Page 1 of 2
#1
I have been playing guitar for just about 5 years. I understand that amps help a great deal with tone, but I can't quite figure out what the big deal is with amp modeling. Why put an amp model in a mfx board when you can get a similar sound by using distortion and eq pedals? That being said, why have an amp at all when you can get similar sounds from other pedals? It's all going through the PA anyways (unless it's not, then you would need one for volume, but we're not talking about volume here).



Just a simple question, please don't respond with sarcasm. I've been playing for five years, sometimes the most obvious things just get by you.
Last edited by JHop19 at Apr 15, 2014,
#4
Why drive a car, when you could drive a motorcycle? Why drive a motorcycle, when a bike will get you there, too?

The purpose of an amplifier is to amplify, as has already been said. Some people are fine using pedals for their sound and some people are fine going without an amplifier and going directly into the PA and using headphones at home and then there is the vast majority of guitarists who actually like to play into a real amplifier, rather than trying to emulate it with a bunch of boxes on the floor.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#5
The reason behind mfx processors is versatility.

Say you like AB864 cleans AND VH4's channel three.
An AB864 will not sound like a VH4's channel three and a VH4 will not sound like an AB864, and the closest you can get to both without buying the two of them is using an amp modeler.

People say they like the feel of analog tube amps and their tone and stuff.
To me, making an amp modeler sound good is expensive and unpractical for what I do.
Plus I like just taking up the guitar and flipping a switch and poof, there I have my sound.
I like physical stuff.
Some people also play blues and just that.
Some people on the other hand play country and djent and they want to play through the same thing and get convincing sounds for both.

Going through a PA system is a way of making the sound coming out of your amp heard, so it's not really useful if you don't have an amp you like the sound of.
I mean it'd still amplify the sound but it'd not sound really nice.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#6
It's all up to preference. I know Twelve Foot Ninja, a band I love very much, tours without amps. The just have POD HD500s going to front of house.

Some people like the tone of a Diezel, some like the tone of a Marshall, some like both and the whacky sounds you get out of an Axe FX. All in all it rally is what will give you the exact sound you need and will do it reliably and is most cost effective.
Gibson RD Silverburst w/ Lace Dissonant Aggressors (SOLD)
Electra Omega Prime Ceruse
Fender Franken-Jag Bass

Amps and the like:
Laney VH100R
Seismic Luke 2x12
Dunlop 105Q Wah
Gojira FX 808
Line 6 M9
#7
I've yet to come across any amp that sounds as natural, and IMO as good as an amp. There is yet to be produced any pedals that I like the sound of as much as an amp. That's the point for me.
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#8
Quote by classicrocker01
I've yet to come across any amp that sounds as natural, and IMO as good as an amp.


yeah amps don't sound like amps, to my ears anyway
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
When you put yourself through the PA you take away a lot of the control in volume and tone and put it in the hands of a sound engineer and hope that the PA system is capable of giving you back the sound you want through the monitors. Having an amp on stage puts the control in your hands. It can be miked and sent through the PA but at least you start by getting the sound you want first. I use a small VOX VT 30 amp that also mic through the PA just for a fuller sound and balance. As far as recording, sometimes I can get away with recording directly from an effects pedal but I find that the guitar coming through a speaker is a much more punchy and fuller sound. If you don't think you need an amp, maybe you don't.
#10
For me it is just the sheer enjoyment of moving air around the room. I use lots of amp sims too but i still love the volume of my half-stack.
#11
Quote by soulgrenade
For me it is just the sheer enjoyment of moving air around the room. I use lots of amp sims too but i still love the volume of my half-stack.

This. I can't stand headphones for guitar. That "power" just isn't there.
Ibanez Prestige RG852MPB
Ibanez Prestige RG652KFX
ESP E-II M-1
LTD AW-7
Schecter Loomis NT
EVH 5150 III 50
PRS 212 DB
Line 6 POD HD500X
Deadhorse OD/Boss HM-2
#13
Quote by JHop19
Why put an amp model in a mfx board when you can get a similar sound by using distortion and eq pedals?
Why buy a distortion and eq pedal to get an amp sound when you can get a lot of amp sounds from one multifx? Does that question give you a clue to the answer to your question?
#14
Quote by lemurflames
This. I can't stand headphones for guitar. That "power" just isn't there.


boom... +1

but on the other hand, it actually makes your playing a LOT cleaner.
#15
Quote by JHop19
I have been playing guitar for just about 5 years. I understand that amps help a great deal with tone, but I can't quite figure out what the big deal is with amp modeling. Why put an amp model in a mfx board when you can get a similar sound by using distortion and eq pedals? That being said, why have an amp at all when you can get similar sounds from other pedals? It's all going through the PA anyways (unless it's not, then you would need one for volume, but we're not talking about volume here).



Just a simple question, please don't respond with sarcasm. I've been playing for five years, sometimes the most obvious things just get by you.

The part you seem to be missing is that amps don't just make the signal louder, they 'color' it as well. Whereas a PA or hi-fi system simply reproduces the exact sound but louder, guitar amps (due to both circuits and speakers) add a bit of their own 'flavor' to the sound. A modeling amp attempts to give some of the flavor of whatever amp it is emulating. Pedals don't really do that, for the most part. An OD pedal adds overdrive sounds by clipping, but it doesn't emulate the flavor added by an amp/speaker.

People often overlook this fact. Guitar amps are kind of part of the electric guitar instrument. Unlike other instruments where the sound they produce is already desirable, electric guitar's direct output is not desirable... Until it hits an amp or amp modeling.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#16
Quote by cha33 armstrong
To amplify


simply put. this.


if you're asking about sound quality... then read on..


if there was even a single pedal/multifx/amp sim rack or software that could actually
truly replicate the sound of an amp.. then Marshall, Mesa, Peavey, Randall, Krank, Brunetti, Bugera, VHT, Engl, Blackstar, Soldano, H&K and all the other amp manufacturers would be outta business. Im sure everyone would much rather buy a $200 pedal, which takes up very little space and costs almost nothing (compared to the big amps) if it actually sounded remotely as good as an amp
#17
Cause I like 'em. Hell, I now have more amps than guitars. There's just something magical about guitar amps that I find incredibly appealing/amusing. Even besides the functionality.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#18
Quote by The SoundGuy
simply put. this.


if you're asking about sound quality... then read on..


if there was even a single pedal/multifx/amp sim rack or software that could actually
truly replicate the sound of an amp.. then Marshall, Mesa, Peavey, Randall, Krank, Brunetti, Bugera, VHT, Engl, Blackstar, Soldano, H&K and all the other amp manufacturers would be outta business.



Have you heard of the Kemper Profiling Amplifier?

http://www.kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang/en/p/184/do/Kemper_Profiling_Amplifier___KPA___Guitar_Amplification_Redefined.html
#19
Many venues I play have their own amps or PA.

So my HALO is there for consistency of sound no matter what amp or PA.

I dislike modeling equipment due to the time needed to change settings. If I had my sound guy at every show I might use modeling. As it is, things are much simpler without it.
#20
Quote by KG6_Steven


yes... i have and its still nothing close to the real deal. sounds a bit digital.
and it doesnt have half the sonic goodies that a real amp/cab does
dont get me wrong... its amazing piece of hardware... but just lacks some awesomeness.
although its cool that you can have soo many tones from just one unit... A for effort and idea. F for execution.
#21
Quote by The SoundGuy
yes... i have and its still nothing close to the real deal. sounds a bit digital.
and it doesnt have half the sonic goodies that a real amp/cab does
dont get me wrong... its amazing piece of hardware... but just lacks some awesomeness.
although its cool that you can have soo many tones from just one unit... A for effort and idea. F for execution.

Something tells me you've never tried one...

I own a Peavey 5150, Mesa Roadster and 30w Bogner 101b prototype... and once profiled, my Kemper is indistinguishable from the real amp.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#22
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah amps don't sound like amps, to my ears anyway


Agreed! I've had a few amps that sounded like amps, but some of my amps didn't sound like amps at all...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#23
Quote by MatrixClaw
Something tells me you've never tried one...

I own a Peavey 5150, Mesa Roadster and 30w Bogner 101b prototype... and once profiled, my Kemper is indistinguishable from the real amp.


never tried one, but i've heard enough samples of it to know what it sounds like though.
and remember, theres a reason malmsteen, gilbert, uli etc are using real amps.. and not profilers or axe fx n etc

its the same reason why big studios have stacks of amps and cabs... not just an axe-fx and a kemper

#24
Because sound quality. There is no digital effect pedal that can actually replicate the sound of a giant tube amp, and there never will be. Digital can't do it. Period. And as for analog distortion stomp-boxes, or other effects like that, they can sound great, but they don't work on their own. They still need to be ran through an amplifier. And they sound much better run through a real tube amp with a warm clean channel than directly into a PA system.

If you think your effects pedals sound good enough to bypass an amp entirely, you've never played with a good amp. That's really all there is to it. Large, powerful (and expensive) amplifiers exist, and continue to exist, for a reason. They sound better than any other option.

Oh, and as for the Axe-FX.. It's awesome as hell, and sounds amazing, but there's a reason why the best of the best who use them (Steve Vai, John Petrucci, etc.), just use them for effects, and still run the signal through it to their amps. Can you guess why? Spoiler alert: because it sounds better than going straight through to the PA system.
Last edited by the_bi99man at Apr 15, 2014,
#25
Quote by Arby911
Agreed! I've had a few amps that sounded like amps, but some of my amps didn't sound like amps at all...


I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
Quote by The SoundGuy
never tried one, but i've heard enough samples of it to know what it sounds like though.
and remember, theres a reason malmsteen, gilbert, uli etc are using real amps.. and not profilers or axe fx n etc

its the same reason why big studios have stacks of amps and cabs... not just an axe-fx and a kemper


Dude... Matrix has had more amps through his possession than most studios. I think you need to watch who you're winking at.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#27
Quote by tubetime86
Dude... Matrix has had more amps through his possession than most studios. I think you need to watch who you're winking at.

I thought the same thing and chuckled when I read that post. Nothing wrong with debate but a misguided wink can really make you look (read) like an ass.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#28
Quote by The SoundGuy
and remember, theres a reason malmsteen, gilbert, uli etc are using real amps.. and not profilers or axe fx n etc

its the same reason why big studios have stacks of amps and cabs... not just an axe-fx and a kemper

Full of assumptions today, eh?
#29
I think price is a factor.

Setting up digital modeling is a pain in the ass, but once you get over the initial hump, adding additional digital models (even in very large amounts like PODs have) is relatively painless.

On the other hand, chaining together linear analog circuits pretty much just increases cost (and space) linearly.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#30
I modeled my jet city with a kemper once.

it sounded better on recording because you don't have the hassle of the noise that comes with real amps and the whole "Goddamnit ive walked into the mic stand again ****" thing
Vintage V-100, EMG 81&60
Chapman ML-1

Jet City JCA20H
#31
When I can play through a pa without it sounding like garbage compared to a quality tube amp then I finally will do so. While the Axe FX is an excellent option it's about a 2500 dollar setup. If there was something similar for a grand I'm sure I would use it.

But even an axe fx would sound like total shit coming through a peavey/samson pa a lot of bars/clubs seem to use. So going through the pa wouldn't be an option in that case.

Please let me hear your tone using a distortion pedal and eq through a pa. I would be surprised if it didn't sound like garbage.
Last edited by cheesefries at Apr 15, 2014,
#32
I don't even think the Axe sounds good live. I say this having seen multiple bands switch to them, and having seen them play in the past with their tube setups.

I have a POD HD and I wouldn't think about using it live.

Digital modeling is amazing for recording. For playing live? Nah. The feel, and the "oomph" and power isn't there.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#33
Quote by the_bi99man
Because sound quality. There is no digital effect pedal that can actually replicate the sound of a giant tube amp, and there never will be. Digital can't do it. Period. And as for analog distortion stomp-boxes, or other effects like that, they can sound great, but they don't work on their own. They still need to be ran through an amplifier. And they sound much better run through a real tube amp with a warm clean channel than directly into a PA system.

If you think your effects pedals sound good enough to bypass an amp entirely, you've never played with a good amp. That's really all there is to it. Large, powerful (and expensive) amplifiers exist, and continue to exist, for a reason. They sound better than any other option.

Oh, and as for the Axe-FX.. It's awesome as hell, and sounds amazing, but there's a reason why the best of the best who use them (Steve Vai, John Petrucci, etc.), just use them for effects, and still run the signal through it to their amps. Can you guess why? Spoiler alert: because it sounds better than going straight through to the PA system.


Absolute and utter elitist tripe.

I bet you still prefer Vinyl records too?

And in a blind test, I'll bet you can't tell the difference.

Nor are there as many 'real' amps in use by touring acts as you think, but there are plenty out front for endorsements and to fool the rubes...

Some do, some don't simple as that. And the live audience doesn't know the difference.

Just.

Like.

You.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#34
Here's why I do.
I don't like relying on foldback to hear myself. Also it's not just about hearing myself, I need to be loud enough that I can get feedback easily, that amount of guitar through the wedges swamps the vocals and will piss everybody off, including myself.
Also, when it comes to dynamics, a real amp still has it over modelers. Now that doesn't matter with some styles of music as much as others but I have a stoopidly versatile amp which can do both stuff where a top end modeler is as capable AND the stuff where it isn't.
I intend to buy a HD500 in the future but I will not be using the modeling stuff in it because my amp is better - but I want the versatility of having so many effects on hand.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#35
Hey Cath, why not an M13? I feel like I've read that you can program MIDI changes in it like a POD.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#36
Yeah, the M13 is the other option that I am considering. The only reason I'd go for the HD500 instead would be the USB interface really. GT-100 is also in the running as well. It will probably be one of those three. I haven't decided and I won't be buying it for some time. Not sure which will win in the long run.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#37
I have never seen a kemper in person, but from clips i have are very impressive.

Not for me though, i just like good tube amps. I don't really have a ton of pedals (10 or so) i dont really use them other than a od wah and delay.

I just like to keep it simple. /. 02
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#38
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah amps don't sound like amps, to my ears anyway



Amp sim is what I meant
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#39
Quote by MatrixClaw
Something tells me you've never tried one...

I own a Peavey 5150, Mesa Roadster and 30w Bogner 101b prototype... and once profiled, my Kemper is indistinguishable from the real amp.
Maybe it's just me, maybe it were the profiles I tried, maybe it was the relatively low volume at which I was playing it, but running it through a fiftyonefifty (**** my phone) III into an EVH one by twelve (**** my phone again), it sounded pretty sterile.

All of the high gain sounds remimded me of softube's metal amp room.

Well just for the sake of this I'll try another ASAP I guess
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#40
Quote by fly135
Full of assumptions today, eh?


googled it just in case... nothing showed up
Page 1 of 2