-equipped straight-pull headstock I have is "adjusted;" there's simply not any adjustment there.
#11
Quote by dspellman
As I mentioned, it doesn't seem to matter whether the headstocks are tilted or straight, retainer bars (or string tees) or not, some go slightly sharp when the nut is locked down, some don't. I'm not sure that it will matter much if the retainer bar on the one Floyd-equipped straight-pull headstock I have is "adjusted;" there's simply not any adjustment there.


Sorry for late reply, I must of missed it.
They can all be adjusted, you just tighten or loosen the screws to lower or raise the bar. While the nut is unlocked you just lower it till the the strings are making full contact across the entire surface of the nut. If their not making full contact you just simply screw the screws in to lower it till they do.

I know this is a tilted one but the pic shows you what I'm talking about and works the same as a straight. You can see the little gap on the incorrect one, you don't want to see that while it's unlocked.

#12
Quote by Way Cool JR.
Sorry for late reply, I must of missed it.
They can all be adjusted, you just tighten or loosen the screws to lower or raise the bar. While the nut is unlocked you just lower it till the the strings are making full contact across the entire surface of the nut. If their not making full contact you just simply screw the screws in to lower it till they do.

I know this is a tilted one but the pic shows you what I'm talking about and works the same as a straight. You can see the little gap on the incorrect one, you don't want to see that while it's unlocked.



None of my locking nuts have that gentle curve BEHIND the nut. Mine make contact at the slot in the front and the slot in the back and that's pretty much it.
#13
Quote by dspellman
None of my locking nuts have that gentle curve BEHIND the nut. Mine make contact at the slot in the front and the slot in the back and that's pretty much it.

That's cool, as long as the strings are held down tight from front to back when unlocked then you're good to go. It doesn't matter what shape it is (flat,ramped or curved).