#1
Hello

So there is quite an easy to find list of "blues standard songs" aswell as jazz, but metal is some what elusive... and metal is hugely diverse - perhaps one of the most diverse these days...


Yet i cannot find a good list of metal standards so i can learn those songs, i only know so much metal and don't know good standards to learn the variety of genres in metal.

Is there any good lists out there for it ? Heck wikipedia has a blues standard list but no metal...quite annoying!
#2
blues standards and jazz standards are songs that are fun to play because all you have to know is the basic chords progression and melody and you just make up the rest as you go along. They're for improvising on. The whole point of it is making it your own. This doesn't really work for metal or rock or anything more riff based because you have to play it almost exactly the same for it to be recognizable. The only real spot you can improv is during the solo if the song has one.

So, just learn songs by metal bands you like.
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Apr 9, 2014,
#3
Quote by The4thHorsemen
blues standards and jazz standards are songs that are fun to play because all you have to know is the basic chords progression and melody and you just make up the rest as you go along. They're for improvising on. The whole point of it is making it your own. This doesn't really work for metal or rock or anything more riff based because you have to play it almost exactly the same for it to be recognizable. The only real spot you can improv is during the solo if the song has one.

So, just learn songs by metal bands you like.


Sorry Loui... I couldn't disagree with you more, perhaps it's just not your thing and comes off as sounding clichéd and all rolled into one.

@TS: from Maiden to ...Machine Head to ...Pantera to ...8 Ft Sativa to ...Lamb of God to ...Black Dahlia Murder etc... all same basic underlying structures and diatonic harmonies, yet considerably different in execution and final outcome!

...even just have a listen to the opening lick of the song "Iron Maiden" and you could probably come up with a tonne of diverse ideas that you would later credit to that one particular lick.
I saw a vid of Lars Ulrich sharing how "Jump In The Fire" was their version of Iron Maiden's "Run To The Hills"...

The Metal Genre & Psyche is a completely different idiom and head space to Blues & Jazz... but get the right guys in the same room together and you can bet they'll have no trouble elaborately jamming and fusing the old with the new in completely creative ways...

peace!!
Last edited by tonibet72 at Apr 9, 2014,
#4
Well, the thing is, metal is a pretty diverse genre. People could probably give you Thrash standards or Black Metal standards. Etc. Etc. But, due to the diversity of Metal, you really have to get specific to get standards.
#5
The4thHorsemen is right in that there's no Heavy Metal equivalent of "I Got Rhythm" (a song that was more or less made for improvisation). If you want good beginner songs try "Crazy Train" (Ozzy), "Iron Man" (Black Sabbath), or "Breaking the Law" (Judas Priest). All three are really easy to learn at least the riff of and a lot of fun too. Overall Metal's too recent for unauthorized improvisations and too diverse for any other suggestions (do you want Thrash, Death, Black, Power, Doom or other stuff).

Have a nice day.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Apr 9, 2014,
#6
I guess I wasn't exactly correct in saying you can't take a metal song, improv on it, and make it your own. I just meant that it's not a really common thing to do, so therefore there are no "standards" in the same sense as jazz. My point is that most people playing Paranoid by Black Sabbath just play a cover, whereas most people playing Autumn Leaves by whoever the hell wrote that song just take the basic melody and chords and do whatever they want with it.

Of course, you have stuff like this:
http://youtu.be/DWLHSRnVqug

But it's kinda rare and so not really standard.


Edit: If TS just meant more popular songs, then it depends on what subgenre you want. Metal is such a broad category that without some direction I would just start naming the slightly more well known bands that I like, such as Cynic, Death, Opeth, Nile, Meshuggah, Amon Amarth, etc. but none of them are really "standard" except maybe within their respective subgenres.

Otherwise I'd just say stuff like Slayer, Metallica, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera... basically things that you hear on the radio.
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Apr 10, 2014,
#7
Yeah, I agree with The4thHorsemen. There are "metal standards" but they are not like jazz or blues standards.

But yeah, some songs I would call "metal standards" are Iron Man by Black Sabbath, Master of Puppets by Metallica, The Trooper by Iron Maiden, Angel of Death by Slayer, Peace Sells by Megadeth, Breaking the Law by Judas Priest... All the most famous metal songs that everybody knows. But again, they differ a lot from jazz standards and The4thHorsemen explained it.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
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Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#8
Quote by tonibet72
Sorry Loui... I couldn't disagree with you more, perhaps it's just not your thing and comes off as sounding clichéd and all rolled into one.

@TS: from Maiden to ...Machine Head to ...Pantera to ...8 Ft Sativa to ...Lamb of God to ...Black Dahlia Murder etc... all same basic underlying structures and diatonic harmonies, yet considerably different in execution and final outcome!

...even just have a listen to the opening lick of the song "Iron Maiden" and you could probably come up with a tonne of diverse ideas that you would later credit to that one particular lick.
I saw a vid of Lars Ulrich sharing how "Jump In The Fire" was their version of Iron Maiden's "Run To The Hills"...

The Metal Genre & Psyche is a completely different idiom and head space to Blues & Jazz... but get the right guys in the same room together and you can bet they'll have no trouble elaborately jamming and fusing the old with the new in completely creative ways...

peace!!


Not the same thing as a standard.
#9
Is there a resource that is free that cross references all the metal standards one to another? Example: AISI, SAE, ASTM, UNS, ect. Like this ASTM B26 is equal to SAE J452
#10
Things like Enter Sandman and Ace Of Spades. Established tracks which often have solo sections and are learned by EVERYONE.
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#11
Quote by tonibet72
Sorry Loui... I couldn't disagree with you more, perhaps it's just not your thing and comes off as sounding clichéd and all rolled into one.

@TS: from Maiden to ...Machine Head to ...Pantera to ...8 Ft Sativa to ...Lamb of God to ...Black Dahlia Murder etc... all same basic underlying structures and diatonic harmonies, yet considerably different in execution and final outcome!

...even just have a listen to the opening lick of the song "Iron Maiden" and you could probably come up with a tonne of diverse ideas that you would later credit to that one particular lick.
I saw a vid of Lars Ulrich sharing how "Jump In The Fire" was their version of Iron Maiden's "Run To The Hills"...

The Metal Genre & Psyche is a completely different idiom and head space to Blues & Jazz... but get the right guys in the same room together and you can bet they'll have no trouble elaborately jamming and fusing the old with the new in completely creative ways...

peace!!


He's actually spot on and you're off the mark. In jazz and blues there is tradition of being able to simply pick up and play a standard with a group people you've never even played with on the spot ( which are typically easier and older tunes)- this is done in live settings all the time at jazz and blues concerts. That's why you often see people with fake books at loose jazz gigs. Good jazz musicians can crank through standards without any rehearsal in any key. You can't really do that with a metal song, or a classical song for that matter, since the riffs and structures are very specific and intricate and they don't lend themselves well to loose improvisation. You can't just play off a chord sheet for metal, you either know the riffs or you don't.
#12
Quote by reverb66
He's actually spot on and you're off the mark. In jazz and blues there is tradition of being able to simply pick up and play a standard with a group people you've never even played with on the spot ( which are typically easier and older tunes)- this is done in live settings all the time at jazz and blues concerts. That's why you often see people with fake books at loose jazz gigs. Good jazz musicians can crank through standards without any rehearsal in any key. You can't really do that with a metal song, or a classical song for that matter, since the riffs and structures are very specific and intricate and they don't lend themselves well to loose improvisation. You can't just play off a chord sheet for metal, you either know the riffs or you don't.

I disagree!! (for the reasons I gave, plus over 20 years in the genre)
#13
Yeah I've heard of jazz standards but have never once seen 'metal' standards mentioned.

There's obviously all classics that everyone learns. Like some of the guys have mentioned, Iron Man (first song I ever learned ), Breaking the Law, I would throw Sweet Child O' Mine by Gn'R in there, and probably Ride the Lightning by Metallica.
#14
Quote by tonibet72
I disagree!! (for the reasons I gave, plus over 20 years in the genre)


Alright. Next time you go to a local metal gig show up with a chord chart of Master of Puppets and ask the guys to sit in and improvise around it. Let us know how how that works out ...
#15
Quote by aiza55
Is there a resource that is free that cross references all the metal standards one to another? Example: AISI, SAE, ASTM, UNS, ect. Like this ASTM B26 is equal to SAE J452


this is amazing
Honestly can't tell if it's a spambot or someone very confused who googled metal standards.

EDIT: Oh, it's either a very elaborate spambot or a joke. Ok then.
Last edited by sickman411 at May 9, 2014,
#16
Quote by reverb66
Alright. Next time you go to a local metal gig show up with a chord chart of Master of Puppets and ask the guys to sit in and improvise around it. Let us know how how that works out ...

FYI: We used to do that sorta thing all the time... anyway what's up with the attitude?
It's not like I questioned your mother's heritage... relax buddy?
#17
Quote by tonibet72
It's not like I questioned your mother's heritage


LOL, can't say I've heard that one.
#19
Quote by tonibet72
I disagree!! (for the reasons I gave, plus over 20 years in the genre)


You didn't really give any reasons though. It's not a question of how creative Metal musicians are or their ability to improvise, it's a question of the role that improvisation plays in the musical culture. Imagine if there was a legal ban on improvisation, that would be pretty much the end of Jazz. People might still write things that sounded a bit 'Jazzy' but it would be Jazz in the same way that a vaguely human shaped lump of flesh and bone without a heart or a brain is a human being.

Metal might suffer from a few guitarists having panic attacks when they realise they can't just wing all their solos and hope for the best anymore, but it'd still be Metal in the same way that a human being who's been shot in the foot is still a human being even though he might have more trouble walking around now than he did before.

My advice to the OP would be first to think about what you want to do. If you want to play in a rock covers band then maybe learning a few well known Iron Maiden and Judas Priest singles would be a good plan. Otherwise, just learn songs you like.
.
#20
Quote by tonibet72
FYI: We used to do that sorta thing all the time... anyway what's up with the attitude?
It's not like I questioned your mother's heritage... relax buddy?


Didn't mean to be rude, I apologize for that.

However, I don't think you're getting my point and I simply don't agree with your posts, nothing personal. The point is that metal is not a genre that has a tradition of standards in the way the term ist historically used for genres like blues and jazz. You may not be familiar with how jazz and blues musicians operate, but it's nothing like metal musicians. In jazz, especially, the focus is largely on improvising around tunes. Even the chord voicings are improvised on the fly. If you go down to a jazz festival gig, chances are the players don't all play together often and they will simply call out tunes and jam away at them, glancing at the chord chart from time to time. This lends itself well to the style of music.

In metal, that approach would a complete disaster - the riffs and arrangements are too intricate, even with some of the simpler older stuff. If someone has never heard Rust in Peace and you throw a chord chart in front of him on stage - it just isn't gonna happen.
#21
I suspect things aren't as spontaneous as you believe in Jazz and Blues. Yes, improv is a much bigger thing in those genres than in Metal. BUT most of the bands that do great improv sessions are improving over songs that they know and have practiced many, many times.


For example, Duke Ellington is a good one. He was a bit of dick, in that he would get two guys arguing and then have them "settle" it by seeing who could do the best improv during their performances. In the end, both guys would end up impressed with the other's solos, though. So, it worked out.

But see, everyone knew the songs/pieces in and out. They could do unexpected things, because they knew -- sonically -- that it would work. (You could potentially do the same thing with any genre, btw. It's just that Metal doesn't have a tradition of improv, and there's generally less instruments in a metal band than there is a jazz ensemble. Even a small Jazz ensemble has more a "backing" chordal base than most metal bands.) Anyway, point is, Jazz musicians study songs and learn them to the point that they know them in and out, which is why you have such great improv in Jazz.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 10, 2014,
#22
Quote by tonibet72
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at first I thought it was plague angel


It's from the album cover of Avenged Sevenfold's 1st album Sounding the Seventh Trumpet.
#23
Quote by tonibet72
I disagree!! (for the reasons I gave, plus over 20 years in the genre)

Metal songs are songs. Jazz is just jazz. They are more like themes and chords. Jazz music isn't usually that well planned. What happens in a piece is about how the band improvises. The basic jazz piece structure is melody - improvisation (over the chords behind the melody) - melody. In metal pieces there are many different sections and everything is pretty much planned. There are guitar solos that can be improvised. But the whole point of jazz music is improvising. As reverb66 said, if improvisation was banned, jazz would stop existing. Metal doesn't really need improvisation.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#24
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Metal songs are songs. Jazz is just jazz. They are more like themes and chords. Jazz music isn't usually that well planned. What happens in a piece is about how the band improvises. The basic jazz piece structure is melody - improvisation (over the chords behind the melody) - melody. In metal pieces there are many different sections and everything is pretty much planned. There are guitar solos that can be improvised. But the whole point of jazz music is improvising. As reverb66 said, if improvisation was banned, jazz would stop existing. Metal doesn't really need improvisation.

Good for you bud, i'm glad you're happy!