#1
If you may remember I've already made a couple of threads on this topic but I'm still undecided. I thought I was decided on a RM100KH but I don't think I want to go down the module path since I still need to buy other gear and not spend hundreds on modules.

I'm still considering a DSL100/50 and maybe some Orange amps but not sure what else. For my own sound and style of music I'd like to say somewhere between Alice in Chains and Tool type tones so it would need to do that as well as have a nice-ish warm clean tone and do classic rock crunch and blues-y type stuff for bedroom playing. For reference, if I could choose any amp it would probably be an Uberschall or VH4 but obviously they're way too expensive. My budget for amp only is around the cost of a DSL used here (Australia) so about 800-1000.

I'm also not sure if I should go 4x12 or 2x12. I like the Orange PPC412 cabs but I think that may be overkill for bedroom playing and moving around a 50kg cab would be a pain I'm sure, especially up and down the stairs in my house.
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#2
1x12 is overkill for a bedroom. More speakers simply add dynamic headroom for a big (loudass) punch when gigging live, but don't significantly affect guitar tone. I love the tone of a dimed Marshall amp but have never been a fan of their clean tones. They never really get there IMO. I am a Mesa groupie because they do both very well. Give em a look.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#3
I can't disagree more on the more speakers not mattering. I run two 4x12s and a 2x12 at home. The difference in the bass response and depth of the sound is pretty big to my ears. That being said, get a 2x12. Theres not nearly as much difference, at least to my ears, between a 2x12 and 4x12 as there is between a 2x12 and 1x12, so a 2x12 is a nice compromise.

Also, I doubt Mesa will be an option for you there. A DSL would be my first recommendation, with a JCM900 SL-X or MKIII after, if you don't mind one channel.


EDIT: Typo fixed
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
Last edited by classicrocker01 at Mar 20, 2014,
#4
Get a used RM100 with modules you like.
Then...
You want new modules?
You buy them!
You don't want new modules?
Well don't get other modules.

I wouldn't say a cab could be an overkill since bigger cabs help spread the sound and make stuff sound bigger, they don't raise the volume that much.
I personally think 4x12s aren't a big step up from 2x12s as far as the sound projection goes, but it's really up to you so if you like the sound of it more than the 2x12's by any means get that.

Anyway, 4x12s usually have wheels so they are preferred by some to be carried around to 2x12s which you have to lift.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#5
I have a feeling a closed back 2x12 should be ok. JCM900 is too much of a one trick pony I think and Randall is out of the question... Most Mesas would be too expensive too unfortunately, maybe Express, F series and 50cal stuff might be doable though....

Are there any Orange amps that might suit?
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
Last edited by Badmotorfingers at Mar 20, 2014,
#6
x2 on the used RG.

Also an older DSL is a good choice. Pretty flexible amp.

2x12's for the win for home. 4x12's aren't over kill. You have a volume knob for a reason.
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
See, it's important that people clarify when they say "metal", because I pretty much always assume they are a Cannibal Corpse fanboi.
Last edited by R45VT at Mar 20, 2014,
#7
Any thoughts on a 50caliber? I know Pepper used one in CoC and he has killer tone on those albums, but not sure if it's what I'm looking for.
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#8
Mesa's are very versatile amps. 50cal. seems a pretty cool amp for a lot of different styles( clean and even metal).
I use an express 5:50+ which is awesome for practice (5 watt mode) and live with a 2x12 cab.
But its a little too expensive
#9
50 cal is a nice amp and available for reasonable $$ used.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#10
A 2x12 is probably the best compromise available.

I'm curious about your not wanting the RM100 though? They are available loaded (3 modules) in your price range, so why would you need to buy more modules?

I note that Cathbard, who is a gear snob of the highest order, has fallen in love with the one he purchased recently.

The ONLY reason I don't own one is because I've decided my next amp is a Kemper Profiler.

Nothing against Mesa, they make awesome amps, but the RM will do Mesa...and Marshall...and Fender etc etc.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#11
Well the problem is the good modded modules cost like 3-400 each and I think I won't ever be truly satisfied with it because it won't be the 'real' thing and I'm more of a plug and play type, I just like to dial in a good tone and leave it. don't really fiddle too much unless I'm going from like metal to blues.

seriously doubt you could pull this tone out of a randall :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaaA0K7RuUg
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#12
Quote by Badmotorfingers
Well the problem is the good modded modules cost like 3-400 each and I think I won't ever be truly satisfied with it because it won't be the 'real' thing and I'm more of a plug and play type, I just like to dial in a good tone and leave it. don't really fiddle too much unless I'm going from like metal to blues.

seriously doubt you could pull this tone out of a randall :P



Your preconceptions do you no favors, but it's your money.

The longer I post here, the more I realize that 'tone' isn't in the fingers OR the gear, it's in the perception...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#13
Quote by classicrocker01
I can't disagree more on the more speakers not mattering. I run two 4x12s and a 2x12 at home. The difference in the bass response and depth of the sound is pretty big to my ears. That being said, get a 2x12. Theres not nearly as much difference, at least to my ears, between a 2x12 and 4x12 as there is between a 2x12 and 1x12, so a 2x12 is a nice compromise.


More speakers always matter but maybe not for the reasons you think. I suspect what you are describing is the effect of increased dynamic headroom when you move more air and the Fletcher-Munson curve (the way we perceive changes in sound). A thiele aligned 1x12 cab will produce every bit as much deep bass as a 4x12 but the 4x12 moves a lot more air. We perceive that big thump from a 4x12 as almost punctuation in the language of guitar. If you need the dynamic headroom for the big thump, you probably need a 4x12. Maybe not in your bedroom though...

This is why a lot of bass players like a 4x10 cab. It's punchy. Big thump. An 18" cab will produce much deeper bass but without the punch of a 4x10. Fletcher-Munson

Sometimes a 4x12 is required kit for the band image. It's ok if that is what you need to complete the look that you are a serious guitarist. Personally I will always take a well designed 1x12 cab and mic it for the masses. Same effect, less moving and storage, and let the house system do the dynamic headroom heavy lifting. YMMV
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Mar 20, 2014,
#14
I don't think you'd have that kind of problem you're afraid of with the RM100.
I mean you can get one already loaded as Arby suggested, and that'd work just like any other amp.
Then if you decide you wanna change a module you can get one, you can find good ones for $200 and they will most likely sound pretty good.

Anyway, don't go for a mesa express, they don't have near enough gain to do what you want.

As for the cab, 4x12 don't only produce a bit more volume - not a lot really, though a way in which they work "better" than 2x12s is that they spread the sound.
It's not that much about how much air you're moving, it's about where that air is coming from.
If it's a 1x12 it's coming from a single source, plus the reflections.
If it's a 4x12 it's coming from 4 sources pointed in different directions so you get a hell of a lot more reflections and the thing sound fuller and wider and stuff.

Then gimme some help here: how do the fletcher-munson curves apply here?
Because that's a diagram about how we perceive the loudness of different frequencies at different SPLs, and If I'm right a cab with 2 speakers vs a cab with 1 speaker will push more air "in the same way" - it will emit sounds of the same frequencies, thus raise the resulting SPL according to the pan law.
The thing will be compensated by the user turning down the volume to achieve the same perceived volume, resulting in just a wider sound because of the reflections thing and the air pushed by more sources.
So what am I missing here?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#15
The good modded modules cost like 300+ each and I'd need to buy like 3 of them and that is just way too much money.

I guess I'm still looking at:
DSL
50 Caliber
Orange Rockeverb/Thunderverb maybe? might be too much of a sludgey sound though I think
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#16
... I think I will just go for DSL
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#17
If you can get a Mesa Rectoverb or Tremoverb, do it. I think the Rectoverb would be the best tonal balance between your wants.

If you can't, the DSL is a fine option. I just feel it's a bit too far on the Marshally side for Tool tones. I'd rather have a Rec for that, if I can't have a Diezel.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#18
Are they anything like a regular dual rec? Because while it's kind of cool the typical Dual Rec nu-metal kind of sound is way too overdone imo. Like SoaD's Toxicity album for a good example of that typical saggy kind of sound.

I have a feeling they'd probably be too expensive anyway.
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#19
No. Regular recs have pretty uninspiring cleans, very meh crunch, and a pretty signature high gain sound.

The Rectoverb and Tremoverb improve on all of that, and they have more tonal options and modes.

They typically only go for $50-100 more than regular Recs here in the US, but I know availability and pricing over in AU is in a pretty sad state. Just look around.

I'm not sure what the exchange rate is at the moment, or if you guys have crazy import taxes or not, but here are a few things I just found on the Bay with a quick search:

Rectoverb 112 - $255, 16H left http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Single-Rectifier-Rectoverb-50w-112-combo-Guitar-Amp-/291104089867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c727e70b

Rectoverb - $725, 1D6H left http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Single-Rectifier-Rect-O-Verb-50w-Head-Guitar-Amp-/201054411319?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecfc6da37

Rectoverb - $860 BIN http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Rect-O-Verb-50-Single-Rectifier-Amplifier-Head-Rectoverb-Solo-/351028647364?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51baf015c4
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#20
None of them ship to Australia... and I've looked around a bit but none seem to be on sale here on a few trading/gear websites. A couple are but they're way too expensive (~2000 for 2x12 combo).

Last one, what about a JVM205H? Obviously the JVM has more options and features but how do they (DSL) compare in tone?
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#21
A JVM would be better than a DSL for what you want out of it.


Man foreign markets are weird. You can get a JVM but not a 'Verb? Topsy turvy man.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#22
I will look into a JVM.

JVM205H for DSL money
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#23
Not a great fan of the JVM. I'd grab a DSL and a nice closed back 2x12. Stick the right tubes in a DSL and they sound great. Just steer clear of any made prior to 2003.


There's a reason why Aussie rock is so predominantly Marshall. Marshalls were always about the only good amp anybody could afford. Even after they got rich the keep using Marshalls because, well, that's the sound of Aussie rock.
Nobody uses Mesas, you just don't see them. A Mark V is like $5k here.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Mar 21, 2014,
#24
I may go and try a couple out tomorrow if I can so that should decide it.

I think Wizard would have a say about the sound of aussie rock :p
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#25
Wizard? Compared to Marshall? Introduce me to your drug dealer.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#26
Well I meant because AC/DC use them nowadays when everybody thinks they use Marshall. I'm sure they still use some Marshall but I believe the Wizards are their main live amps.
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#27
There's more to Aussie rock than ACDC - and when they were good, they used Marshalls anyway.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Mar 21, 2014,
#28
I can name one other quite popular Aussie Rock band that also uses Wizards might be more too
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#29
Do you want me to start naming ones that used Marshalls? I think I'd have you beat somehow.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#30
hehe okay you win

and I saw your post in the who to listen to thread but I 'can't' post in there... I remember when I was reading up about the modules some people said it takes about 3 months for them to get their modded modules. not sure if that was jaded faith or salvation though, might have been both
Quote by Cathbard
You, my man, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Quote by Knarrenheino
You hold your guitar upwards from your lap like an erect phallus and tell me I have problems?
#31
I bought a Salvation module before but it was one already built and actually already in the country. This latest one, I sent him a module. I wasn't expecting it quickly but I was expecting some correspondence on the matter by now. Not panicking yet though.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band