#1
So im a little new with guitar i can play any song in the G, C or D Key but that is pretty much it. There is a piano player that wants me to play with her and she gave me a song that was in G. I was so relieved . But now she transposed the song to E flat!!!!!! . When i got the music i was like .

Plz help is there some place i can put my capo so that i can play chords that im comfortable with but still be in the right key?
Last edited by swgmstr417 at Mar 20, 2014,
#2
just tune down to E flat would be the handiest thing, most likely. EDIT: assuming you can already also play in E.

also E flat would be awkward on piano. unless she's a badass i suppose. or she did it to suit the singer.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#3
Like I said i'm new at this I don't know how to tune differently than classic tuning. and yes she did do it to suit the singer.
#4
Just tune all your strings one semitone down. The guitar will play the same (using all the same chord shapes etc.), just it'll sound one semitone lower in pitch.

Do you have a tuner?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
I have a tuning app on my Ipad but it only does one kind of tuning and costs money to do it other ways p.s. i'm broke
Last edited by swgmstr417 at Mar 20, 2014,
#6
Ah right, no worries.

Get your guitar in tune normally in E.

Then tune your A string (5th) to the fourth fret on your low E (6th) string.

Then tune your D string to the 5th fret on the A string.

Then tune your G string to the 5th fret on the D string.

Then tune your B string to the 4th fret on the G string.

Then tune your high E string to the 5th fret on the B string.

Finally tune your low E string to be the same pitch as the high E string (it'll sound lower as it's 2 octaves below, but you know what I mean- you'll be lowering the pitch of it slightly so it's the same note two octaves below the high E string).

Or if you're with your piano-playing friend you could just tune to the piano.

Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb (from low to high strings).

EDIT: actually if you trawl youtube or somewhere like that they may well have tuning reference pitches for Eb tuning, that might be even handier. EDIT #2: yeah this might be handier than the guff I wrote above: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZNGfZWkI28
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Mar 20, 2014,
#7
Could I interject the famous "plan B",

Eb is most often, (and IMO), most easily reached on the guitar, by simply placing a capo on the 3rd fret, then playing in C.

C = Eb (I)

F = Ab (IV)

G = Bb (V)

Am = Cm

Dm = Fm

(And so forth).

Country singers often use a the capo at 3rd fret, to yield the keys of Bb, Eb, and F!


Actually, a capo on the 1st fret will also easily yield Eb.

At this position, you would play the chords to D major. D (I), G (IV), A (V).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Mar 20, 2014,
#8
good call, that might well be even easier
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#12
I don't see how that is possible, how can F with capo 3 be the same as F with no capo? Especially since Ab is F with capo 3
#13
In the key of Eb, the 1, 4, 5 chords are: Eb (I), Ab (IV), & Bb (V). In the key of Eb, "F" is a minor chord.! It is the 2 (ii) chord in the key. That would be played using the Dm open fingering. Capo on 3rd fret, and count up the chromatic scale, Dm (1st fret), Ebm (2nd fret), Em (3rd fret), the Fm at the 4th fret. As you have a capo on the 3rd, it's why I'm counting the F minor chord as "4th fret" , because it where you 1 st finger goes.

It's (Fm) actually an open chord, relating to the capo on the 3rd.

You have to study the chromatic scale, in order for you to make the most sense of what happens to chord names when the capo is on. You can't escape knowing that part of musical theory to rename the chords, and understand how open chord "shapes" relate to key patterns.

The capo is an excellent tool to deal with keys which have flats in their signature.

A guitar's strings, are named after keys with all sharps!

When you use a capo on keys with flats in the signature, the open strings of the guitar, now harmonize with those scales. The capo enables you to strum through the chord changes of flat keys, with hardly any worry of hitting a dissonant note.
#15
Quote by swgmstr417
I don't see how that is possible, how can F with capo 3 be the same as F with no capo? Especially since Ab is F with capo 3


When the capo is in place, usually chords are named as they would appear in the open position. (You would be playing a "C" chord, in shape, but with a capo 3 frets the actual chord being played, would be E flat).

For example, let's say we have a song in E major, with the chords E (I), A (IV), & B (V).

Now if we put a capo on the 2nd fret, the chords for the key of E would be, D (E or I), G (A or IV), & A, (B or V). The guitar itself is now 2 semitones higher, but the chords are "shaped" for the key of D major.

Particularly notice the the capo is acting as a barre, and the A major chord becomes B major.

So, working with a capo, open chord names are used for what shape to use, and position has to be changed to effect key, or actual chord name in relation to the fret the capo is on.

Which is why I suggested that learning the chromatic scale is of maximum importance, so as to be able to name the scale and chords, and to be able to to establish when the overall tuning is changed with the capo.

Playing with a capo on a different fret, yields an interesting arrangement tool for 2 guitars.

For example, guitar 1 plays in G major, (G, C, D), the second guitarist places a capo on the 5th fret. The 2nd guitar's G, C, D chords would be played like this: D (now G), G (now C), and A (which is now D).

That's the most coherent explanation I can come up with.

With some practice learning the basic chords in each key, and the chromatic scale, pretty soon you'll be doing amazing key changes by instinct, and on the fly.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Mar 21, 2014,
#16
Thnx so much! I play in a whole band of guitars and one piano so that will be ultra helpful! And it'll also spice things up a little
#18
So what your saying is that if there is a F in the song I should play Fm chord shape in capo 3?
#19
Quote by benjaminjtimm
A barred F like normal, I would assume.
Ben, NO. With a capo on the 3rd fret F major is the D major open shape!

Quote by swgmstr417
So what your saying is that if there is a F in the song I should play Fm chord shape in capo 3?
Ben is wrong, please pay him no mind.

Please check out this tab: http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/j/joan_baez/diamonds_and_rust_crd.htm The song, as originally played by Joan Baez, is in the key of F minor!

That approach is pretty much standard procedure, as long as the music specifically states that it is, "for guitar". Most pop books, even if they're, "for piano", usually includes, "chords for guitar".

However, the chord shapes are pictured, and named as they would be played open. You just slap a capo on the 1st fret, and you go from the key of E minor to F minor. (one half step musically).

Guitarists are catered to, and humored to death, with special notations, tabs, chord diagrams, and so on.

If you were to pick up your local church's hymnal, you'd be in for a rude awakening. Guess what, all that's there is the music on the staff, and you'd have to be able to read it.

Many people think a capo is cheating, it's not. It's a tool, and a valuable one at that.

Using it to invert chord shapes, to play the same key at a different fret, does require a healthy knowledge of basic theory.

But unless you have multiple guitars, it's ever so much easier than tuning up or down, especially when you have others waiting on you.

Leo Kotke uses a number of different exotic tunings in his live performances. He also has a roadie that brings him out a different guitar, practically every other song.

I know moveable chord shapes that emulate open chords, so that I can use them to determine if a capo is being used in a song. Once you have the position figured, you stick the capo on... And wah-la, you're there.

When you run into unfamiliar musical terms, Wikipedia is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_scale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic

If you're considering playing together with other instruments, (IMHO), you should learn to read music. I'm not talking about being able to play every thing ever written at a first glace, but rather being able to figure out melody lines and chord shape from notation.

Something else you could do, is post your, "where can I get free theory lessons", question, over in the "Musician's Talk" sub-forum. I pretty sure they have some decent sources bookmarked.

One of the most famous songs by the Beatles, "Here Comes the Sun", can't be mimicked without a capo. Keith Richards is forever capoing way up the neck for songs like, "Street Fighting Man".
Last edited by Captaincranky at Mar 23, 2014,
#20
I know how to read notes . . . When I'm picking. What I don't know is how to convert the notes into chords and play it from there