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#1
I wanna play metal but my guitar tone sucks. I will tell you guys all i know.
I have an epiphone les paul special, 2 humbuckers,now, i played acoustic for awhile but is a hell of a difference and i'm dissapointed, i have a line 6 spider iv 15, and guitar rig on my pc with Rammfire, because i think rammstein has the best guitar tone, but still with rammfire presets sounds too muddy, you can't distinguish the notes when playing, when doing power chords,and opens. And yeah i heard about palm muting. The thing is the sound of it, not really my technique. I haven't changed the stock strings from it, i play with the neck pickup, it sounds more muddy with the bridge one,i have a cheap cable called sssnake ipp1030, i know my guitar is cheap too but, i think i can get a pretty good tone out of it as i read epiphones are good, i dropped to D and C too, and with C sounds even more muddy sounds like a motorcycle. All i learned on acoustic i learned from myself and internet, but when changed to electric everything changed, i asked lots of questions and people said it's my technique, maybe, but the sound of it isn't right too, and that affects all. I really need some tips... I like metal, i enjoy playing it, i know it's hard to play it but i won't give up,do you guys think it's a good ideea to make my own preset on guitar rig to sound good with the guitar, do i have to change the strings, the cable?
#2
Everybody has their own opinions and you'll get lots of good suggestions here, but the more I've dealt with stock Epi pickups, the more I think that they must cost Epi about 75 cents a piece. They are just crap. I bought a new Epi LP Standard and loved everything about the guitar except the muddy sound. I replaced the pickups with some GFS Mean 90's and it is an altogether different instrument. I've also had very good luck with GFS vintage PAF pickups as well. But stock Epi pickups are really terrible sounding in my experience. I'd think hard about upgrading them.
#3
You could try raising the pups a little, I like mine so that 2mm pick is held between the pup and high E with a little more gap on the low E.
#4
your gear isn't helping but try using the bridge pickup instead. I'd never use the neck pickup for metal type stuff (apart from maybe the odd bit of lead).
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#6
bad amp, guitar, presets, neck pickup... limited metal playing capability.

it's an uphill climb from here and I'm not sure where to start. I would suggest at least practicing palm muting since it's pretty much in all genres of music. You do know your technique is where 90% of your sound comes from. How hard/soft you attack the strings. Angle of the pick. Picking too far/close to the bridge. It's not "just playing the right notes." You have to play the notes "the right way." Make sure when you are in drop C or D that the songs you are playing are in the same tuning you are.

Maybe take lessons and save for better gear?


Sorry I'm such an A-hole.
Last edited by cheesefries at Mar 2, 2014,
#8
Try a modeling pedal. Like a digitech Rp whatever. There are all kinds. Zoom, Roland, Boss, and many others. The amp and guitar is limited unless you step up. I like the RP300a I picked up for $30 on Craigslist with the power supply. Not bad tone for 30 dollars, and fun to play.

Good luck!
#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
your gear isn't helping but try using the bridge pickup instead. I'd never use the neck pickup for metal type stuff (apart from maybe the odd bit of lead).


this forstarters. next lay off the distortion. new players tend to lay it on really thick and that isn't the plan. make sure you eq things well to get a good sound.
#10
A Les paul isn't going to be that good for metal . With a 24.75 scale length, the strings will be looser and this will create a warmer tone. But when you add high amounts of distortion this will turn into mud. Of course this can probably be EQ'd out but it's never going to be a good metal guitar. The second problem you're drop tuning which is just going to make the guitar sound even muddier. third problem: epiphone pickups.
#11
Quote by kingking22
A Les paul isn't going to be that good for metal . With a 24.75 scale length, the strings will be looser and this will create a warmer tone. But when you add high amounts of distortion this will turn into mud. Of course this can probably be EQ'd out but it's never going to be a good metal guitar. The second problem you're drop tuning which is just going to make the guitar sound even muddier. third problem: epiphone pickups.


well zakk wylde and bill from mastodon disagree. tons fo metal guys use LP's.
#12
Quote by monwobobbo
Lay off the distortion. new players tend to lay it on really thick and that isn't the plan.


Ahhh! I thought I got rid of those bad memories!
#13
Quote by monwobobbo
well zakk wylde and bill from mastodon disagree. tons fo metal guys use LP's.


You're talking about professional guitarists with professional gear and more than likely custom guitars. What does this have to do with normal people practicing in their living room on practice gear. The pros use LPs because they're endorsing the brand, it doesn't mean a Les Paul is actually a good metal guitar because it's not.
Last edited by kingking22 at Mar 2, 2014,
#14
Quote by kingking22
You're talking about professional guitarists with professional gear and more than likely custom guitars. What does this have to do with normal people practicing in their living room on practice gear. The pros use LPs because they're endorsing the brand, it doesn't mean a Les Paul is actually a good metal guitar because it's not.




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#15
Quote by kingking22
You're talking about professional guitarists with professional gear and more than likely custom guitars. What does this have to do with normal people practicing in their living room on practice gear. The pros use LPs because they're endorsing the brand, it doesn't mean a Les Paul is actually a good metal guitar because it's not.


clearly it does show that they can be used for metal. as for them not being well that is your opinion and not a fact. no one said you need "pro" gear to play at home but that doesn't mean discounting an option either. tons of metal has been made on LP's over the years. not your cup of tea fine but doesn't mean it can't work either.
#16
Quote by monwobobbo
clearly it does show that they can be used for metal. as for them not being well that is your opinion and not a fact. .


I'm sure it can be used for metal but it's not designed for it. 24.75 scale = lacking string tension, not good for high distortion or down tuning. 22 fret. No Double cut-away. Vintage frets, no jumbo or XL jumbos on the Gibsons LP as far as I know. The neck hill is ridiculous.

To OP the best thing you could probably do is put new strings on the guitar. Something such as D'Addario ProSteels.
Last edited by kingking22 at Mar 2, 2014,
#18
Quote by monwobobbo
well zakk wylde and bill from mastodon disagree. tons fo metal guys use LP's.


true. lp is great for metal. I'm just not sure i'd set one up Drop C. I'm sure it can be done fine with 11s or 12s. Just no experience whatsoever with those lower tunings on an LP.

Well lookie here. Drop B is fine on an LP. Guessing C will be ok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seenKwG0t4w
Last edited by cheesefries at Mar 2, 2014,
#19
Quote by kingking22
The pros use LPs because they're endorsing the brand, it doesn't mean a Les Paul is actually a good metal guitar because it's not.


Lol okay.
#20
Unless I'm reading it wrong, you're playing in D or C standard. Change your string gauge to compensate, or your strings will all have too little tension. Put on some distortion and there's your mud right there. I believe your guitar comes stock with 0.046-0.010, which is a little thin for down tuning, especially for C.

Use a little less gain when playing. It's very easy to just max it out when playing to get the br00t4lz when first starting out, but you're also bringing with it more mud. Chances are you don't actually need that much gain.

I have no experience with your cable, but unless your cable is atrocious, I think you should be focusing more on the other aspects of your setup because those would play more role in your sound.

I have never played a 15W Line 6 before, so I'll reserve my judgement and not jump on the bandwagon. Tone aside, it sounds a little bit loose to me. Not so much that it'll make you immediately say it's not good for metal, but I think it's noticeable. That's probably part of what you're noticing in your tone.

Your stock pickups, as mentioned above, are also probably part of the reason why it sounds muddy.

I think you should start by having your guitar set up for a higher gauge first, since you're downtuning. I'm of the opinion that the gauge you're using is too small, which will affect your tone immensely. Get the cheap stuff out of the way first, and if that doesn't work, you can start at looking to do some upgrades in your rig.
#21
I recorded this screwing around awhile back. Line 6 Spider IV 15 watt on the Metal channel. I picked this up for like 40 bucks a few years ago and it's been my bedroom amp ever since. I'm happy with it for what it is.
I suck so ya don't gotta remind me

GNR Welcome To The Jungle
Last edited by cheesefries at Mar 2, 2014,
#22
I use a Spider IV 15 watt too for practice. Bought it for $50 on Boxing day It's capable of playing metal without excessive mud if you EQ it properly. Use the Metal setting with a fair bit of mids and turn the gain down to just past 12-1 o'clock. Keep the Treble and Bass around 12 oclock too.

If you're tuning past D Standard and you don't play Sabbath, then you're gonna need heavier gauge strings for sure.

The rest is up to you and your hands
#23
Quote by kingking22
You're talking about professional guitarists with professional gear and more than likely custom guitars. What does this have to do with normal people practicing in their living room on practice gear. The pros use LPs because they're endorsing the brand, it doesn't mean a Les Paul is actually a good metal guitar because it's not.







Had to go with a full-stack on that one. But in all seriousness, this dude is talking out of his ass/clearly has not heard of using appropriately-gauged strings to compensate for scale length and tuning. My old Les Paul could tear heads off with its metal tone. I could list probably 100+ metal guitarists who also use Lps, but I'll save myself the effort.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Mar 2, 2014,
#24
Quote by KailM

Had to go with a full-stack on that one. But in all seriousness, this dude is talking out of his ass/clearly has not heard of using appropriately-gauged strings to compensate for scale length and tuning. My old Les Paul could tear heads off with its metal tone. I could list probably 100+ metal guitarists who also use Lps, but I'll save myself the effort.


100+ metal guitarists which use a Les Paul instead of one of many other guitar brands out there which are making much better suited guitars for the application of metal.

What is that supposed to prove exactly? this doesn't prove anything except that you know 100 guitarists who are using the wrong guitar.

You think because they're getting paid for playing guitar that gives your argument more validation? You think because you can chuck higher gauge strings on a Les Paul in an attempt to combat its scale length, that this will make a Les Paul a good guitar for high gain and metal shred? Poor arguments because whatever you can do to a Les Paul (higher gauge strings, or put in EMG's). There will always be a guitars out there which are much better designed for playing metal.
#25
Quote by kingking22
100+ metal guitarists which use a Les Paul instead of one of many other guitar brands out there which are making much better suited guitars for the application of metal.

What is that supposed to prove exactly? this doesn't prove anything except that you know 100 guitarists who are using the wrong guitar.

You think because they're getting paid for playing guitar that gives your argument more validation? You think because you can chuck higher gauge strings on a Les Paul in an attempt to combat its scale length, that this will make a Les Paul a good guitar for high gain and metal shred? Poor arguments because whatever you can do to a Les Paul (higher gauge strings, or put in EMG's). There will always be a guitars out there which are much better designed for playing metal.

Just a thought. Maybe there isn't a standard "metal tone" that everyone should measure against?

If the professionals end up with a tone that they like using a Les Paul, that's all that matters. It doesn't matter that their guitar isn't "metal enough".
#26
Quote by triface
Just a thought. Maybe there isn't a standard "metal tone" that everyone should measure against?

If the professionals end up with a tone that they like using a Les Paul, that's all that matters. It doesn't matter that their guitar isn't "metal enough".



Exactly. Using the term 'metal' is pretty nondescript in this day and age anyway. The term is so broad it may mean something different to anyone that says it. If your definition of 'metal' is Yingwe-style shred, then yes, there are better choices than a Les Paul.

However, that's not the way everyone plays metal. The guitar is not even the first cog in the gears that dictate how you sound. The amp is much more important in that. For all senses and purposes, a Les Paul with its 24.75" scale and fewer frets is NOT that much different than a typical 'shred' guitar. Everything can be changed -- pickups (which usually need to be changed to get a better 'metal' tone on most LPs), and strings for lower tunings. Kingking22 acts like it's a completely different instrument...

kingking22, I'm not sure why you're so butthurt over this. You've got an opinion, and most people don't agree with it. That's life. Maybe my mention of 100+ professional metal players using Les Pauls was irrelevant (probably not). So instead I'll leave you with this: When I owned a Les Paul, my tone and playing for the genres of thrash, death metal, and black metal sounded ****ing fantastic. Despite having a more "shred-approved" guitar now, my old axe sounded no less-suited for metal, and didn't hold me back in any way. Cheers.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Mar 3, 2014,
#27
Quote by kingking22
100+ metal guitarists which use a Les Paul instead of one of many other guitar brands out there which are making much better suited guitars for the application of metal.

What is that supposed to prove exactly? this doesn't prove anything except that you know 100 guitarists who are using the wrong guitar.

You think because they're getting paid for playing guitar that gives your argument more validation? You think because you can chuck higher gauge strings on a Les Paul in an attempt to combat its scale length, that this will make a Les Paul a good guitar for high gain and metal shred? Poor arguments because whatever you can do to a Les Paul (higher gauge strings, or put in EMG's). There will always be a guitars out there which are much better designed for playing metal.


news flash dude guitar players have been using LP's since the very beginning of metal. what does metal only count if "you" think it's metal? yes if a guy who gets paid on that level then what they say does count for way more than a nobody like you. are there guitars that make doing the way downtuned thing easier to deal with yes but that doesn't mean you can't make it work with a LP.
#28
Quote by kingking22
A Les paul isn't going to be that good for metal . With a 24.75 scale length, the strings will be looser and this will create a warmer tone. But when you add high amounts of distortion this will turn into mud. Of course this can probably be EQ'd out but it's never going to be a good metal guitar. The second problem you're drop tuning which is just going to make the guitar sound even muddier. third problem: epiphone pickups.

This is Bull Shit.Les Paul's for one are awesome for metal,24.75 scale means MORE tension on the strings,it's opposite of what you think.Thats at least what I've gathered from playing a les paul vs a strat of some sort.Correct me if I'm wrong.
Granted I do not own a real gibson, but I played a friends 1994 gibson les paul custom and it kicked arse through my randall Stock pickups and all.
Guitars:
Esp Ec-1000 VB with Emg 81/60
Esp ec-1000 Snow White with SD Jb/Jazz
Esp ltd f-50
Amp:
Randall rd-20h
Randall rd112-v30
Pedals:
Digitech rp-1000
#29
Quote by tybacca60
This is Bull Shit.Les Paul's for one are awesome for metal,24.75 scale means MORE tension on the strings,it's opposite of what you think.Thats at least what I've gathered from playing a les paul vs a strat of some sort.Correct me if I'm wrong.
Granted I do not own a real gibson, but I played a friends 1994 gibson les paul custom and it kicked arse through my randall Stock pickups and all.


No, the tension drops the shorter you go so you have to use thicker strings to get same tension as longer scale would. But having short scale and thick strings can be a good thing. You get thicker sound. I prefer that over baritone scale guitars with thin strings. Stoner bands use Les Pauls and SGs for a reason.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#30
Quote by triface


It doesn't matter that their guitar isn't "metal enough".


It might not matter to you but it could matter to someone else. IE the original poster who created this topic asked why his guitar sounds like mud with high gain. I told him why, I also claimed a Les Paul is designed poorly for playing metal. That's a fact, it's not a guitar designed well for high gain or down tunings or shred. The question is why are people getting their panties in a twist from someone simply telling the truth.

Quote by KailM


a Les Paul with its 24.75" scale and fewer frets is NOT that much different than a typical 'shred' guitar. Everything can be changed -- pickups (which usually need to be changed to get a better 'metal' tone on most LPs), and strings for lower tunings.


Fewer frets, no double cut-away, massive Les Paul heel which is not good for higher fret access. Vintage frets which won't be as quick to play on as Jumbo or extra jumbo. Weighs a fukin $hit ton. Typically the Wrong pickups for metal, they're not high output enough. Wrong scale length. No Floyd rose. What's the point in changing the parts, just buy the right guitar in the first place.
#31
Quote by triface
Unless I'm reading it wrong, you're playing in D or C standard. Change your string gauge to compensate, or your strings will all have too little tension. Put on some distortion and there's your mud right there. I believe your guitar comes stock with 0.046-0.010, which is a little thin for down tuning, especially for C.

Use a little less gain when playing. It's very easy to just max it out when playing to get the br00t4lz when first starting out, but you're also bringing with it more mud. Chances are you don't actually need that much gain.

I have no experience with your cable, but unless your cable is atrocious, I think you should be focusing more on the other aspects of your setup because those would play more role in your sound.

I have never played a 15W Line 6 before, so I'll reserve my judgement and not jump on the bandwagon. Tone aside, it sounds a little bit loose to me. Not so much that it'll make you immediately say it's not good for metal, but I think it's noticeable. That's probably part of what you're noticing in your tone.

Your stock pickups, as mentioned above, are also probably part of the reason why it sounds muddy.

I think you should start by having your guitar set up for a higher gauge first, since you're downtuning. I'm of the opinion that the gauge you're using is too small, which will affect your tone immensely. Get the cheap stuff out of the way first, and if that doesn't work, you can start at looking to do some upgrades in your rig.


Well thank you, that help alot, i will take some dunlop heavy core strings
#32
Quote by kingking22

Fewer frets, no double cut-away, massive Les Paul heel which is not good for higher fret access. Vintage frets which won't be as quick to play on as Jumbo or extra jumbo. Weighs a fukin $hit ton. Typically the Wrong pickups for metal, they're not high output enough. Wrong scale length. No Floyd rose. What's the point in changing the parts, just buy the right guitar in the first place.



Will you please shut up now?
Quote by Axelfox
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Mar 3, 2014,
#33
Like the last post, I would try the cheapest stuff first. But I would try isolating the problem. Start by playing the same thing just through the amp. Start clean and if it sounds fine, slowly add gain until you get it up to where you are comfortable. If the problem doesn't come up, then slowly add things, like the program until you identify the problem. If you can't get it to sound right with just the amp on clean, try just the guitar without the amp. At that point, it would either be the amp, guitar or player.
Just work through it in steps.
#34
I use a LP for metal and it's my absolute favorite tone for metal, more than my PRS. Sure it's not the absolute best design for leads, but you can easily get used to it. You're just dead wrong man.
#35
Quote by kingking22
You're talking about professional guitarists with professional gear and more than likely custom guitars. What does this have to do with normal people practicing in their living room on practice gear. The pros use LPs because they're endorsing the brand, it doesn't mean a Les Paul is actually a good metal guitar because it's not.


Euronymous though

banned
#36
what the heck happened to this thread?

i generally prefer a 25.5" scale for metal too, but holy crap, there's a big difference between "25.5" scale is arguably slightly better for metal, everything else being equal" and "THAT MEANS 24.75" SCALE DOESN'T WORK FOR METAL!!!!!"

jeez.

also my sg has pretty big frets.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
Quote by kingking22
100+ metal guitarists which use a Les Paul instead of one of many other guitar brands out there which are making much better suited guitars for the application of metal.

What is that supposed to prove exactly? this doesn't prove anything except that you know 100 guitarists who are using the wrong guitar.

You think because they're getting paid for playing guitar that gives your argument more validation? You think because you can chuck higher gauge strings on a Les Paul in an attempt to combat its scale length, that this will make a Les Paul a good guitar for high gain and metal shred? Poor arguments because whatever you can do to a Les Paul (higher gauge strings, or put in EMG's). There will always be a guitars out there which are much better designed for playing metal.



you my friend are a total idiot that is lost in his own fantasy. a "wrong guitar" lol. WOW such a noob statement. Keep bedroom wanking and giving your infinite guitar wisdom to teh internet forumz.

You keep stating you "don't get paid to play"... is there a reason for this??? Is that somehow cool?
Last edited by cheesefries at Mar 3, 2014,
#38
You're all good at complaining and posting pictures of your favourite wank-a thon guitarists. But not actually any good at posting counter facts; except for "I can name 100 metal guitarists who use a Les Paul". Well I can name three hundred metal guitarists who don't use a Les Paul . I guess that means my argument is three times better.

Quote by Dave_Mc


i generally prefer a 25.5" scale for metal too, but holy crap, there's a big difference between "25.5" scale is arguably slightly better for metal, everything else being equal"


Read the thread. The discussion/argument has less to do with just the scale length and more to do with the actual design of a Les Paul. I've never claimed a Les Paul can't do metal, of course it can do metal. I claimed the OP's tone was probably muddy due to scale length. Even on youtube you can listen to people playing Les Pauls through high gain amps for metal and most of them sound like me taking a shit in the morning. I then highlighted the fact that a LP is a badly designed guitar for metal and this is when people lost it. I can't really say I actually give a F though because I typically enjoy sticking to my guns when I know I'm right. No one else has been able to actually refute anything I've stated with facts so it's all good.

Quote by cheesefries
you my friend are a total idiot that is lost in his own fantasy. a "wrong guitar" lol. WOW such a noob statement. Keep bedroom wanking and giving your infinite guitar wisdom to teh internet forumz.

You keep stating you "don't get paid to play"... is there a reason for this??? Is that somehow cool?


You my friend sound like you're crying. Why so angry? When I read this I imagined someone having a whine in a very high pitched emotional voice, annoying.
Last edited by kingking22 at Mar 3, 2014,
#39
Can Colin please ban this guy?
Quote by kingking22
I can't really say I actually give a F though because I typically enjoy sticking to my guns when I know I'm right.

Comedy gold right here.
Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
I also have to do that. Cottaging this weekend
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Mar 3, 2014,
#40
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Can Colin please ban this guy?

Comedy gold right here.


Chill out a little.
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