#1
hello to you all over here. i live in GG&A, but i need some extra info so

i have a genz-benz M-Line 200 watt. its a 2x10" with a tweeter.
i have a squier bass (ironically i have over 20 guitars). i can play bass, but i prefer guitar or drums, but i have fun.

i have pushed the amp a little bit, i have only used it in a band setting practice and not sure if i need more power, it gets pretty loud, but i don't think it will hold its weight with a half stack. i don't think it can (and yes i am a 4x12" kind of guy).

are genz benz amps decent? it was a CL deal i saw it posted on CL right to my phone and had it 20minutes later. he said i was the first of like 10 callers. $140 and it is really mint. like unused.

thanks for the help and i am interested and await in your answers.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#2
Depends what music your playing, if its metal or hard rock with 2 guitars then your gonna need another 2x10 cab. Genz-benz have a good reputation and are one of the more popular compact/light weight heads and cabs manufacturers.
I use 200w hartke amps at rehearsals with a 4x10 and 1x15 and have no trouble being heard over a hard hitting drummer and 2 guitars. Speaker surface area makes a difference, its not all about wattage.
#3
agreed on speaker area, my ashdown 4x10 is alot louder than my old ashdown 1x15 despite being the same wattage. You'll likely need another cab if you're gonna be playing with 2 guitarists. It'll probably get loud enough if you push it, but it'll probably fart out and sound flabby rather than musical.
#4
thanks to both of you i am not a gigging bassist so it would be only used occasionally for practice. if i can i may pick up a 4x10" or something.

stupid question: are solid state bass amps any more different in ,/a technical stance from a solid stae guitar amp? are t,hey running class D? or anything like that? are they the typical 4,8,16 ohms as well?

would i be better off just picking a PA powered monitor? then i could use it for other things? 15" or so?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#5
A 4x10 will give you the punch and a 1x15 will give you the bottom but most bass players doing the heavy stuff like 600 watts so they never get near clipping. A well designed bass amp will give you better tone than a PA cab. Different designs for different purposes.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Apr 7, 2014,
#6
Quote by Cajundaddy
A 4x10 will give you the punch and a 1x15 will give you the bottom but most bass players doing the heavy stuff like 600 watts so they never get near clipping. A well designed bass amp will give you better tone than a PA cab. Different designs for different purposes.


Thanks! I will do some more research. And likely come back here again
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#7
Quote by Cajundaddy
A 4x10 will give you the punch and a 1x15 will give you the bottom but most bass players doing the heavy stuff like 600 watts so they never get near clipping. A well designed bass amp will give you better tone than a PA cab. Different designs for different purposes.


Getting to be a bit like a stuck record, but FWIW this isn't really the case any more. A well designed cab with 10's will chuck out all the low end you'll ever need. The sound of a bass cab is influenced far more by factors such as speaker material, cabinet material, enclosure design and so on than by the size of the speaker itself. In other words, a 10" paper driver with a neodynium magnet in a ported Birch ply enclosure will likely sound very similar to a 15" paper driver with a neodynium magnet in a ported Birch ply enclosure, but fairly different to a 10" aluminium driver with a ceramic magnet in a sealed MDF enclosure.

Essentially there is no need to mix and match speaker sizes. Find a cabinet you like the sound of, and stick with it. If you need it to go louder? Get another identical cabinet. Mixing and matching cabinets can be unpredictable at best, and phasing issues will cause the sound to be affected. If you're looking to change the sound of a cab by getting another with a different speaker size, believing that it will balance the sound out, you'd be better replacing the one you have with one that sounds as you want it to by itself, and simply adding another identical one if you need to move more air.
Spare a Cow
Eat a Vegan
#8
Quote by Ziphoblat
Getting to be a bit like a stuck record, but FWIW this isn't really the case any more. A well designed cab with 10's will chuck out all the low end you'll ever need. The sound of a bass cab is influenced far more by factors such as speaker material, cabinet material, enclosure design and so on than by the size of the speaker itself.


Hey a difference of opinion is cool, but if you are going to suggest another poster is FOS at least be able to support it with hard data and specs:

http://www.bass.se/

Compare the EBS Neo 4x10 with the Neo 1x15 cabs.

4x10 is rated to 50hz and 105db spl. 105db is big punch but it rolls off at 50hz (-3db). The lowest note on a 4 string bass is 41 hz and a 4x10 doesn't really go there.

1x15 is rated to 38 hz and 100db spl. More bottom that easily covers 41 hz but less punch than the 4x10.

Got any 4x10 cabs with that kind of punch (105db SPL) that also go down to 38 hz? A pretty tough pull due to the physics involved. The Ampeg SVT410HLF will go to 48hz (-3db) but gives up a lot of punch in getting there (only 98db SPL). All bass speaker systems are a tradeoff.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Apr 8, 2014,
#9
Quote by Cajundaddy
Hey a difference of opinion is cool, but if you are going to suggest another poster is FOS at least be able to support it with hard data and specs:


Full of shit is an interesting interpretation. I didn't claim that you were wrong, but simply that the notion of needing huge speakers to obtain sufficient low-end is an out-dated one given the capabilities of modern drivers.

Quote by Cajundaddy
Compare the EBS Neo 4x10 with the Neo 1x15 cabs.

4x10 is rated to 50hz and 105db spl. 105db is big punch but it rolls off at 50hz (-3db). The lowest note on a 4 string bass is 41 hz and a 4x10 doesn't really go there.

1x15 is rated to 38 hz and 100db spl. More bottom that easily covers 41 hz but less punch than the 4x10.

Got any 4x10 cabs with that kind of punch (105db SPL) that also go down to 38 hz? A pretty tough pull due to the physics involved. The Ampeg SVT410HLF will go to 48hz (-3db) but gives up a lot of punch in getting there (only 98db SPL). All bass speaker systems are a tradeoff.



Obtaining the fundamental frequency of the lowest note on a bass is almost entirely irrelevant to a good live rig. Analyse most pickups and you'll find the signal strength around that frequency weak at best. The fact that we perceive a low E as being defined is a usually a psycho-acoustic phenomenon - your ears hear the harmonics and your brain fills in the gap. Lose the second harmonic and you'll likely feel your E get weaker, but 82.5Hz isn't hard to attain. Factor in alternative tuning or extended range and suddenly 41Hz becomes arbitrary anyway. It's likely that a good chunk of the frequency response of any enclosure in that low territory comes from the port, in which case you're unlikely to be getting a focused/coherent sub-low end. The perception of low frequencies in general is what's important - the world of audio is all about tricking the brain, after all.

It's also worth considering that by the time you're pushing your cabinet to it's upper limits, assuming it's half-competent, that in most real-world scenarios you'll be running through a PA system, which, if it's any good, will knock seven shades of shit out of even a high end bass guitar cabinet in terms of technical performance and facilitate you running your amplifier at levels that aren't going to destroy your hearing.

The concept of mixing 15" speakers with other size speakers to obtain a tangible low end predates the idea of a bass speaker all together. It comes from a time when you'd be plugged into a guitar cabinet if you played the bass guitar. Using a bigger speaker at that point was only logical - a good guitar speaker won't go much lower than 100Hz. An old 15" speaker would unlikely get too close to 41Hz. Yet they still managed to sound good - hell, the cabinet of choice for most touring bassists today is an Ampeg fridge with a frequency response that kicks in around 60Hz. Wouldn't say the sound suffers for it. Yet with modern equipment you can get a 2x10 which goes down to 44Hz (Begantino HD210 if you want to fact-check). Hell, how about a 1x12 that does 37Hz? (Barefaced Compact).

In light of the capability of modern speakers, chasing around an extra arbitrary 3Hz extension on the frequency response from something like a Bergantino by sticking a random 1x15 in the mix hardly seems a reasonable trade-off for the wealth of phase issues that such a combination can create - especially when the most iconic and prolific bass cabinet of them all barely scratches 60Hz. Whether it's a worthwhile trade-off or not does contain a degree of subjectivity - though the choice does seem obvious. The rest, however, simply is what it is. If the extra 3Hz was so important anyway, it would surely make more sense to simply use two 1x15 speakers anyway, as I suggested in my original post, negating any phase issues from mixing and matching and maintaining a complete low-end extension.
Spare a Cow
Eat a Vegan
#10
Quote by trashedlostfdup

stupid question: are solid state bass amps any more different in ,/a technical stance from a solid stae guitar amp? are t,hey running class D? or anything like that? are they the typical 4,8,16 ohms as well?


yeah pretty much. any i've seen, anyway. you probably know this already but, like with guitar amps, the solid state bass amps put out the most wattage at the minimum impedance (which is normally 4 ohms).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
So we essentially agree then. A 4x10 offers more punch and is the choice of more bassists these days. A 15" offers better bottom (down to 38hz) but sacrifices a little punch and immediacy. Fair enough. Choose the result that suits you and your instrument. No one is suggesting you must have both. That would be an error in reading comprehension.

This is completely consistent with my earlier post:
"A 4x10 will give you the punch and a 1x15 will give you the bottom but most bass players doing the heavy stuff like 600 watts so they never get near clipping. A well designed bass amp will give you better tone than a PA cab. Different designs for different purposes."

A 6" subwoofer can reproduce as low as 30hz but SPL drops off dramatically down to about 80db. All bass speakers are a tradeoff.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Apr 8, 2014,
#12
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah pretty much. any i've seen, anyway. you probably know this already but, like with guitar amps, the solid state bass amps put out the most wattage at the minimum impedance (which is normally 4 ohms).


yep. thanks for the reminder, its a good thing to remind people... lol. i haven't dealt with a SS amp other than that little miracle ampeg 1x12" i swear by, but it does have a SS preamp but even the Music Man has a tube poweramp. some day when i get around to figuring out how to get my recording shit straight. i have every thing i think, just not computer friendly

but i was thinking 4 ohms as well. a long time ago i was into car audio shit. lol. i am sure a lot of us at some point. but i had 8,000 watts into a quad of Kicker 15" L7's. eight 6" midrange and another 8 tweaters.

sorry for rambling.

_______________________
more on topic:


To everybody,i think i am just going to go buy a bass rig for high volume and just use my existing one for practice/ recording. it is a pretty nice bass amp.

again you have always been great, if you have any recommendations, certainly let me know, the more i learn the better.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#13
no worries, i thought it was worth reminding you since I'm more used to guitar tube amps too where you just match impedances

the other guys will know way more about cabs than i do, but most of the ones I've come across have been 8 ohms. i'm sure there are some 4 ohm ones knocking about somewhere (other problem with a 4 ohm cab, assuming they do exist, is they'd need to have higher power handling which also might limit your choices).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
Some good answers, some opinions. What these experts seem to forget is that no two venues are the same, flapping the curtains one venue hardly hear it on stage the next.
It's all about moving air and yes 10s can reproduce low frequencies and 15s can produce high frequencies (not those of a horn).
A good setup IMHO is a 2x10+horn sat on top of a single 15, bi-amped through a variable crossover.
I currently use an Ashdown RPM1 preamp into two powered cabs (2x10+H & 1x15) this preamp has a variable crossover plus a balance between high and low frequencies.
The powered cabs I build myself using 12mm braced plywood. 4x10s are bulky and expensive, one well known manufacturer of amps and cabs paid £9.50 each ex factory for the 75 watt 10s in their popular 4x10 cab that sold for £499 that leaves £461 to build a cab costing at the most £40 to make. Now you know why I build my own. My rig has the flexibility to cater for most situations in doors and out. Rather than use anything larger the bass should be augments by the PA system.
I base my opinions on 52 years gigging experience playing most genres of music.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#15
Quote by Ziphoblat


The concept of mixing 15" speakers with other size speakers to obtain a tangible low end predates the idea of a bass speaker all together. It comes from a time when you'd be plugged into a guitar cabinet if you played the bass guitar. Using a bigger speaker at that point was only logical - a good guitar speaker won't go much lower than 100Hz. An old 15" speaker would unlikely get too close to 41Hz. Yet they still managed to sound good - hell, the cabinet of choice for most touring bassists today is an Ampeg fridge with a frequency response that kicks in around 60Hz. Wouldn't say the sound suffers for it. Yet with modern equipment you can get a 2x10 which goes down to 44Hz (Begantino HD210 if you want to fact-check). Hell, how about a 1x12 that does 37Hz? (Barefaced Compact).

Hifi speaker cabs use mixed driver sizes successfully due to the crossovers used which is what I do. Guitar speakers cater well enough for the bottom 'E' (84Hz) give or take a few cpm
Bass speakers were around in the 50s for the early Bass guitars as they were in 62 when I started gigging, in the UK the 18" Goodmans Audiom 90 rated at 50 watts was the most desirable in those day although my bass version Vox AC30 only differed from the guitar version by the speaker suspensions used.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#16
Quote by Cajundaddy
A 4x10 will give you the punch and a 1x15 will give you the bottom but most bass players doing the heavy stuff like 600 watts so they never get near clipping. A well designed bass amp will give you better tone than a PA cab. Different designs for different purposes.


The 4x10 vs. 1x15 business is not true now, if it ever was. A 4x10 will go as low as (and sometimes lower than) a 15" cabinet. As you mention a bit lower down, it's all about the design.

There's also this: a lot of modern bass cabinets are FRFR (full range flat response), much like a PA system. I'm using 15/6/1 cabinets (single 15" LF, 6" mids, 1" HF driver) that will handle 900W without farting out (google: fEARless 15/6/1), will easily handle a 5-string and will outperform most 4x10s on their worst day. Best of all, they're smaller and MUCH lighter. The idea is that avoiding a "baked in" tone allows you to EQ almost any tone you want.

My bass amps are 1500W solid state, putting out 900W bridged, mono at 8 ohms, about 1400W bridged, mono, at 4 ohms (two cabinets). One of them is a power amp/preamp combination, another is the Carvin BX1500.
#17
Quote by John Swift

The powered cabs I build myself using 12mm braced plywood. 4x10s are bulky and expensive, one well known manufacturer of amps and cabs paid £9.50 each ex factory for the 75 watt 10s in their popular 4x10 cab that sold for £499 that leaves £461 to build a cab costing at the most £40 to make. Now you know why I build my own.


I think you might approve of some of what Alex Claber at Barefacedbass.com in the UK and Dave Green (www.greenboy.us) here in the states are designing. I've got fEARless f115's and fEARful 15/6/1's currently. These are braced, relatively lightweight cabinets using recent NEO pro audio speaker components. The fEARful designs are meant to be DIY, and the plans are free. Speakerhardware.com provides components and kits in any degree of completeness (including cut plywood, drivers, finished crossovers and even finishing supplies), and Dave has even maintained a network of "authorized builders" who meet his requirements for build quality and business ethics.

They're by no means the only ones producing some interesting and innovative cab designs, but it's worth calling attention to the fact that while 4x10s and 1x15s are the staples of larger bass cabinet manufacturers, there are a lot of options (and, to my mind, better ones) available.

I've been gigging a long time, but playing bass for a very short time. When I went looking for a rig in all my newbness, my initial exposure was to the 410 and 115 rigs you see everywhere, and to the 810s that had been the staple of the bass players I'd worked with. It took a bit of digging to find more modern systems, but I'm glad I spent the time to do so.