#1
Sup guys. Im looking to buy a new rig for live. I play metal similar to Veil of maya, Born of Osiris, all that type of stuff.

An easy and cheap rig to go with I see is a 5150 or 6505 with a mesa cab.

Im wondering what the next step up of each of the components in that rig.

#2
You're not really going to see a step "up" from that combination, but rather different alternatives. A 6505/6505+ through a Mesa cab sounds monstrous and really does an excellent job for your genre of metal. There's a reason so many bands use that combination -- it rips.

That's not to say there aren't other options. But most of your alternatives will cost 2x as much, and may just sound different, not necessarily better.
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#3
First off, use the amp's distortion, not a pedal. That amp has some killer tones on it, and I'm always confused by people playing expensive tube amps but getting all of their tone from a $50 pedal. Anywho, to have a full setup you'll need a decent pedal board. I'd recommend a tuner pedal, noise gate, tube screamer, and maybe a parametric EQ of some sort. Don't use actual 'effects' other than a reverb or delay, or maaaaaybe an octaver or looper or something if you want to get atmospheric, because we've already heard most effect in every possible manner imaginable.
Israel is a terrorist state.
#4
Quote by KailM
You're not really going to see a step "up" from that combination, but rather different alternatives. A 6505/6505+ through a Mesa cab sounds monstrous and really does an excellent job for your genre of metal. There's a reason so many bands use that combination -- it rips.
I can do better than that

I'm so happy so much people are getting into djent

Anyway, the mesa rectifier cab DOES kill.
At this point you could get an axe fx + a carvin 50/50 + some other funny rack mounted stuff, or if you don't fancy that kinda stuff you could look into an ENGL Powerball II.
That's real killer.

Oh, yeah, a boost and an MXR 10 band EQ if you get the Powerball instead of the AXE.
Name's Luca.

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#5
Bogner Uberschall + Mills Acoustics cab
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#6
Vh4?
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#7
Look at the Engl Fireball 100. I've been looking at it recently for those tones.

Or an Axe FX II.

Very few amps will cut it for that modern core sound. I've personally found that most high gain high end/boutique amps really don't deliver that tightness or low mid spike that is necessary.

Sure they'll work in the studio, but... anything can work in the studio.

Quote by KailM
You're not really going to see a step "up" from that combination, but rather different alternatives. A 6505/6505+ through a Mesa cab sounds monstrous and really does an excellent job for your genre of metal. There's a reason so many bands use that combination -- it rips.

That's not to say there aren't other options. But most of your alternatives will cost 2x as much, and may just sound different, not necessarily better.


+311, I agree with all of this 100%.

I've owned a 5150 and a 6505 in the past, FWIW.

Always been able to get those tones way easier out of my Vypyrs than the real thing, FWIW. The Vypyrs lack that real just... raw power the 6505s have though. A cranked Vypyr Tube sounds great, but a cranked 6505 will still just crush it into the ground.

But the 6505 needs all kinds of noise gating and boosting, and they only work well if that's the only tone you want. Forget trying to run FX with it or trying to use it's loop to kill volume or getting a great clean tone out of it.
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Last edited by Offworld92 at Mar 27, 2014,
#8
Quote by JD Close
Don't use actual 'effects' other than a reverb or delay, or maaaaaybe an octaver or looper or something if you want to get atmospheric, because we've already heard most effect in every possible manner imaginable.

Well you're boring.

Also if you want an eq, don't get a parametric, get a 10 band or something.

I can't really comment about amps for that genre though. I agree that they won't necessarily be 'better' than the 5150, just different.
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#9
Quote by JD Close
First off, use the amp's distortion, not a pedal. That amp has some killer tones on it, and I'm always confused by people playing expensive tube amps but getting all of their tone from a $50 pedal. Anywho, to have a full setup you'll need a decent pedal board. I'd recommend a tuner pedal, noise gate, tube screamer, and maybe a parametric EQ of some sort. Don't use actual 'effects' other than a reverb or delay, or maaaaaybe an octaver or looper or something if you want to get atmospheric, because we've already heard most effect in every possible manner imaginable.


who asked about any of this? don't use fx really just cuz you can't come up with a new sound doesn't mean the rest of us can't. telling a guitar player not to try seems like really bad and narrow minded advice.
#10
Wouldn't use a ubershall/twin jet nor a vh4.
Great amps, but the first one isn't that good for djent and the second is just made for other stuff, it doesn't work for that.
Name's Luca.

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Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#11
6505 is a classic but if you want something different there is always Peavey XXX. Or if you are curious about other brands there is Engl Fireball/powerball or blackmore/savage (though i am unsure how well blackmore "djents"). Or the new Randall Diavlo which should be really tight. You have a lot of choices other than the common 6505.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
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Cort EVL-K47B

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#12
Quote by monwobobbo
who asked about any of this? don't use fx really just cuz you can't come up with a new sound doesn't mean the rest of us can't. telling a guitar player not to try seems like really bad and narrow minded advice.


The original question was what could he get to make his rig better. He had guitar - amp, so I mentioned the pedals he'll need, especially if he's using a 6505+. Any time I hear a chorus or a flanger, I never think it's necessary. Reverbs and Delays can add a whole new dimension to your music, but most people, myself included, see a bunch of fun space-y pedals and just start stomping on stuff until it stops sounding like a guitar, then stomp on even more until it stops sounding good at all
Israel is a terrorist state.
#13
Quote by JD Close
The original question was what could he get to make his rig better. He had guitar - amp, so I mentioned the pedals he'll need, especially if he's using a 6505+. Any time I hear a chorus or a flanger, I never think it's necessary. Reverbs and Delays can add a whole new dimension to your music, but most people, myself included, see a bunch of fun space-y pedals and just start stomping on stuff until it stops sounding like a guitar, then stomp on even more until it stops sounding good at all



Go back and read the beginning of this thread. TS made no mention of actually owning the rig in question, nor did he ever ask ANYTHING about effects.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#14
Quote by KailM
Go back and read the beginning of this thread. TS made no mention of actually owning the rig in question, nor did he ever ask ANYTHING about effects.


I got that. But if he's going to be using one, he's not going to get a good sound at all without having at least a noise suppressor, and some other pedals. Also, he should remember before he buys that rig that it's really only good for one type of tone, and that if he wants a clean tone or a crunch or anything other than blistering metal at all he'll need a second amp connected with an ABY.

He wants to know how he could make that rig better, and I'm giving generalized answers to the very general question given by the TS
Israel is a terrorist state.
#15
Quote by JD Close
I got that. But if he's going to be using one, he's not going to get a good sound at all without having at least a noise suppressor, and some other pedals. Also, he should remember before he buys that rig that it's really only good for one type of tone, and that if he wants a clean tone or a crunch or anything other than blistering metal at all he'll need a second amp connected with an ABY.

He wants to know how he could make that rig better, and I'm giving generalized answers to the very general question given by the TS


brought to you from a guy that has a Marshall MG listed in his profile. you'd be suprised what you can get out of any amp set up with some experimenting. try it some time.
#16
Keep the Mesa cab.

Look into anything ENGL, Soldano Hot Rod 100+ (or a JCA100h if you're cheap), maybe also a Dual Rec but that too will sound like everyone else, Carvin V3, and a VH4 if you can afford it.
#18
Quote by Ian_the_fox
Look into anything ENGL, Soldano Hot Rod 100+ (or a JCA100h if you're cheap), maybe also a Dual Rec but that too will sound like everyone else, Carvin V3, and a VH4 if you can afford it.
Everyone of these amps are good, but you can't djent for shit with a VH4, nor with an hot rod 100+ nor with a carvin v3, nor for your life you can get a good djent tone out of a dual recto.
Nor from anything mesa actually, so I wouldn't get a mark either.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#19
Quote by Spambot_2
Everyone of these amps are good, but you can't djent for shit with a VH4, nor with an hot rod 100+ nor with a carvin v3, nor for your life you can get a good djent tone out of a dual recto.
Nor from anything mesa actually, so I wouldn't get a mark either.
Is something fucking wrong with you? You can get a Djent sound out of literraly any decent modern high again amp (preferrably not British-voiced) with the right gear and actually knowing what the hell you are doing.

ESPECIALLY the VH4, I honestly can't believe you were mental enough to say that one was incapable:

#20
You don't even need a lot of gain.

Thing is, you need a tight sound, which a VH4 doesn't really have.
You need a metallic sound, the VH4 doesn't really have that either.
Passing it through a computer and mixing it with a song that already has the right guitar sound underneath you could make lotsa stuff sound like djent, but a VH4 doesn't really do that out of the box.

A powerball 2 on the other hand can make a vintage spec'd tele djent without any pedals.

But then again you could say a cheap fast track doesn't have enough gain on tap to make a dynamic microphone sound good...
For the sake of clarity, the reason why that's kinda (entirely) false is that my cheap fast track, and the saffire pro 40 DisarmGoliath was talking about for what it matters, have pre's with enough gain to overdrive the AD converters, whatever dynamic or condenser or ribbon microphone you plug into them.
So basically you'll just get more distortion with more gain.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
Last edited by Spambot_2 at Mar 28, 2014,