#1
Im looking into getting a Marshall amp. A JVM210h. i would get the 410 but its too expensive for me. can you get a alot of gain out of the 210 like you can out of the 410.
I play Kill Em all and early Metallica and megadeth all the way to cannibal corpse. So could i get a really thrashy sound and a death metal sound out of this amp? I wjust want to make sure i have an amp that can make that classic Kill Em All sound
thanks!
Last edited by slyrez at Mar 30, 2014,
#2
I wouldn't get a JVM of any sort for that tone. A little google tells me that album was all JMP or 2203 or something in that vein. An old Marshall JCM2000 DSL would be a way better choice, with enough gain in the highest gain channel for CC if you boost it with a distortion pedal like they do.

Where in the world are you located? I'm assuming you're not going used because you said you can't afford the JVM - is there any particular reason you're opposed to going used?

I apologize if I assume incorrectly.
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#3
Quote by Offworld92
I wouldn't get a JVM of any sort for that tone. A little google tells me that album was all JMP or 2203 or something in that vein. An old Marshall JCM2000 DSL would be a way better choice, with enough gain in the highest gain channel for CC if you boost it with a distortion pedal like they do.

Where in the world are you located? I'm assuming you're not going used because you said you can't afford the JVM - is there any particular reason you're opposed to going used?

I apologize if I assume incorrectly.



Im in seattle I did find that a jvm410h used is cheaper than a new jvm210h. so my possibility of getting a used jvm410h is good
#4
I don't think that was what Offworld was implying. I think, and this is assuming, that he was trying to gather your budget. If you were only buying new then that ruled out the JCM2000. But if you can go used then the JCM is the better bet. It is a really great amp and definitely fits what you are after, not to mention they can be had for sub $600. I would look at GC used and get that and a cab, provided you don't have one.
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#5
I'd take a JCM2000 DSL over any JVM any day, especially for the tones you are chasing.
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#6
Quote by bobafettacheese
I don't think that was what Offworld was implying. I think, and this is assuming, that he was trying to gather your budget. If you were only buying new then that ruled out the JCM2000. But if you can go used then the JCM is the better bet. It is a really great amp and definitely fits what you are after, not to mention they can be had for sub $600. I would look at GC used and get that and a cab, provided you don't have one.


and by that you mean the old jcm2000 dsl or the new production dsl100h? i looked at both and they sound great
#7
You want a real JCM2000 DSL 50/100 made after 2003.
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#8
I had one of the old DSL100s and now have a JVM205H. I sure as hell would not recommend the DSL for thrash. The JVM is neither here nor there. It's sort of stuck between classic metal and modern metal. In terms of sheer gain it definitely has enough for thrash, but the inherent EQ is distinctly more scooped and the extreme bass and treble are a bit too stiff. For thrash you definitely want something a bit stiffer than your typical Marshall tone, but the JVM is several steps too far in that direct. For death metal, well, it depends on your definition of 'death metal'. I would say it has enough gain and and appropriate tone for death metal, but my standards are more towards the central continental European kind of half-death, half-goth metal. I appreciate that the more American and deepest-darkest-corner-of-Scandinavia style of death metal has a looser tone.

The problem with the DSL is that the only way to get enough gain is to use Lead 2, which is really poorly designed and basically just a big, blown-out, muddy mess. It's like running a regular JCM800 and then stacking two maxed-out ODs in front of it. Enough gain? Sure. Will anything you play be actually audible? Not a chance. You can take off the deep switch and push in the mid shift for a more controlled sound, but then the clean tone becomes ridiculously thin and you're pretty much locking yourself into just the one tone, plus it makes ODs less effective. If you only ever play distorted rhythm and will never play clean or lead, it'll basically get the job done. It's a really arse-about-face way of getting there, though.

The JVM beats the DSL for gain and clarity, by a long way. Because the JVM is designed from the ground up to be a higher-gain and tighter amp, instead of just taking the JCM800 design and sticking another gain stage in it, you can use those higher gain options and still crank the mids and bass without it getting out of control. My JVM's OD orange with the gain on 3 equals the DSL100's Lead 1 with the gain maxed out, and putting the gain at 4 is where another gain stage kicks in and then it matches the DSL Lead 2 with the gain on 6, only much clearer. You've also got an extra gain bump to play with on the OD red mode, giving you the same sound as the DSL's Lead 2 with even more gain available, if for some reason you find yourself craving the overblown mud tone.

And of course the JVM has a resonance control instead of a plain all-or-nothing deep switch, the reverb is better (why the DSL's reverb comes in the middle of the gain, I have no idea), you've got two EQ sections so controlling your distorted tone doesn't interfere with your clean and the effects loop can be set to work with each channel mode individually, which makes switching betwen a tone with lots of effects and one with none much easier. Then there's the dual master volumes, giving you the option to balance your sounds however you want or make a lead boost out of any tone.

The only real drawbacks of the JVM are that it has so much gain you will definitely need a good noise suppressor/gate and people who are used to simple single-button footswitches do find the JVM's method of switching confusing. Other than that... well, there's a reason why I sold my DSL and didn't find an amp I liked enough to keep until I founD the JVM.

If you were trying to play Bon Jovi and Green Day, I'd say the JVM isn't worth a second thought and the DSL is definitely the best thing you could get. For classic metal, you'd want to stick an OD in front of it, but the DSL would do fine. But for thrash and death metal? I'd say the JVM is pretty much ideal, at least by my standards of what 'thrash' and 'death' are.


You either love or hate the JVM. It has a sound unique to itself, completely unlike other Marshalls and not terribly similar to much else. It was designed expressly for hard rock, alternative rock and metal, not just to be a 'pre-modded' JCM800 like everything else Marshall has made in the last twenty years (including the DSL).
Your milage may vary. You could well hate it, and I would understand why. When you use an amp with 'Marshall' written on it you expect a certain kind of sound, and in that respect the JVM will never deliver. It is not a JCM800 with a boost in front of it. It is not a Plexi. It is not 'the' Marshall sound you've heard for the last forty, fifty years. But as a versatile, heavy-rock-and-metal amp in its own right, it absolutely does what it sets out to do.
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#9
Not to thread jack, but would you recommend the 205H over a DSL for say AiC, Tool, Soundgarden, Metallica type stuff?

Also can the 205h do good lower gain tones like ac/dc, zeppelin (live) etc?
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#10
So JVM is like TSL100, you either hate it or love it? It does what it does well enough but dont expect it to sound like Marshall.

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#11
Flibbles, sticking a boost/overdrive in front of a DSL goes without saying I would have thought. Not that keen on the JVM myself. It's like it wants to be a Boogie, but it doesn't want to let go of being a Marshall and it just does nothing good as a result. They're a useable amp , I'd gig with one if I had to, but they're a bit blehhh.
I stand by the DSL, with as you say, a nice pedal or three.


But of course, the reality is, I'd use my Randall.
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#12
Quote by Cathbard
It's like it wants to be a Boogie, but it doesn't want to let go of being a Marshall
That's the whole idea of it. The TSL was meant to fill that role, but obviously it wasn't adopted in the numbers that the DSL was and, with it being discontinued while the DSL lives on (albeit in a cheaper format), it's become clear that the TSL has basically been written off as a minor failure.

Once it was obvious the TSL line wasn't going over as well as they'd hoped, the JVM was made. Unlike the DSL and TSL JCM2000s, the JVM ditched the 'JCM' association and started over from scratch. Instead of taking the JCM800 base and piling more gain on, which hadn't worked with the TSL, they pretty much just looked at the 6505/5150 and Mesa amps and said "okay, we'll do that then, I guess." The resulting amp is an almost exact halfway point between your standard 'modded JCM800' Marshall and a Single Rectifier with EL34s.

So, yes, its supposed to sound like a-Marshall-trying-to-be-a-Mesa. That's exactly what it is and how it was designed to be and that's the market it's meant to serve.

and it just does nothing good as a result.
As someone who for years has been stuck between wanting a Marshall but mostly listening to Mesa and 6505/5150 tones, I think it fills that gap very nicely. It's for people who want a little of both. If you want 'the' Marshall tone, buy a JCM800 and stick an SD-1 in front of it. If you want the sound of a Mesa, buy a Single Rectifier. I you kind of like Mesas and kind of like Marshalls but don't particularly favour one over the other, the JVM is what you want.

Quote by Badmotorfingers
Not to thread jack, but would you recommend the 205H over a DSL for say AiC, Tool, Soundgarden, Metallica type stuff?
That's tougher. For Metallica, yes, but you'd need to set the treble, presence and gain very conservatively. For the others, I'd say it's about even. Possibly give the edge to the DSL, because it's got more mids available.

Also can the 205h do good lower gain tones like ac/dc, zeppelin (live) etc?
The clean/crunch channel can, but not as well as the DSL's Crunch and Lead 1 can. The JVM4xx amps can do it better; the JVM2xx only have the extra-tight channels available, whereas the JVM4xx also have two 'standard Marshall' voiced channels.


Quote by MaaZeus
So JVM is like TSL100, you either hate it or love it? It does what it does well enough but dont expect it to sound like Marshall.
Exactly. I totally understand when people don't like the TSL and JVM, but at the same time, I always question what they were expecting in the first place.

I honestly do not believe that Marshall has produced a bad UK-made amp. Even those dual reverb JCM900s with the transistor clipping are really nice, if you know what you're letting yourself in for. The DSL100 I had was a nice amp, it just didn't do the things I needed it to do.

Marshall just has the same problem that Gibson and Fender have. Make something modern, people say it's trash. Make another vintage reissue, people complain that you keep recycling the same ideas.
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#13
Or you take the route I did, Flibbles. Randall RM100. One of my modules has a JVM red channel which gets very close and I never use it. I use the 2203 configuration on that module. It's pretty close too. And I've got a Mesa module that kicks arse. And just for good measure, Fender.
JVM? Pffffft. I blow my nose at their idea of versatility.
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#14
Quote by MrFlibble

That's tougher. For Metallica, yes, but you'd need to set the treble, presence and gain very conservatively. For the others, I'd say it's about even. Possibly give the edge to the DSL, because it's got more mids available.


What about a 410H vs DSL for the other stuff besides Metallica?
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#15
Quote by Badmotorfingers
What about a 410H vs DSL for the other stuff besides Metallica?
Then I'd call it even, and simply a matter of the form factor you like best: four totally independent channels and a six-button footswitch or two channels sharing controls and a single footswitch button. The JVM4s can do as much as and more than the DSL, but there's no point paying for stuff you won't use.

Quote by Cathbard
Or you take the route I did, Flibbles. Randall RM100. One of my modules has a JVM red channel which gets very close and I never use it. I use the 2203 configuration on that module. It's pretty close too. And I've got a Mesa module that kicks arse. And just for good measure, Fender.
JVM? Pffffft. I blow my nose at their idea of versatility.
I have a bad history with Randalls and won't touch one. So.

Also, having a 2203 and then a Mesa option is sort of missing the point. You want a 2203+Mesa option

Funnily enough, the JVM4xx's clean channel green mode is voiced to sound like a Fender. (The JVM2xx's clean channel green mode has a fixed EQ before it to make it sound like a Vox.)
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#16
But at the end of the day you get neither and I get both.

And I do have a JVM red tone anyway. I don't like it. It's a non-committal mish mash of almost here, almost there, nowhere really. You know? A JVM?
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#17
Quote by MrFlibble
Then I'd call it even, and simply a matter of the form factor you like best: four totally independent channels and a six-button footswitch or two channels sharing controls and a single footswitch button. The JVM4s can do as much as and more than the DSL, but there's no point paying for stuff you won't use.


They should've put shared EQs on the new DSL but I guess that would eat into JVM sales...
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#18
Quote by Cathbard
But at the end of the day you get neither and I get both.

And I do have a JVM red tone anyway. I don't like it. It's a non-committal mish mash of almost here, almost there, nowhere really. You know? A JVM?
I believe I did point out, in my first post, that the OD red is a mess
The OD orange already has more gain than anybody can really use. Why they thought they needed to then put a further mode with more gain and more low-mids, I've no clue. On my own amp I never touch the red modes at all, everything sits in green and orange.

And again, I think you're just missing the point. It's not about having both, it's about having the gap between them.

Quote by Badmotorfingers
They should've put shared EQs on the new DSL but I guess that would eat into JVM sales...
And then it would be a botched TSL, not a DSL.

Though I don't know why they bothered with the new DSL line, anyway. I mean, I do know, it's 'cause they can make them cheaper and sell them for just as much as the old ones, but I mean objectively as an amp, it's a downgrade for the line. It looks like nearly everybody has noticed, too, so all they've really done is drive up the second hand market for the old DSL.


Apologies to the OP for this getting so far out of hand.
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#19
I'm not missing the point Flibbles, I'm rejecting it.


And btw. I don't like TSL's for the same reason. Marshall should stick to what they do best; being a half arsed Mesa isn't that.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Mar 31, 2014,
#20
I was actually looking at a Randall Thrasher. those seem pretty nice
#21
Take a look at my RM100 NAD. I just resurrected it after buying some new modules. It'll do anything you want, you just gotta select the right modules for you. By the time you hunt down the modules it will probably go over budget unless you can find one already loaded with what you need. Used RM100's seem to go pretty cheap in the US so you might get lucky.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1621877
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