#1
Hey everyone. I have a quick question, and hope that some of you can answer it.
Recently I stumpled upon a chord that looked like this:
Eø7
I have no idea what the ø stands for. It's not that I'm not familiar with the letter, since I'm from Denmark and it's a commonly used letter.
But in a musical context I have no idea what it means. How does it differ from a regular 7 chord? And how to I create these chords on the guitar?

- Kris
#2
The symbol represents a half-diminished chord. A half-diminished chord is made up of the root, minor third, flat fifth, and minor seventh. For example, an Eø7 is made up of E, G, Bb and D.
#3
Doing a quick search it seems like it can also be written: E7(b5), indicating the flat fifth.
I suppose that is correct?

Edit:
Seems like there are a lot of inversions/variations on how to play it.
What is the most common shape for such a chord (preferably barre chord/moveable shape), with the root on the E and/or A string?
Last edited by KrisHQ at Mar 30, 2014,
#5
Quote by KrisHQ
Doing a quick search it seems like it can also be written: E7(b5), indicating the flat fifth.
I suppose that is correct?

Edit:
Seems like there are a lot of inversions/variations on how to play it.
What is the most common shape for such a chord (preferably barre chord/moveable shape), with the root on the E and/or A string?


The two most common ways to play are: Root E 7th fret of the A string, Bb 8th fret of the D string, D 7th fret of the G String, G 8th fret of the B string. That shape can then be moved all over.

The other common half diminished shape, with the base on the E string would a a little awkward to play, at least in the key of E, because the root would be on the 12th fret. So I'll explain the shape in G instead. It would be G on the 3rd fret E string, f on the 3rd fret D String, Bb 3rd Fret G string and Db on the second fret B string.
Originally posted by arrrgg
When my grandpa comes over to visit, after his shower, he walks around naked to dry off
Last edited by Led man32 at Mar 30, 2014,
#6
0 1 2 0 3 0 is one. But you can figure it out by yourself. The notes in Em7b5 chord are E, G, Bb and D.

Try x 7 8 7 8 x
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#7
Quote by Elintasokas
Em7b5

This. E7b5 would have a major third.

As for movable shapes, I like to use:

Dm7b5:
e|-x-|
B|-6-|
G|-5-|
D|-6-|
A|-5-|
E|-x-|

Am7b5:
e|-x-|
B|-x-|
G|-5-|
D|-5-|
A|-6-|
E|-5-|

Am7b5:
e|-5-|
B|-7-|
G|-5-|
D|-7-|
A|-6-|
E|-5-|

Gm7b5:
e|-6-|
B|-6-|
G|-6-|
D|-5-|
A|-x-|
E|-x-|


You barre the 5th fret (or equivalent) in the first three I told you.
#8
Thanks for the responses and the chart!
So a Eø7 chord is a minor chord?
How would a half-dimished major chord be noted then?
#9
Hi Kris...no. It's not a minor CHORD. It has a minor 3rd however.

There are NO MAJOR 3rds in DIMINISHED OR HALF DIMINISHED CHORDS.

Before this place takes off with misinformation. a Half Diminished chord, is a diminished triad with a b7. Its also called a Minor7b5. That's its most common term.

There is NO Half Diminished 7 with a Major 3rd.

It would only be called a Dominant 7b5...ever.

/thread

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Mar 30, 2014,
#10
^ Yeah. Em7b5 is kind of a confusing name. It's not a minor chord, it's a diminished chord with a minor 7th. Learn about chord construction (with note names and intervals, not just on your fretboard) and it gets a lot easier. Then you don't need any chord charts - you can build your own chord voicings.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#11
Quote by sickman411
This. E7b5 would have a major third.

Which isn't actually a chord. Any m7b5 chord is actually made of the 1, b3, b5, & b7 intervals. This is called "half-diminished". (Full diminished 7th chords would have a bb7.) There is no b5 chord with a major third.


Typically, we don't refer to chords with #4/b5 by using the b5 as part of chord name. Rather, we use the #4 enharmonic...or more typically, #11. Common examples include maj7#11 and 7#11.

@TS:
There are 3 basic types of chords: major (1, 3, 5), minor (1, b3, 5), and diminished (1, b3, b5). When we add a flat 7th interval to these chords, we have a regular 7th chord (1, 3, 5, b7), min7 (1, b3, 5, b7), and a half-diminished 7th (1, b3, b5, b7). In order to maintain better voice-leading, a "full" diminished 7th chord is sometimes used (1, b3, b5, bb7). Typically, Jazz most often uses either type of diminished 7th chord. Blues, as a genre, likes to use 7th and min7 chords. Classical music is more strict, in that it was an unwritten rule that a 7th chord ONLY be used on the V chord, which led to the name dominant 7th chord (as the V chord was often called the dominant).

Edit:
There's actually 4 basic types of chords. I just didn't figure including anything about augmented chords was pertinent to your question, TS. Anyway, 20Tigers covered it...
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Mar 30, 2014,
#12
There are four triads.

You construct these four triads by "stacking" major and/or minor thirds on top of each other.

For example start with a root add a major third above that to get a root and a major third, add a minor third above that and you get the perfect fifth. Here's a picture to help explain things.



To get a seventh chord you add another major or minor third on top again and get some kind of seventh chord.

When naming a seventh chord there are two "halves" of the chord to notate: the triad, and the seventh.

If you have a diminished triad and you add a minor third on top of that diminished fifth the result is a diminished seventh. (1 b3 b5 bb7). In C this would be C Eb Gb Bbb. The triad is diminished and the seventh is also diminished. This is called a diminished seventh chord, a fully diminished seventh chord, and it is notated with a "o7".

If you have a diminished triad (1 b3 b5) and add a major third on top of that b5 you get a minor seventh (b7) on the diminished triad. Thus only half of the chord is diminished: the triad is diminished and the seventh is minor. Half diminished seventh = 1 b3 b5 b7, in C that would be C Eb Gb Bb.

The m7 chord is 1 b3 5 b7. If we alter this m7 chord by lowering the fifth we get a m7b5 chord (1 b3 b5 b7) which is exactly the same as the half diminished seventh (1 b3 b5 b7) and so we can use either name to get the same chord.
Si
#13
Wow, I feel kind of embarrassed that I didn't include anything about augmented chords (and someone else did, lol). To be fair though, it wouldn't have really answered TS's question.
#14
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Typically, we don't refer to chords with #4/b5 by using the b5 as part of chord name. Rather, we use the #4 enharmonic...or more typically, #11. Common examples include maj7#11 and 7#11.


A diminished fifth is a diminished fifth and ALWAYS noted as a diminished fifth (b5).

An augmented fourth is noted as a #4 or more commonly as a #11.

They are not the same thing and shouldn't really be grouped together like that. One is an altered extension with a perfect fifth (that is at least implied) the other is an alteration to the base triad.

Specifically a Maj7#11 = 1 3 5 7 #11
While a Maj7(b5) = 1 3 b5 7

Even if you omit the fifth in your voicing of the Maj7#11, the chords are still different. #4 and b5 are NOT the same thing.
Si
#15
Quote by 20Tigers
A diminished fifth is a diminished fifth and ALWAYS noted as a diminished fifth (b5).

An augmented fourth is noted as a #4 or more commonly as a #11.

They are not the same thing and shouldn't really be grouped together like that. One is an altered extension with a perfect fifth (that is at least implied) the other is an alteration to the base triad.

Specifically a Maj7#11 = 1 3 5 7 #11
While a Maj7(b5) = 1 3 b5 7

Even if you omit the fifth in your voicing of the Maj7#11, the chords are still different. #4 and b5 are NOT the same thing.

Ok, I stand corrected.
#16
half dim and m7b5 are mostly interchangeable.

In classical analysis you'd call it a half diminished 7 because it typically shows up as a leading tone chord in first inversion, having practically the same function as fully diminished 7th chords.

In jazz you could appropriately call it m7b5, because it usually functions as a root position ii chord. In that context I'd argue it's a minor chord because of the function. But you see it both ways on charts