#1
Okay. For months and months, I've been trying to get a good tone for extreme metal sounds. You know, thrash, doom, death, and sludge. Bands like Slayer, Metallica, Death, Candlemass, Mastodon, Cannibal Corpse, Thou, Eyehategod, basically bands that have really heavy chugs and distorted sounds. But, I also want to have clean sounds, like in Metallica's "...And Justice For All" or Mastodon's "Hearts Alive." The best distorted tones I've found end up having very VERY thin sounding cleans (and the distorted tones are very noisy and don't have enough sustain on the notes), and the clean tones all have distorted settings that are, well, to put it bluntly, utter ****. The equipment I have is very cheap but sadly I can't get anything else. And please, do NOT tell me to sell the equipment to buy new stuff or even worse, just say the equipment is bad. I know it's bad. But I'm also relatively young and I have no money to my name. With the exception of the wah pedal and Mustang V.2, everything I have was a gift, so my parents wouldn't let me sell it anyway.

Equipment
-Legacy Solid Body Stratocaster Guitar
-Fender Mustang V.2 Combo Amp
-Fender Frontman 15R Amp
-Crate B40-XL Bass Amp (I can play through this just fine)
-Classic Crybaby Wah Pedal
-Danelectro D-3 Metal Distortion
-DigiTech RP-50

The only settings I've found to work for the music I play is this.
Amp Model Simulation: Fender '57 Twin
Gain: 0
Volume: 10
Treble: 5
Middle: 1
Bass: 10
Presence: 0
Cabinet: 2x12C
Simulated Compressor
Attack: 0%
Level: 49.2%
Threshold: 49.6%
Ratio: 555
Release: 39%
Distortion Pedal Settings
Gain: Full
Level: Almost off (I can't play particularly loud)
Tone: 3/8-1/2 Of the way Up

I know stratocasters are not the best for this by a long shot but like I said, I have no way to replace or change what I have. I'm asking on here because as I should have expected on Yahoo answers despite putting it in the description what I need, the answers were all, "Get a guitar with Humbucker pickups," "Sell the DigiTech, Danelectro, the amps, and the guitar, use the money to buy these things (proceeds to link to equipment that would be far too expensive even after selling those things)," and tones that sounded more akin to Judas Priest behind a wall of fuzz than Slayer or Metallica. And by the way, I have tried presets available on the Fuse site for the V.2; none of them sound even close to what they say they are and there are barely any to begin with.

Anything that isn't just insulting my equipment or me (I've been told I haven't been playing long enough to deserve good settings before) is appreciated! I assume on here there has to be someone that knows something at least close to the right tone.
#2
Honestly, it's a matter of not having the right tools for the job. You'll just have to deal with it until you can get better equipment. Just focus on playing rather than the tone for now.
#3
There really isn't much you are going to be able to do. You need gear aimed towards the styles you want.
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#4
Yeah you don't really have the right setup. The best advice I can give is get a good MFX board if you don;t want to spend a lot. I use a Boss GT-6. Rec Orange, TS808 and two EQ models all in the board gets me a huge wall of sound type Devin Townsend Project/Strapping Young Lad tone.
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#5
Oh well... I guess I'm not gonna be able to get that sound until either my birthday or I can have a worker's permit. :/ It's hard for me to focus on the playing when the sound is so off; it has that nice chug for really heavy stuff but it's not tight at all and the upper strings sound awful.
#6
Quote by TheStig1214
Yeah you don't really have the right setup. The best advice I can give is get a good MFX board if you don;t want to spend a lot. I use a Boss GT-6. Rec Orange, TS808 and two EQ models all in the board gets me a huge wall of sound type Devin Townsend Project/Strapping Young Lad tone.

Or you could just get a better amp, as TS probably should. Amp > pedals, in terms of tone. ALWAYS.

TS, you're never going to get a good metal tone out of a Fender Twin sim and a distortion pedal. It just isn't happening. You really should sell your current amps (or at least, 2 of them) and then put the money aside with money to save up for buying a decent high gain, metal/hard rock amp. Also, sell that distortion pedal...when you get a new amp, you won't need it.
#7
RP-50 into clean settings on the bass amp might do. Just lookup some settings for your processor.
Sounds like you hafe enough or too much gear but it is more geared for blues/rock
Maybe try it on the other amps, with clean settings as you can.
#8
When I first started I have a Peavey Patriot and Peavey Rage 158. It worked fine for the first year or two.

TS, stop posting on forums and go play guitar. When you have saved up enough money, come back here and we'll help you get a new guitar and amp.

You can totally sell stuff your parents bought you. Do you think they want you play that gear for 30 years or what? Right now they don't even know if you'll keep playying.
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Last edited by DeathByDestroyr at Apr 1, 2014,
#9
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
When I first started I have a Peavey Patriot and Peavey Rage 158. It worked fine for the first year or two.

TS, stop posting on forums and go play guitar
. When you have saved up enough money, come back here and we'll help you get a new guitar and amp.

You can totally sell stuff your parents bought you. Do you think they want you play that gear for 30 years or what? Right now they don't even know if you'll keep playying.


you seem young. work on learning.

could you mow peoples lawns for money? or something like that?
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#10
Well, single coil guitar might be the worst for the sounds you want. You could add a single coil size humbucker or stacked humbucker in that Fender or even fit in a bucker in bridge position.

You have enough gear to make it work but actually way too much. The RP should be your main sound source, then whatever amp should just amplify that. The distortion pedal might work to add the dirt before the RP if you want to disable its amp's modeling.

After all, be original. Rehashing those artist sounds won't get you anywhere. The guitar greats did it by being themselves and sometimes using unconventional methods. Most of the musicians that you can think have distinctive tone have gotten it through experimentation.
Last edited by diabolical at Apr 1, 2014,
#11
^That man. Mow yards, do odd jobs. Most importantly, just play dude. I mowed yards to get a cheap bass amp and a DS-1, and played the crap outta them for a long time.
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#12
Look on craigslist and buy the cheapest guitar you can find with a humbucker in the bridge. Even ZZ Top will get a better extreme metal tone than you if you don't have a humbucker in the bridge.

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#13
I agree with the others about needing the right tool for the job.

However, I'd advise practicing with your existing gear and saving up for a decent guitar with the right specs, etc. as opposed to just grabbing the first cheapie axe you can find. Your patience WILL be rewarded.
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#14
ok a couple of things. just piling on distortion isn't going to get you a good sound no matter what gear you have. use the more metal amp settings on your mustang for starters. you should be able to get a metal tone that way. don't scoop the mids. realize that you don't have the right gear for the ones you want. you can get an acceptable tone for practice but you won't nail those. I play strats through high gain amps for metal type tones but you have to be realistic about your expectations.
#16
^ Yeah, just sell what you don't like and don't need, tell your parents it's awful equipment, try to explain it to them.
#17
The answers you got on Yahoo answers were correct. You've got the wrong gear.
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#18
Wrong gear indeed. You need a humbucker guitar if anything.
Tube screamer into a modern high gain amp.

That's the most basic formula on getting an extreme metal tone. You mainly need to find which guitar and amp is best for you though.
#19
Quote by CreeperSteve
(...) I have tried presets available on the Fuse site for the V.2; none of them sound even close to what they say they are (...)

Maybe because you're using a guitar loaded with single-coil pickups, when it's easier to get metal tones using humbuckers.

I've managed to get really good extreme metal tones out of a Fender Mustang with an LTD MH-401, so i'd say that the amp isn't the problem here.
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#20
I unfortunately live in a really really dumb community. No one around here pays to have their lawns mowed; the people here don't trust others. They don't even use banks because they're worried about the banks stealing from them. The only way I can get money is selling my equipment and birthdays; my birthday isn't until August. I have another guitar in Washington with Humbucker pickups, but it's completely falling apart; the tone and volume knobs are practically glued on. And to DeathByDestroyr; no, I can't sell the equipment no matter what. The bass amp was a gift from my aunt and uncle and my parents specifically said I can NOT sell that. The guitar was bought with help from my dad, if he hadn't payed for half of it I would still be using the guitar in Washington; it takes me months to get even $40 with the measly allowance I get. The distortion pedal and RP-50 are both from my uncle that got me started on guitar in the first place and he has little in terms of money, so selling those isn't an option. Until I'm 18 I'm not going to be able to sell anything.
#21
Based on the post above quit worrying about the perfect sound and work on honing your skills. While equipment does matter, the better you are the less it matters...skill can't make up for gear that simply won't do what you're asking, but it will get you closer than no skill.

And who knows, perhaps as you improve you'll find a tone you really like hiding in your gear and it will be all you, not a copy of someone else's vision.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#22
Maybe the next best thing that might be in your budget eventually is getting a single coil sized humbucker. Single coil is bad idea when dealing with a lot of gain. Not only is the thin "twangy" sound not good for metal they are really noisy with gain turned up.

Also regarding your settings do not turn bass that high and do not scoop your mids that much. Yes, scooping is needed for certain death metal styles (strictly album sound. they do not scoop live or they stop doing it once they realise the importance of mids) but that much simply results in you being drowned out if you ever play in a band, and having bass that high turns your sound into muddy diarhea porridge. But you can sound plenty heavy with mids turned up too. Slayer for example uses quite high mids. Pretty much almost opposite of scooped smiley face.

Also be careful with the gain. Cannibal Corpse and such indeed uses copious amounts of gain (and it shows, the individual notes are blurred together in a one big wall of sound. Sounds badass but forget about clean tight riffs with those settings but then again thats not the point in this kind of music) but for tighter Thrash you will need way less than you might think.

To put it in this way, more gain you have the more punch you have but you will also be less tight and more noisy. Less gain you have tighter you become but with less punch. But you can regain the punch boosting the amp with overdrive pedals and such but still staying tight.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Apr 1, 2014,
#23
Quote by MaaZeus
Maybe the next best thing that might be in your budget eventually is getting a single coil sized humbucker. Single coil is bad idea when dealing with a lot of gain. Not only is the thin "twangy" sound not good for metal they are really noisy with gain turned up.

Also regarding your settings do not turn bass that high and do not scoop your mids that much. Yes, scooping is needed for certain death metal styles (strictly album sound. they do not scoop live or they stop doing it once they realise the importance of mids) but that much simply results in you being drowned out if you ever play in a band, and having bass that high turns your sound into muddy diarhea porridge. But you can sound plenty heavy with mids turned up too. Slayer for example uses quite high mids. Pretty much almost opposite of scooped smiley face.

Also be careful with the gain. Cannibal Corpse and such indeed uses copious amounts of gain (and it shows, the individual notes are blurred together in a one big wall of sound. Sounds badass but forget about clean tight riffs with those settings but then again thats not the point in this kind of music) but for tighter Thrash you will need way less than you might think.

To put it in this way, more gain you have the more punch you have but you will also be less tight and more noisy. Less gain you have tighter you become but with less punch. But you can regain the punch boosting the amp with overdrive pedals and such but still staying tight.


his main amp is a modeler so a pup change may not have as much effect as you might think. bottom line is that you can't expect to get some of the tones the OP wants with the gear he has. not sure why he chose some of that to begin with as it is wrong for what he plays. through my POD i can get a decent metal sound with a strat but it's not death metal for sure. thinking he may just have to live with what he can get out of his rig for now. solid advice on doing that.
#24
Going from say humbucker to a different humbucker wouldn't show any difference with the mustang, but from SC to HB would help IMO
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#25
Equipment
-Legacy Solid Body Stratocaster Guitar
-Fender Mustang V.2 Combo Amp
-Fender Frontman 15R Amp
-Crate B40-XL Bass Amp (I can play through this just fine)
-Classic Crybaby Wah Pedal
-Danelectro D-3 Metal Distortion
-DigiTech RP-50

OK, I looked a little further into your gear. I think the main point is that you're not familiar with what to do with it. For example the Mustang is a modeling amp and the RP-50 is an effect modeler, i.e. pretty much two of the same thing, just one has a power amp (Fender).

Here's a video of a guy playing Fender guitar and similar Mustang modeling amp to yours. It is not a godsent tone as would an Engl or other quality gear produce but it is manageable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Mp2BhpmXLJY

Here are some more presets that are not that ghastly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMN18rKlBng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xnpM95HyM4

So sounds like you need to explore your amp further just by itself, without extra things plugged in.

As a general area to explore try the "green screamer" and either a Marshall JCM800 or Mesa siim, maybe some eq and see where it will take you.

Alternately I think it has an mp3 or Line in jack on the right where you might hookup 1/4 to 1/8 jack from your RP50 bypassing the whole preamp section of the Mustang and using it as clean amp.

THe Frontman will probably sound ghastly no matter what you do. Maybe clean setting and RP50 or just your distortion pedal. The Aux in might provide a way to bypass the whole thing and use the RP50 to direct inject in the "Aux In" via 1/4 to RCA cable (or two).

Crate bass amp - usually this will be the most tone neutral so see if you have a line in to bypass the preamp if not just run the RP50 in the front of it with the amp's settings flat.

The RP50
Apparently per the manual you can emulate humbucker pickups. So look at the manual. Pick british or high gain amp and play around with the speaker emulations
(p14, p21 in manual).


If you want to go crazy you can probably hook up the RP50 outputs in stereo to each of the other amp's line in/aux inputs. I think you have enough gear to do something decent but need to RTFM!

http://c3.zzounds.com/media/RP50Manual-ed35a2ee34ceded85c8d523ffa7a1faf.pdf

More RP50 patches:
http://digitech.com/soundcomm/guitar_list_patches.asp?productid=1
Last edited by diabolical at Apr 1, 2014,
#27
"Alternately I think it has an mp3 or Line in jack on the right where you might hookup 1/4 to 1/8 jack from your RP50 bypassing the whole preamp section of the Mustang and using it as clean amp."

What do you mean by this? Use the AUX input?

"Crate bass amp - usually this will be the most tone neutral so see if you have a line in to bypass the preamp if not just run the RP50 in the front of it with the amp's settings flat."

The amp has two input jacks; a 0db and 15db one. I don't notice any difference in the sound when I use either of those two; which one would be the bypass?

And thank you in advance, your answer has been the most helpful out of any I've gotten by far! When I have the chance I'll try out what you said.
#28
Id just keep tweaking the Mustang. They are alright for a practice amp, I've heard decent metal tones through them. There has to be something worth a damn in there.
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#29
Quote by CreeperSteve
"

What do you mean by this? Use the AUX input?




Yes, try that. The Aux looks to be in stereo so I am not exactly sure how that will play out through your amp but you can try probably with a 1/4 mono to rca mono adapter on one of your 1/4 cables (Radio Shack sell these).

Quote by CreeperSteve
"

"Crate bass amp - usually this will be the most tone neutral so see if you have a line in to bypass the preamp if not just run the RP50 in the front of it with the amp's settings flat."

The amp has two input jacks; a 0db and 15db one. I don't notice any difference in the sound when I use either of those two; which one would be the bypass?


I'd venture a guess that the 15db is for passive bass pickups (no onboard preamp) vs active at 0db. Probably the same sound just one will be louder.
A bass amp is usually full range so you can probably get a less colored sound with your RP50 through that.

I will lastly suggest some gear, quite inexpensive addition, maybe swap your current distortion pedal or get it used...or see if the RP50 doesn't have a setting to mimic this pedal since they're from same company.
http://www.houstonmusicreviews.com/GearReview/DistShootout/digitechmetalmaster.htm

or this:
http://www.houstonmusicreviews.com/GearReview/DistShootout/digitechdf7.htm
#30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvtvstFjVuU

Here is a video of ola englund getting an extreme metal tone from a mustang one I don't really know the difference between the v1 and v2 but I hope it helps
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