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#1
I have a Fender Princeton Chorus amp and would like to find some way to make it have a tube amp sound. I wanted to put a Bogner head on it and have it rewired but a salesman said it would be too costly. I then looked at (on line) a Black Star Tube pedde HT Dual and watched the little sales move but wasn't impressed. But then I agree it's hard to judge audio thru a comuter. Help please. Limited budget just for in house use.
Attachments:
Fender amp.jpg
Last edited by offtheroad at Apr 22, 2014,
#2
Its pretty hard to recreate a tube sound without an actual tube amp.
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#3
Thanks for the speedy reply. I'm an old timer living in new technology and thought maybe there was a a magical answer.
#4
magical answer? no, unfortunately.

but imho, there is plenty of good sounding products out there that are good enough for me. i hold the unpopular opinion that digital modeling is actually pretty good (and i do own over a dozen tube amps), but i use some fairly nice gear with my modeling so it's not budget friendly.

but even a good setup with digital modeling doesn't react the same as my cranked tube amps, but i do enjoy the tones.
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Last edited by gumbilicious at Apr 22, 2014,
#5
The thing that goes most close to tubes outside tubes are computers.
Or chips or whatever, modeling stuff anyway, software or hybrid as in modeling amps.

So, yeah, a modeling amp'd be a nice idea.
Or softube's vintage amp room.

What's your budget and what kinda sounds do you want anyway?
Name's Luca.

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Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#6
Thanks all for the replys. I like a blues sound. My plan is to learn Logic Pro X mic my amp thru an Audiobox 22 VSL. I have a Denon tuner receiver 55 watt which I use to powere some custom made studio speakers. Not sure yet the price of a mic I need but this is all just for in house use.
My budget would be higher if I could get more graphic design freelance jobs but at the present maybe $250.00. I was hoping at the beginning of all this I could get a Bogner top and use my Fender just as the box?
#7
POD HD500. Find one used and plug it right into the FX return of your amp. Tons of sweet sweet amp models at your finger tips. Just gotta know how to do good patches.
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#8
Why not just get a lil tube amp? Something like an Epiphone Valve Jr, $100 used. Randall has a new 5w combo, I haven't tried one but they're not expensive. Lotsa people like the Vox ac4.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#9
Quote by offtheroad
Thanks all for the replys. I like a blues sound. My plan is to learn Logic Pro X mic my amp thru an Audiobox 22 VSL. I have a Denon tuner receiver 55 watt which I use to powere some custom made studio speakers. Not sure yet the price of a mic I need but this is all just for in house use.
My budget would be higher if I could get more graphic design freelance jobs but at the present maybe $250.00. I was hoping at the beginning of all this I could get a Bogner top and use my Fender just as the box?



i run a good guitar through a channel strip (presonus eureka) into a mid-range firewire interface (presonus firestudio) into logic. i'll use a number of different amp sims (revalver, amplitube or native logic amp sims) and run it through my PA.

i am actually pretty happy with the results.

i will mic up an amp when i can afford to turn them up, but i live in an apartment so that is usually not an option for me.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#11
Quote by offtheroad
Thanks all for the replys. I like a blues sound. My plan is to learn Logic Pro X mic my amp thru an Audiobox 22 VSL. I have a Denon tuner receiver 55 watt which I use to powere some custom made studio speakers. Not sure yet the price of a mic I need but this is all just for in house use.
My budget would be higher if I could get more graphic design freelance jobs but at the present maybe $250.00. I was hoping at the beginning of all this I could get a Bogner top and use my Fender just as the box?
Well the idea isn't that wrong, though you'll not get half a bogner with $250.
I like the Logic idea though, It'd probably work fine.

Plus logic already comes with all sorts of amp sims.
Just stay away from the "amp designer" and stick to the "guitar amp pro" and you'll be fine.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#12
Thanks, I realize how expensive the Bogner is. Whats your thoughts on the Audiobox 22 VSL. The reason for micing my amp is because when this all started a couple years ago I didn't like the Latency of only a fraction of a second going into garageband into my denon and out my speakers. So this guy at the one of two only guitar shops here in Albq, said if I mic my amp go into the Auciobox then into my mac I should be ok. But yes he wanted me to use presonus but I'll try Logic first since I already have it.
Last edited by offtheroad at Apr 22, 2014,
#13
Quote by offtheroad
Thanks, I realize how expensive the Bogner is. Whats your thoughts on the Audiobox 22 VSL. The reason for micing my amp is because when this all started a couple years ago I didn't like the Latency of only a fraction of a second going into garageband into my denon and out my speakers. So this guy at the one of two only guitar shops here in Albq, said if I mic my amp go into the Auciobox then into my mac I should be ok. But yes he wanted me to use presonus but I'll try Logic first since I already have it.


Well how were you plugging your guitar in before? If you were dealing with latency then you'll still have to deal with it if you're using a mic instead. There are settings you can use that can help minimize the latency inside of Logic.

But what I don't understand is... Are you trying to record your guitar?
#14
I'm new at this (using DAW's) so not too much laughing. Yes I'm tyring to use logic and Audiobox to minimize the latency and add some drums and base and just lay around. But the second part of all this when I want to get away from my Mac and play in the other room of my house I'd like to have the sound of a tube amp. So I guess i'll need to buy a small one.
TheStig1214 mentions amp models at your finger tips. Just gotta know how to do good patches. When he says patches what does that mean?
#15
patch = program
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#16
Wow works of art. I appreciate your designs. Too bad I can't test any that I could afford.
#17
You can test out the latency yourself for free. Plug your guitar into your Audiobox, and the Audiobox into your PC. The download a trial copy of Reaper and select some of the free amp models that come with it.

Then send the output to your audiobox and the output of teh audiobox into the input of your power amp.

You can tweak it to get the right latency and tone. Once you are happy you can decide whether to invest in a more fully featured amp modelling software, or if you are not happy, to invest in an amp.

I don't think you have fully exhausted all of your cost-free options yet.
#18
So what is the problem with useing Logic, thats my plan. I realize I can get a tube sound out of logic or whatever, but this discussion went in different directions, I just wanted to se if I could change my fender amp some how without sofware. I'm on a Mac not a PC.
#19
Quote by TheStig1214
POD HD500. Find one used and plug it right into the FX return of your amp. Tons of sweet sweet amp models at your finger tips. Just gotta know how to do good patches.

Can you explaine a bit more about your " how to do good patches"
Jim
#20
Well the POD (just one of many multi-effects units) contains a number of amplifier models built into it, along with other guitar effects pedals such as overdrives, delay, chorus etc.

You build up patches by selecting an amp model and tweaking its parameters, then adding a few effect models and tweaking those parameters. Your guitar goes in one side and the output goes to headphones or an amplifier and your in business.

You can even download patched form the internet that other users have put together to try to mimic famous tones.
#22
the only digital system ive not had the ability to tell isnt digital with accuracy is the axe fx. on some setting you can tell but its the only digital sytem i would use after being so used to tube amps. It is very expensive though and the better line 6 systems dont sound bad but almost nothing can a/b with a good tube amp
#23
Quote by offtheroad
Thanks I understand, can't I do the same thing in Logic? and this http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AudioBox22/
Yeah you could, and with logic you could do a shit ton more stuff, though mind that it's lotsa easier to dial in a good tone in a POD than in logic.

Also, for that money I'd rather get a mackie onyx blackjack.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#24
So why is mackie onyx blackjack better than Audiobox22? I can get the Audiobox 22 in town for around 132.00
Last edited by offtheroad at Apr 23, 2014,
#25
Better preamps and a way more comfortable to operate imo.
Though you don't get the midi i/o.

My suggestion was for that money anyway - if you find the audiobox for less, just take that, it'll do just fine for what you want.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#26
Thanks, the reason for the audio box was that if I Mic into it and then connect it to my Mac and also from Audiobox to my Denon tuner which powers my speakers (a little complicated for me to explain) then I was told I would't get any latency.
#28
You appear to want to head down the mic'd up amp route without trying out the other options which may well be cheaper and more convenient.

Don't be forced by fear of latency down the mic'd amp route. Latency isn't something that you need be overly concerned with if you have a reasonably modern machine (my laptop is 6 years old and doesn't get any latency), a USB 2.0 or Firewire connection, and a decent audio interface (again USB 2 or Firewire will do fine).

You should be aware that virtually all modern multifx units such as the Pod, the Zoom G3/G5 and Fender Mustang Floor all have audio interfaces built in, so you don't need to buy one seperately to try out. Having said that I don't know Macs; do they have USB ports?

The only advantages a DAW and Mac or PC gives you over a multifx unit is the ability to be more flexible in your choice of model and effects, and recording facilities. The advantage of the multifx unit is that you don't need to plug into a PC or Mac to use them. They even run off batteries.

Either option is a great way to go, as indeed is mic'ing up a valve amp, but choosing to mic up a valve amp because you want to avoid latency is not the best way forward im my mind.

My own choice would be to buy a Pod or similar because it will enable you to record without latency via the built in audio interface, and to practice independently of the computer should you wish.
#29
Quote by offtheroad
Thanks, the reason for the audio box was that if I Mic into it and then connect it to my Mac and also from Audiobox to my Denon tuner which powers my speakers (a little complicated for me to explain) then I was told I would't get any latency.
That's called direct monitoring, and while it'd work it's pretty useless since you wouldn't hear any of the processing that'd be happening in the computer.
If you're already playing through an amp, you'd hear the sound anyway.
Quote by offtheroad
What quality of mic would I need for micing my amp?
An sm57 + a basic stand would do just fine.
Quote by deano_l
my laptop is 6 years old and doesn't get any noticeable latency
FTFY
Quote by deano_l
Having said that I don't know Macs; do they have USB ports?
Is that a serious question?
Yeah they do.
Quote by deano_l
My own choice would be to buy a Pod or similar because it will enable you to record without latency via the built in audio interface, and to practice independently of the computer should you wish.
The latency is there anyway, the problem's with the processing that happens in the computer.
If you close all of your apps and you don't put a lot of processors in there, you'll be able to get the latency down to a reasonable (unnoticable) amount.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#30
Quote by deano_l
You appear to want to head down the mic'd up amp route without trying out the other options which may well be cheaper and more convenient.

Don't be forced by fear of latency down the mic'd amp route. Latency isn't something that you need be overly concerned with if you have a reasonably modern machine (my laptop is 6 years old and doesn't get any latency), a USB 2.0 or Firewire connection, and a decent audio interface (again USB 2 or Firewire will do fine).

You should be aware that virtually all modern multifx units such as the Pod, the Zoom G3/G5 and Fender Mustang Floor all have audio interfaces built in, so you don't need to buy one seperately to try out. Having said that I don't know Macs; do they have USB ports?

The only advantages a DAW and Mac or PC gives you over a multifx unit is the ability to be more flexible in your choice of model and effects, and recording facilities. The advantage of the multifx unit is that you don't need to plug into a PC or Mac to use them. They even run off batteries.

Either option is a great way to go, as indeed is mic'ing up a valve amp, but choosing to mic up a valve amp because you want to avoid latency is not the best way forward im my mind.

My own choice would be to buy a Pod or similar because it will enable you to record without latency via the built in audio interface, and to practice independently of the computer should you wish.

Yes I have 3 usb inputs and 2 firewire inputs. I have a Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz Quad-Core 12 GB RAM Plenty of HD space a empty 1TB external. I tried the POD farm but couldn't explain to Sweetwater how I have my Mac hooked up thru my Denon to monitor what I am doing. Here is a pic of the back of my Denon tuner. Disregard the red Arrow But right now I have a split rca jack going into IN/PB and and that going into the back of my Mac in the spk input with a min1/8 stereo from other end of the split rca. Here is where the proble lies. Where do I plug my guitar into and have the ability to monitor it? Oh btw I really appreciate yoyr feedback. O even talked to the POD Farm people when I had a red POD and just couldn't get it to work so I sent it back to Sweetwater. I even tried a casble I forgot the name but it was usb to guitar plug and tried with garage band and tried to bring the latency down as far as it would go and stil had bad latency but that was over a year ago and things may have changed. I have a full version of Logic Pro X. I like your idea about beindependent of my Mac to practice. I watch i video on the Fender floor it looks good can't find a video on the Zoom G3/G4. Not to change the subject but I have this really old "PandoraPX1 but and it's fun but trying to read the screen is hopless because it is the type of led that reharges by sun light.
Attachments:
Back of Denon amp.jpg
Last edited by offtheroad at Apr 23, 2014,
#31
Zoom make a number of different pedals the G3, the G3X and the G5 amongst others.

You need an audio interface to plug your guitar into that converts the guitar signal into a digital signal. Ideally to keep your latency down to a minimum you also want to connect your Denon into the audio interface.

I wouldn't plug the Denon into the Mac directly. The soundcard and drivers in the Mac won't be as good as that in the dedicated audio interface and drivers, which in turn that will lead to poor latency. Everything ought to go through the audio interface.

Spambot...

It was a serious question about the USB interfaces on Macs. I've never used a Mac, so why should I be expected to know if they have USB interfaces?

I have no idea what FTFY means.

My laptop is 6 years old Dell Inspiron, runs Vista and has no latency that I notice. I'm sure more sensitive souls would notice, but they sometimes think they notice things that aren't even there as well. Because sometimes they're dicks.
#33
^ for that money, score a used pod HD500x, it doesn a shitton more stuff

Quote by deano_l
Spambot...

It was a serious question about the USB interfaces on Macs. I've never used a Mac, so why should I be expected to know if they have USB interfaces?

I have no idea what FTFY means.

My laptop is 6 years old Dell Inspiron, runs Vista and has no latency that I notice. I'm sure more sensitive souls would notice, but they sometimes think they notice things that aren't even there as well. Because sometimes they're dicks.
I have yet to see a consumer grade computer made in the last 10 years that doesn't features usb ports, so I thought that was more or less common knowledge.

FTF means Fixed That For You.
You can't get no latency, you can get an amount of latency lower than 10ms which is unnoticable if you're an average human being.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#34
Who said anything about no usb ports. I'm on a Mac and it has 3 usb's and 2 firewire. I'll check out the HD500x The Fender Mustang floor is nice also.
#35
^ deano_l asked if macs had them
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#37
It's a very good piece of kit. I don't have one so I can't comment on it directly (I have the Zoom G3X which is great for me).

If you post a budget and musical styles I'm sure some poeple will be able to offer more detailed advice about a specific multifx that meets your needs.

The Vox Tonelab is brilliant for clean and lower gain styles (I have a Valvetronix amp which contains the same modelling as the Tonelab) but something out there may be better for higher gain styles.

And your budget is important as well as a used deal may be better value than new and again there are people on here who can advise better than I. All I know is that the Zoom modellers and the Vox Tonelab are both excellent choices for me.

I feed my G3X through the effects loop return of my Egnater Tweaker if I want to use the models built into the G3X.
#39
^ for that money, score a used pod HD500x, it doesn a shitton more stuff

I have yet to see a consumer grade computer made in the last 10 years that doesn't features usb ports, so I thought that was more or less common knowledge.

FTF means Fixed That For You.
You can't get no latency, you can get an amount of latency lower than 10ms which is unnoticable if you're an average human being.[/QU
The POD HD500X looks good but may be hard to create patches, but I could be wrong I've been wrong before.
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