#1
Hello UG users, today I thought of the idea of constructing augmented modes
to see what they would sound like, and where I could apply them appropriately,
to maybe bring out more of an abstract feel into some future compositions I do.

I was wonder whether people have come across any of these before and if so could they point me to people who have used them before so I can get an idea how it functions, I still plan on winging it but I didn't just want to do common formulas you would use in Major to do so haha

these....

Modes of Augmented
A,C,C#,D#,F,G#
C,C#,D#,F,G#,A
C#,D#,F,G#,A,C
D#,F,G#,A,C,C#
F,G#,A,C,C#D#
G#,A,C,C#,D#,F
#2
Sorry about the modes deal, but I'm not asking for an in depth explanation really, more so of references to where to find them being used so I can hear the explanation haha
#4
Quote by thewillmeister1
I didn't just want to do common formulas you would use in Major


If you simply use accidentals with the major and minor scales, you will end up with any scale you want inclusimg the ones you listed
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#5
I'm aware I can get these type of sounds with major and minor with substitutions and altered chord types Like -5's +5,7,9,11,13's and such and I guess inversions of all of these, but I was just going to try make modes of other types of scales, using Augmented for it is a little weird just because it's symmetrical but I just wanted to give it a go.
#6
Quote by thewillmeister1
Hello UG users, today I thought of the idea of constructing augmented modes
to see what they would sound like, and where I could apply them appropriately,
to maybe bring out more of an abstract feel into some future compositions I do.

I was wonder whether people have come across any of these before and if so could they point me to people who have used them before so I can get an idea how it functions, I still plan on winging it but I didn't just want to do common formulas you would use in Major to do so haha

these....

Modes of Augmented
A,C,C#,D#,F,G#
C,C#,D#,F,G#,A
C#,D#,F,G#,A,C
D#,F,G#,A,C,C#
F,G#,A,C,C#D#
G#,A,C,C#,D#,F


Hey, you got those wrong. Most of those are the same scale with a different root note. Also they are not the Augmented scale.

Augmented scale is (s=semitones)
3s - 1s - 3s - 1s - 3s - 1s

Using A as the root note that would be A C C# E E# G# A (so your D# should be E)

Looking at modes the way you are, there are only two modes of this scale. (This is similar to most symmetrical scales.)

3s - 1s - 3s - 1s - 3s - 1s

1s - 3s - 1s - 3s - 1s - 3s

However, I don't know any music that utilises these scales.
Si
#7

Start on another finger (other than the middle finger on the root) and now I am playing a mode.
#8
yeah, nothing in this thread so far is a mode. You can make scales based on any interval pattern you want. They're only modes when used harmonically.
#9
there isn't really any merit to this line of thought. it's not going to lead you anywhere.

the fact that you're thinking about this sort of thing indicates to me that your understanding of musical fundamentals is fairly sound but not holistic. spend some time studying and gaining more experience with fundamental concepts and you'll be able to spend your time thinking about ways to expand your knowledge that have more value.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#10
Hi all, what chords are you getting out of these augmented scales? That is what is important.
#11
Think I might stay with the modes of harmonic minor and melodic minor for the more obscure ideas, them not being a symmetrical obviously helps, that's why there is a question mark on the end of then title haha wasn't sure whether you could make modes with a six note scale, because I tried it with the octatonics minus the spanish 8 tone and they would just change into their neighbouring scale. eg whole half in second interval will just be half whole vice versa
#12
I think you misunderstand what modes are. Any scale can be used modally, but that is a fundamentally harmonic idea, and playing "weird" scales off their roots won't necessarily communicate it.

If you want to figure out how to use these scalar concepts, you need to ask yourself what the harmonic context is.

Say you come up with a riff that appears to be based on some weird scale pattern. Well, if you were to write a whole piece of music around it, what would the chords be?

Harmony is the biggest concept here, and literally everything else has to relate to it in a sensible way. Like grammar, there needs to be agreement - If you're in the key of A, you don't have any riffs in "E mixolydian", they're all in A (unless you actually modulate keys, but that's a different discussion).

Harmonic minor has a purpose in normal music, and it is typically confined to dominants resolving to minor chords. You're probably not writing traditional classical or jazz music, so you need to determine what the harmonic setting is for these riffs.

Just take a riff and record it or something, then try different chords under it to see where it leads you. You can even just hum chord roots, if recording isn't an option.
Last edited by cdgraves at Mar 14, 2014,
#13
Well I actually have been writing Jazz and Classical but haven't gotten too far I've so far only gotten through a three part suite for nylon, and a few swings to finish up with an upright player and a drummer

I'd generally use simple harmonic functionalities just using common chord progressions (1,4,5..2,6,4,5..1,2,4,5..1,5,7 ect) to figure out where the strongest character is to the mode obviously chord progressions change depending on the scale formula to cater to the changes in the intervals.

Still thrive that Django Reinhardt sound though, it's just so obscene to figure out, guess I need to learn more of the standards haha
#14
My guess as to the thread-starter's intentions is that he's trying to get an unusual, consistent / cohesive sound for composition.

I think I can understand this motivation. It's very well and true to say "everything is the major scale or minor scale with accidentals", but an accidental is a momentary thing in a piece of music. The idea of thinking in terms of different scales and modes is to maintain the effect or mood throughout the piece.

To me, it's valid - as long as you get the details right.
#15
Quote by AeolianWolf
there isn't really any merit to this line of thought. it's not going to lead you anywhere.

the fact that you're thinking about this sort of thing indicates to me that your understanding of musical fundamentals is fairly sound but not holistic. spend some time studying and gaining more experience with fundamental concepts and you'll be able to spend your time thinking about ways to expand your knowledge that have more value.
Condescension condensation. Drenched.

I think the threadstarter is showing a rather holistic understanding of music theory.

Lets think this through...what is his line of thought? Don't get hung up on semantics we're talking about a holistic understanding. The big picture. The line of thought is asking questions, exploring musical ideas and trying out an idea no matter how absurd it might seem.

What kind of line of thought is that to follow? Curiosity and Exploration. Where could that possibly lead you? What merit could it possibly have? -I have no idea but sign me up...sounds like a trip I'd like to take.

Speaking holistically, what is the point to music theory? The overall grand scheme and purpose of it? If the answer doesn't include themes like innovation, creativity, exploration, and thinking then I'd challenge the validity of any such a claim.
Si
#16
OP, your better off learning the whole tone scale and the modes of the harmonic minor. Augmented major triads are interesting, but once youve learned them in all their inversions (which is what you are doing, not modes) youve kind of spent all the time you need with them
#17
I've learned the whole tone scale and I'm still going through the modes of harmonic minor getting use to chord functionalities and to find an authentic way to voice certain melodies,imply other melodic content within them. I am also learning Harmonic Major and it's modes as well as Hungarian Major and it's modes but those I'm still taking very slow at the moment

On a random note I made a 9 not scale which was (in E) E-F-F#-G#-A-A#-C-D-D#
so that's uh T m2 M2 M3 4 #4/b5 m6 m7 M7
I guess it was some kind of experiment
#19
He received advice to look into something and he's updating to say he has done that. It's not a double post or meaningless bump. Sometimes it's nice to see people following through.

Having said that, willmeister - what's your goal with all these scales?

It's all well and good if your goal is to become a walking scale grimoire but it's time to stop and look at your ultimate musical goals. What is it that you are hoping all this scale knowledge will allow you to achieve?

Then ask yourself, has the study and knowledge of all these scales moved you any closer to your true musical goals? Answer honestly. If so then you need to determine if more scales will get you closer still. If not then you should look at what benefits you've received and then consider if there might be a better way to achieve what it is you want to achieve with your instrument.
Si
#20
Quote by 20Tigers
Hey, you got those wrong. Most of those are the same scale with a different root note. Also they are not the Augmented scale.

Augmented scale is (s=semitones)
3s - 1s - 3s - 1s - 3s - 1s

Using A as the root note that would be A C C# E E# G# A (so your D# should be E)

Looking at modes the way you are, there are only two modes of this scale. (This is similar to most symmetrical scales.)

3s - 1s - 3s - 1s - 3s - 1s

1s - 3s - 1s - 3s - 1s - 3s

However, I don't know any music that utilises these scales.


This. There would only be two different "modes"

It would be interesting to see how you establish A as your tonic.
#21
Quote by thewillmeister1
I've learned the whole tone scale and I'm still going through the modes of harmonic minor getting use to chord functionalities and to find an authentic way to voice certain melodies,imply other melodic content within them. I am also learning Harmonic Major and it's modes as well as Hungarian Major and it's modes but those I'm still taking very slow at the moment

On a random note I made a 9 not scale which was (in E) E-F-F#-G#-A-A#-C-D-D#
so that's uh T m2 M2 M3 4 #4/b5 m6 m7 M7
I guess it was some kind of experiment


Have you actually made any music with this knowledge?
#22
the chords that are within the augmented scale could well be starting points for using the modes of the pivot chords and the other chords that are formed from the scale..ie the three major chords in the C augmented scale - C E Ab .. treating them as "keys" al la Coltrane you have all the modes within these keys...then the augmented scale also produces three minor chords C Eb Ab .. now..treating them as keys..you could explore their harmonic and melodic variations and the modes they produce .. example..play the third and fourth mode of the C melodic minor against Cmaj7...may sound a bit strange...but play a decending C maj7 arpeggio B G E C and then flat the E - (the first five notes of "Giant Steps") and it may open some doors for you..also try the chords produced by the C melodic scale against Cmaj7 Emaj7 and Abmaj7..alot of possibilities from just six notes
#23
Quote by MapOfYourHead
Have you actually made any music with this knowledge?


This is what I'm wondering. It seems like sometimes people get more focused on guitar "tricks" rather than making music.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#24
I have gotten better with what I want and that is figuring out altered chords a little more naturally and certain slash chords, most of the other things are related to leads (not shred haha) which I'm still trying to work on really.

It has also helped my improvisation due to knowing more about certain intervals being altered to apply a different sound (maybe even within pitch axis theory).

But yeah I'm closer to my goals (which is really to just play more, and more interesting/obscure stuff)