#1
Heya

I've had my JCM 800 2204 for about a year now. I love it, it's an awesome amp with lots of distortion, it pretty much has everything I want, except for a good clean channel :/
I've been fine without a nice clean sound for over a year and the music me and my band plays doesn't require the cleanest sound, I've been fine with just chaning the volume on my guitar.
Lately I've just had these thoughts (since I started listening to NOFX pretty much ) that I want a clean sound and how many opportunities it would open.

So the guitarist of NOFX apperently uses a Blackstar HT Club 50 in the studio, he also gave a quick demo of it.

Now I'm not aiming at one amp just because one of my favorite guitarists uses it, but it seemed quite nice. I also know blackstar isn't very popular at UG, but please try and see this with your non-biased eye.

So anyway, what amps (heads, pref. 50w) would you guys suggest I look into? I play in a punk band and we do gig. Keep the price around 900-1000 USD.

Thanks in advance
#2
If you like your JCM800, look at a used JCM 2000 DSL 50. You have a really nice clean and a Hotrod 800 tone on the lead channel.

From my understanding, Heffe and Eric use Mesa Mark series well since the early 90's
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
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#3
Quote by Robbgnarly
If you like your JCM800, look at a used JCM 2000 DSL 50. You have a really nice clean and a Hotrod 800 tone on the lead channel.

From my understanding, Heffe and Eric use Mesa Mark series well since the early 90's

Yeah, they do. Although apparently Hefe uses an HT 50 club in the studio at some occasions

Okay, I'll check it out.
Another thing that seemed cool with the blackstar is the ISF feature
#4
Quote by juliusxxrock
Yeah, they do. Although apparently Hefe uses an HT 50 club in the studio at some occasions

Okay, I'll check it out.
Another thing that seemed cool with the blackstar is the ISF feature

The only Blackstar worth looking at is the Series One. The HT series is a pretty average sounding amp, but the price and the company's lies about the HT series is why most people here don't like them
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#5
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#7
They lie about them being all tube.


When I saw NOFX they were using Rectos.
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#8
Quote by juliusxxrock
Hmm, lies? What sort of lies?

They claim to be an "all tube amp, but they are in fact a hybrid amp. Now that doesn't mean good or bad, but you should be up front about it and not mislead people to sell your product.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#10
Quote by juliusxxrock
Okay, that doesn't make me feel very comfortable about their HT amp:/

But the JCM 2000 dsl 50 and the JCM 800 2205, do they feel similar to the jcm 800 2204?
I live in Sweden, so it's hard for me to try them out

yes they feel similar, but they are different. Go try them out if you can
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#11
Quote by Robbgnarly
yes they feel similar, but they are different. Go try them out if you can

It seems at the moment that I have no possibilities to try the 2205 (I don't think it's common in Sweden) and the same thing goes for the JCM :/

My local store has a Blackstar ht-club and stage in stock though, might aswell check them out, even though I'm sceptical now that I saw how cheap they were new..
Last edited by juliusxxrock at Apr 14, 2014,
#12
Quote by juliusxxrock
It seems at the moment that I have no possibilities to try the 2205 (I don't think it's common in Sweden) and the same thing goes for the JCM :/

My local store has a Blackstar ht-club and stage in stock though, might aswell check them out, even though I'm sceptical

Yeah go try some amps. If you can find a Jet City to try, give it a spin, they are really nice amps
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#13
Personally I think the 2205 is rubbish - and not particularly easy to mod either. You're better off with a DSL or a JCA50/100 than a 2205/2210.
But I'll say it again, they used Rectos when I saw them. Maybe later they've started using more British sounding amps but I bet the stuff you're listening to was done on a Recto. ie. Classic NOFX is Recto.
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Cathbard Amplification
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#14
Quote by Cathbard
Personally I think the 2205 is rubbish - and not particularly easy to mod either. You're better off with a DSL or a JCA50/100 than a 2205/2210.
But I'll say it again, they used Rectos when I saw them. Maybe later they've started using more British sounding amps but I bet the stuff you're listening to was done on a Recto. ie. Classic NOFX is Recto.

Yeah, Recto's are out of my price range

Yeah, I think Hefe started using Friedman amps, Melvin stuck with Mark IV/V.
I'm going to one of their concerts in less than a month, I'm gonna try and snap some pictures of their amps

From watching videos of the 2205 I didn't quite like the clean channel of it, sounded a little like my JCM's "rolled back volume clean", which is kind of what I'm trying to escape.
The DSL is suuuper rare in Sweden, can't find it anywhere, which is a bummer
Last edited by juliusxxrock at Apr 14, 2014,
#15
I suppose the Laney VH100R is out of the question too then?

It would be worth your while checking out Jet City if you can. They'd suit your needs fairly well too and they're a lot cheaper.

The problem with the 2205 is this really shitty SS clipper circuit. It's not good. If you mod them they sound a LOT better. But as I said it isn't that easy to do. You don't just have to take out the clipper like you do with a Mk3 JCM900, you also have to relocate the gain control to a different part of the circuit. It's a whole big thing. I think it's better to just avoid them. It was the beginning of a pretty dark time. Stoopid, stoopid circuitry.
The architects of all that SS tomfoolery during that time ended up starting Blackstar and started doing the same shenaigans there. Marshall stopped doing all that with the 900 SL/X on and never went back to it.
Gilchrist custom
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Marshall 18W clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 14, 2014,
#16
Quote by Cathbard
I suppose the Laney VH100R is out of the question too then?

It would be worth your while checking out Jet City if you can. They'd suit your needs fairly well too.

The problem with the 2205 is this really shitty SS clipper circuit. It's not good. If you mod them they sound a LOT better. But as I said it isn't that easy to do. You don't just have to take out the clipper like you do with a Mk3 JCM900, you also have to relocate the gain control to a different part of the circuit. It's a whole big thing. I think it's better to just avoid them. It was the beginning of a pretty dark time. Stoopid, stoopid circuitry.
The architects of all that SS tomfoolery during that time ended up starting Blackstar and started doing the same shenaigans there. Marshall stopped doing all that with the 900 SL/X on and never went back to it.

From the little I've heard from the VH100, it has a pretty harsh clean tone, but I can't completely exclude an amp yet.

I've been looking for a store that has the Jet City for awhile now, but these kind-of-famous brands doesn't quite reach Sweden.
The JCM 900, what's your opinion on that? It's got a pretty smooth clean tone.
#17
There are three different JCM900's. Only the Dual Reverb has a clean channel.
It's not a bad amp but channel 2 is a pig's breakfast until you mod it. Same clipper as the 2205/2210. I removed it on mine. Not a particularly hard mod, the hardest part is lifting the board out enough to get at the underside to solder. You pull out the bridge rectifier in the clipper (yes, that's what it uses; a little bridge and a diode) and replace it with a 100K or thereabouts resistor. I use 100K.
If you do that it sounds pretty good. You'll actually end up with more gain on tap and the distortion it produces is tube distortion. All they did was replace tube distortion with diode clipping. Perhaps the dumbest piece of circuit design ever. Yes, you heard me right, removing the clipper results in more available distortion and it's better. I mean seriously, wtf?

Channel 1 is far better, I didn't even bother to mod that channel even though it's easy to do. Here's the thing, Channel 1 has what is essentially a tubescreamer built in and channel 2 has a fuzz box. You can live with the tubescreamer, it doesn't sound too bad at all. With the gain down channel 1's cleans are pretty sweet.


Now I use a Randall RM100. Now that's the amp you want. I have Fender cleans, Marshall crunch and Mesa leads all in the one box. I guess that's well out of order over there though, no?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 14, 2014,
#18
Quote by Cathbard
There are three different JCM900's. Only the Dual Reverb has a clean channel.
It's not a bad amp but channel 2 is a pig's breakfast until you mod it. Same clipper as the 2205/2210. I removed it on mine. Not a particularly hard mod, the hardest part is lifting the board out enough to get at the underside to solder. You pull out the bridge rectifier in the clipper (yes, that's what it uses; a little bridge and a diode) and replace it with a 100K or thereabouts resistor. I use 100K.
If you do that it sounds pretty good. You'll actually end up with more gain on tap and the distortion it produces is tube distortion. All they did was replace tube distortion with diode clipping. Perhaps the dumbest piece of circuit design ever. Yes, you heard me right, removing the clipper results in more available distortion and it's better. I mean seriously, wtf?

Channel 1 is far better, I didn't even bother to mod that channel even though it's easy to do. Here's the thing, Channel 1 has what is essentially a tubescreamer built in and channel 2 has a fuzz box. You can live with the tubescreamer, it doesn't sound too bad at all. With the gain down channel 1's cleans are pretty sweet.


Now I use a Randall RM100. Now that's the amp you want. I have Fender cleans, Marshall crunch and Mesa leads all in the one box. I guess that's well out of order over there though, no?

I suppose that mod is still too hard for a newbie who's biggest mod is changing a pickup? And get yet shit together marshall

Anything affordable for me is in the picture, I guess
#19
They sorta did get their shit together after the JCM900.

It's a pretty tricky mod if you aren't very techie. It involves removing the circuit board pretty much and the PCB in a 900 DR is pretty big. Then you have to desolder and remove the bridge and solder in a resistor between two of the four holes it leaves behind.
You may like it stock anyway. It's a pretty popular punk amp stock. Steve Jones used one on the Sex pistols' Filthy Lucre tour.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#20
Quote by Cathbard
They sorta did get their shit together after the JCM900.

It's a pretty tricky mod if you aren't very techie. It involves removing the circuit board pretty much and the PCB in a 900 DR is pretty big. Then you have to desolder and remove the bridge and solder in a resistor between two of the four holes it leaves behind.
You may like it stock anyway. It's a pretty popular punk amp stock. Steve Jones used one on the Sex pistols' Filthy Lucre tour.

Yeah, Lars Frederiksen from Rancid uses one (stock or not, I don't know).

Does it have a golden year of production?
#21
No.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
It might be difficult to find one where you are, but look for a Krank Nineteen 80(or Chadwick). I can testify to the 1980 being a very nice amp that feels much like an 800 with an added clean channel. I would much prefer one of these over any of Marshall's later offerings, which sound reminiscent of the classic amps, but lack the balls and mojo.
#24
could you get an roland JC120 Or JC60? and an A/B switch to go to dirt from the marshall and pure cleans on the other side from the roland and have best of both world?
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#25
Or get an RM100.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#26
The 2205/2210 sounds like ass to me. The JCM900, especially modded, are pretty nice, but a modded MKIII is going to sound very very close to your 800. If your 800 won't cut it for British sounds, it's probably not the right character for you.
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#27
I am still on an endless quest to find my amp character, and I am definitely not certain that the JCM is my type.

I tried out a blackstar combo today (I know it's not the same as the head, but it should give me somewhat of an idea what it's like). TBH it was meh, the ISF feature wasn't really that nice as I had hoped, and it sounded like any cheap knock off marshall amp, really.
Just thought I'd share that :P
Last edited by juliusxxrock at Apr 15, 2014,
#28
Quote by juliusxxrock
I am still on an endless quest to find my amp character, and I am definitely not certain that the JCM is my type.

I tried out a blackstar combo today (I know it's not the same as the head, but it should give me somewhat of an idea what it's like). TBH it was meh, the ISF feature wasn't really that nice as I had hoped, and it sounded like any cheap knock off marshall amp, really.
Just thought I'd share that :P

That's pretty much how I felt about them. Good luck in the amp search

Maybe try a Peavey JSX if you get a chance, great amps
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#30
Quote by juliusxxrock
I'll check it out, and thanks!

No amp with a clean channel is going to be nearly as good as the JCM at what it does. If you can sacrifice the fat, 3D crunch in favor of more functionality, then there are many amps that will suit your needs.
#31
Quote by classicrocker01
The 2205/2210 sounds like ass to me. The JCM900, especially modded, are pretty nice, but a modded MKIII is going to sound very very close to your 800. If your 800 won't cut it for British sounds, it's probably not the right character for you.
THe Mk3 has no clean channel which is why I didn't go into the charms of the modded Mk3.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
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Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#33
I don't have one, sorry.
Btw, just so you know, that isn't the only SS bit in the Dual Reverb. The amp has something like 20 op-amps in there. It is actually a hybrid masquerading as a tube amp. The op-amps aren't so bad though, it's the clipper on channel 2 is the real problem. Without it the rest of the SS stuff in the preamp is just a clean boost.
It also uses op-amps for the master volumes and FX loops as do all of the 900's including the SL/X. Those things aren't a big concern really though.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band