#1
Hello

in metal, particularly technical death metal and grindcore, it's not uncommon to make use of dissonant or atonal scales and note progressions alongside more consonant parts, generally the chorus or the solos

but when you look at "modern" music, meaning pop/dance and so forth (even if it's not modern by chronological standards) you never see them use dissonance

do you think that could evolve and someday we will see Taylor Swift incorporating atonal / dissonant progressions ?

conversely, can you imagine a metal song played for 3 to 4 minutes in only consonant scales ? maybe iron maiden but it would get cheesy very fast i think

thanks
#2
The difference between those two examples is the audience, at least partially.

Taylor Swift type of music is supposed to be easy to listen, have catchy lyrics, etc. The idea is that the song will make a lot of money in a short amount of time. This is why most pop/dance songs use exactly the same basic formula as all the other pop/dance songs. It's a formula that works.

Technical Death Metal and Grindcore...there's not a worry about easy listening. The idea is brutal yet complex music. (Although, the complex part goes out the Window for a lot of the shitty Grindcore bands.) Some Technical Death Metal bands also try to bring in a sense of beauty, so the music is stirring in that manner. Grindcore doesn't give a shit about beauty at all, obviously.

Honestly, I much prefer the use of a certain amount of dissonance. It makes things more interesting. Prog Metal (the better bands, anyway) tends to make tasteful use of both consonance and dissonance. PM me for a few recs, if you want.
#3
Quote by Morsay

conversely, can you imagine a metal song played for 3 to 4 minutes in only consonant scales ? maybe iron maiden but it would get cheesy very fast i think

Insomnium regularly does it for longer, and people love them.

Dissonance/consonance is only one of many elements that make up a song. Shoehorning in dissonance for the sake of having it in there, with no regard for whether it fits with the rest of the song, is a scrub move. Musical techniques are nowhere near as important as the prudence not to use them.
#4
interesting question...i doubt that would happen. you really only get into dissonance when you want to explore music for all that it can be, which most pop fans aren't interested in doing.
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#5
Quote by Morsay

do you think that could evolve and someday we will see Taylor Swift incorporating atonal / dissonant progressions ?


maybe, but i kind of doubt it. or maybe a little bit, but probably not too much (I mean I'm sure in the 50s and 60s people thought distortion would never be used in pop songs and now it is, all the time).

metal's kind of an acquired taste, and i quite like (not too heavy) metal and even I don't like the stuff where's there's no melody and only cookie monster, for example. I guess what I'm trying to say is that compared to the average music listener/layperson I'm kind of a metalhead but compared to actual metalheads, I'm not. if the metal stuff I like (metallica, megadeth, pantera, killswitch engage and similar) is too heavy for the average listener, the far heavier stuff is likely to be even worse.

In case that sounds like I'm being really pretentious or condescending, I'm not. I really like taylor swift. Far more than heavier types of metal, actually. I like stuff that rocks but which also has melody, most of the time. Just because it's "easy to listen to" doesn't mean it's bad or the easy way out... maybe it's the opposite. I wish I could write songs that everyone liked. And there's also a fine line between an acquired taste and stuff which just does genuinely suck...
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#6
Quote by Cavalcade
Insomnium regularly does it for longer, and people love them.

That's because they do it so damn well. *cue tears of joy*
#7
There's no such thing as a dissonant or consonant scale, or an atonal one. A scale is just a list of notes.

Consonance, dissonance, and tonality are qualities of harmony, and pretty much any music worth listening to uses them to build and release tension. Even 20th century music that eschews conventional tonality still relies on both consonance and dissonance to move the music along.

Those terms can also have very technical definitions, beyond the subjective sound of an individual harmony. In that sense, dissonant means that a harmony has a very strong tendency to resolve, and consonance means harmonic stability.

Like a weight dangling from thin string, it wants to release its energy and find a resting place. That stable resting place is consonance. The interval of a perfect 4th, for example, is considered dissonant when used harmonically because it has a strong tendency to resolve (usually down to the major 3rd). Minor triads are completely consonant.
Last edited by cdgraves at Mar 28, 2014,
#8
I think if you pass off the top 40 stuff as crap simply because it's on the top 40, you are genuinely missing out on some good, interesting music.
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#9
Quote by AlanHB
I think if you pass off the top 40 stuff as crap simply because it's on the top 40, you are genuinely missing out on some good, interesting music.


Indeed, the stuff is usually made by very savvy musicians. The tonic chord in Pharrell Williams' "Happy" is F7#9, which any guitarist will tell you is deliciously dissonant. Steely Dan, though no longer Top 40, is replete with bizarre harmonies, such as Maj7#5 chords acting as dominants.

Dissonance is everywhere if you know to listen for more than harshness.
#11
Quote by cdgraves
Indeed, the stuff is usually made by very savvy musicians. The tonic chord in Pharrell Williams' "Happy" is F7#9, which any guitarist will tell you is deliciously dissonant. Steely Dan, though no longer Top 40, is replete with bizarre harmonies, such as Maj7#5 chords acting as dominants.

Dissonance is everywhere if you know to listen for more than harshness.


that hat he wears is pretty dissonant
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?