#1
Hey all. Just wondering if anyone knows what is happening in this jam theoretically.
You have to skip to the 5:01 mark. From then on its just so amazing to me, I find this more amazing than any mozart or bach piece I've heard (granted I've only heard a few). But this is the sort of improvisational ability I strive for and if anyone can help me out that would be great. Scales, Keys, key changes, etc. Thank you in advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cSNL0Y3-qw
#5
Yeah I'm about as big a fan of RHCP as someone can be and I wouldn't compare that to a classical piano piece. Two totally different things. But do I enjoy listening to the Chili Peppers more than Mozart? Of course
#6
You really shouldn't compare classical music and popular music to each other. They are so different. I'm not saying classical is any better than pop but you just can't compare them.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#7
lol thanks guys. I'm not dissing classical music. I just think music is sometimes forgotten as being what it fundamentally is, which is sound pleasing to our senses. The pure joy and the mysterious cosmic absorption is why people follow music in the first place and this is one of those pieces and by pure sound from the guitar, bass, drums and synth is enough to sort of transcend myself to where music sends us when it becomes an attraction. Not to say classical music can't do that either.

So the whole thing is a i-VI-VII progression in E minor?
#8
This thread cracked me up.

I didn't listen to the video but I've heard enough of their jams.

Fleas a badass, frusciante is ok.
#9
Quote by tyle12
lol thanks guys. I'm not dissing classical music. I just think music is sometimes forgotten as being what it fundamentally is, which is sound pleasing to our senses. The pure joy and the mysterious cosmic absorption is why people follow music in the first place and this is one of those pieces and by pure sound from the guitar, bass, drums and synth is enough to sort of transcend myself to where music sends us when it becomes an attraction. Not to say classical music can't do that either.

The thing is, classical music appeals to many, many people. It wouldn't be called "classical" if it had no appeal to people.

So the whole thing is a i-VI-VII progression in E minor?

Yes. And Frusciante is just playing basic blues-based stuff over that progression.
#10
I think if you want to copy this, the thing to really dig into is how he uses recurring motifs.

The Peppers, live, have usually been about energy and showmanship. I understand why a lot of people love Frusciante's guitar playing, but there's nothing particularly complex about this.

Study the melody. Identify an idea, and notice how he comes back to it. To be fair, the whole idea of a theme-and-variations does go back to classical music.

Like others, I'm not a huge fan of this. It gets pretty wanky to me. But if this is what you like, then really work on your idea to connect melodic ideas, and explore how he develops them, rather than worrying about the scale and the chord progression.

The worst thing you could do if you wanted to emulate what is good about this is go "Oh, okay, loop a chord progression and wail away in E."
#11
Hotspur jr. I'm really interested in what you are saying. Could you possibly elaborate? I'm not sure I fully understand. My ear isn't good enough yet to pick out what he's doing as a recurring idea after the 5:01 mark. Is he just going to different E notes on the neck and using similar patterns in the different positions available? Is he coming back to his original idea after wanking around a bit and continuously going back and forth from that idea? Thanks.
#13
If you want to improvise like that, you need to listen to the other instruments and react to what they play. You should use your ears - you can't really improvise well unless you can play what you want to play and playing what you want to play is all about knowing the sound. You need to know what you are doing and not just playing random notes (and playing notes inside of a scale is random, unless you know what you are doing). A good jam is about "musical connections" - how well everybody listens to each other and how well they react to each other.

I didn't find the video that amazing.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#14
Quote by tyle12
Hey all. Just wondering if anyone knows what is happening in this jam theoretically.
You have to skip to the 5:01 mark. From then on its just so amazing to me, I find this more amazing than any mozart or bach piece I've heard (granted I've only heard a few).


it's a nice jam, but there is no reason to insult Mozart or Bach.


Quote by tyle12

But this is the sort of improvisational ability I strive for and if anyone can help me out that would be great. Scales, Keys, key changes, etc. Thank you in advance.



I guarantee you Fruciante didn't get there by piecing together random advice he got on the internet.

That said….

scale = E minor pentatonic (mostly)
key = E minor
key changes = none

but knowledge alone isn't going to make you be able to play like that.

Learn songs, learn solos…… play… play …. play…. stop worrying about getting good. let it happen naturally as a result of you playing so much because your sooooo into playing the guitar.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 25, 2014,
#15
Quote by MaggaraMarine
You need to know what you are doing and not just playing random notes (and playing notes inside of a scale is random, unless you know what you are doing).


Can you explain what you mean by this? If not all the notes in a scale are free game what are we supposed to play?
#16
Quote by 757ian123
Can you explain what you mean by this? If not all the notes in a scale are free game what are we supposed to play?

He means, if you just pick random notes in the scale, you MAY come up with something good. But the chances of doing that are low. If, on the other hand, you learn how going from the root to the 5th, 5th to the 7th, etc. ...then you know the scale. Music = sound. To understand music, you need to HEAR THE SOUNDS and understand them.
#17
^ Yes. Playing notes inside of a scale isn't necessarily knowing what you are doing. You can play notes outside of the scale and sound great. But you really can't do that well if you don't know the sound. You need to know the sound of the notes inside of the scale to be able to use them well. Just noodling around in E minor pentatonic is random. Frusciante knows what he is doing. He doesn't play random notes. He knows the sound like all good guitarists do. Scales do help but just knowing the fingerings in a scale doesn't mean you actually know the scale. You just know its fingerings but before you know the sound, you don't really know the scale well because you can't use it creatively.

Improvising isn't picking random notes in a scale. It's playing melodies. And the best melodies are in your head, not in your fingers. To become really good at improvising, you need to be able connect your head and your fingers.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#18
Sounds hard. If we can't even use all the notes in a scale(which is already limited), how is our music supposed to.sound any different from what's already out there?
#19
You don't understand and I don't think you ever will, as it's been spelled out very clearly and simply. Give up now music now.
#20
Quote by 757ian123
Sounds hard. If we can't even use all the notes in a scale(which is already limited), how is our music supposed to.sound any different from what's already out there?


Sure it's hard. If it wasn't everyone would be doing it. The pointtabout the scales is that youecant just randomly select notes from a scale, well, not if you want to sound nice. You need to play phrases, melody, licks, and play with expression, vibrato, bends, etc. That, combined with the scale notes gives you a pretty big vocabulary of sounds to use. Even the same note sounds different depending on what the bass is playing. So re-read the posts about themes and melodies a few times, and if you're still lost, start playing 'itsy bitsy spider' or 'twinkle twinkle little star' and then mutate and develop the melody hnd return to the original and then take it a bit further away from the original and return again. Don't just vary notes, you can vary timing, rhythm, dynamics and so on too. This is a good exercise!
#21
@757ian123

OK, let me explain what I meant. Scales are like a map. They help you to find the sounds you are looking for. Most of the melodies you hear in your head are in a major or minor scale. But the thing is, they are melodies, they aren't scales. Also, they aren't random notes. They sound melodic. Random notes played after each other can sound melodic but they also can sound bad. You need to know what you are doing.

I mean, how can you write a song if you don't know what you are after? If you don't know the sound, it's only guessing. But if you know the sound, you can write anything you want.

When you start humming a melody, you don't need to think about scales or anything. You just sing. And good guitarists do this with their guitar. They play notes that they hear in their head. They just play and know what they are after and how to achieve it.

If you want to get a good ear, you need to play songs by ear and not rely 100% on tabs.

Music shouldn't be random. If you just put notes together and hope for the best result, how can you know if it's going to sound good or not? If you have a melody in your head, you should be able to get it out of your head (by singing it or playing it). If you can't do this, you need a better ear.

Yes, you can use all notes in a scale and also notes outside of a scale. But you need to know what you are doing. Not just play random notes. If you know the sound, you can use any note you want.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Apr 26, 2014,
#22
I can play a melody in my head without knowing a damn thing about scales. Just find the notes that you are thinking of. What I want to know is how to improvise on-the-fly. I thought this was the point of learning scales. You're pretty much saying that Clapton and SRV and these guys that solo for 5 minutes straight have every lick and phrase planned out in their head? Sorry that this thread is getting so off topic lol
#23
Quote by 757ian123
Sounds hard. If we can't even use all the notes in a scale(which is already limited), how is our music supposed to.sound any different from what's already out there?

You do realize that music is not just about which notes you use, right? There's timbre/instrumentation, there's rhythm and stuff.

And sounding different is not about single passages. Think of a song or album as a bigger whole. That's how you sound different. You may have "generic" passages in your song but the whole track might still feel unique enough.

Learn as many music styles as you possible can and combine them (and also maybe try to throw in some of your own experimental stuff ) . Of course if you only play Metallica, you ARE going to sound like Metallica.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Apr 27, 2014,
#24
Of course they have every lick in their head before they play it. How would it work otherwise? What do you think improvisation on the fly is? Just hitting random notes? Those guys had played the guitar for so long that they could pretty much play whatever they heard in their head. But it always starts in the head.

The point of practicing scales from a guitar point of view is to get them under your fingers. If you practice them incorrectly, than you'll just play the scale up and down and sound like shit. If you practice them properly, then you'll be memorizing how going from one interval to another sounds (sing those intervals as you play them!), and muscle memorizing how it feels to play those intervals, so when you hear them, you can play them without thinking about it. That's where improvisation really starts.
#25
Quote by 757ian123
Sounds hard. If we can't even use all the notes in a scale(which is already limited), how is our music supposed to.sound any different from what's already out there?


Music isn't about the notes. It's about how the phrases you play relate to one another. Music isn't about what you play, It's about what you play next.

Quote by 757ian123
I can play a melody in my head without knowing a damn thing about scales. Just find the notes that you are thinking of. What I want to know is how to improvise on-the-fly. I thought this was the point of learning scales. You're pretty much saying that Clapton and SRV and these guys that solo for 5 minutes straight have every lick and phrase planned out in their head? Sorry that this thread is getting so off topic lol


They didn't have the entire solo planned out beforehand. When the solo started they played a phrase that they heard in their heads that lasted for x amount of bars then they decided if they wanted to play something similar or different ect. (Subconsciously of course) They were also aware of the form of the music they were playing over. Twelve bars, eight bars, sixteen, thirty two...They used that knowledge to make coherent musical statements. Pay attention to when then they start and stop their phrases. How many beats was the phrase? How many bars? Where in the form is it? From bar 1 to bar 5? How do the phrases relate to one another? Are they similar or different? When do they change?
Last edited by Duaneclapdrix at Apr 27, 2014,
#26
Quote by 757ian123
I can play a melody in my head without knowing a damn thing about scales. Just find the notes that you are thinking of. What I want to know is how to improvise on-the-fly. I thought this was the point of learning scales. You're pretty much saying that Clapton and SRV and these guys that solo for 5 minutes straight have every lick and phrase planned out in their head? Sorry that this thread is getting so off topic lol

Again, they are just singing with their guitar. When you sing, you don't need to have anything in your head when you start singing, other than the first note. Then you just let the melody flow - more notes start coming to your head. You don't even need to think. You just sing what's in your mind. They do the same - but just on guitar. They don't have the whole solo planned in their mind before they play it. They have one phrase just before they play it. Then they just continue playing and get ideas when they play their ideas. They listen to what other guys in the band do and get ideas from them. It's communicating. Just like when you speak, you don't put random words after each other. Speaking is kind of improvising. You haven't really planned anything you say - or you haven't practiced it before you say it. You just say it and the words come automatically out off your mouth. But you still know what you are doing.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115