#1
Hi guys, quick question as I can't seem to find any.

I am looking for a long (at least 10 meters) balanced speaker cable with a 1/4 jack on each end. I am planning on using this for a recording project, and having my cab in the live room with my head in the control room. If anyone can direct me to an online dealer I would appreciate it.
#2
Quote by Random3
I am planning on using this for a recording project, and having my cab in the live room with my head in the control room. If anyone can direct me to an online dealer I would appreciate it.
Then you don't need a balanced cable, you need a power cable.

Where do you live?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
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Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#3
Quote by Spambot_2
Then you don't need a balanced cable, you need a power cable.

Where do you live?


No, he needs a speaker cable to connect his amp head to a cab. You don't need a balanced cable though an unbalanced one is what you need (one ring on the jack) as the amps signal is mono.

Something like this:http://www.thomann.de/ie/pro_snake_gitarrenlautsprecherkabel_10.htm
Last edited by gurg06 at Apr 24, 2014,
#4
I am based in Cardiff UK but I was planning on buying online anyway. I need the cable in about a week so delivery times shouldn't matter.

I am not particularly knowledgable about balanced vs unbalanced cables but I was led to believe that for taking my head to my cab through a long distance I would want a balanced cable to reduce signal loss.
#5
you could try award session or kabl

you could email them to make sure you end up with the right thing
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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#6
Negative on the "balanced" part. Use balanced cables for very small signals like a mic or line level to eliminate RF noise. For "big" signals from amp to speaker you want large gauge speaker wire. Even 14GA lamp cord works fine with little or no signal loss up to 40 meters.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/musicians-gear-12-gauge-1-4--1-4-speaker-cable/500522000302094
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Apr 24, 2014,
#7
Quote by Random3
I am based in Cardiff UK but I was planning on buying online anyway. I need the cable in about a week so delivery times shouldn't matter.

I am not particularly knowledgable about balanced vs unbalanced cables but I was led to believe that for taking my head to my cab through a long distance I would want a balanced cable to reduce signal loss.


a Cajundaddy mentioned this advice is meant for weaker signals.

even if you used a balanced cable to bus the signal the jack on the cab and amp is still TS, so it's not going to mean anything.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#8
Ok just to make sure I understand correctly:

A balanced cable is not needed for running the amp to the cab in different rooms.

However if hypothetically I were to run the amp and cab in the live room and send the signal from there to my guitar in the control room, that would be a situation requiring balanced cables?
#9
Quote by Random3
I am based in Cardiff UK but I was planning on buying online anyway. I need the cable in about a week so delivery times shouldn't matter.

I am not particularly knowledgable about balanced vs unbalanced cables but I was led to believe that for taking my head to my cab through a long distance I would want a balanced cable to reduce signal loss.



No, you don't need balanced anything. You may want a higher gauge, but that'd be about it. The things that make a difference are the distance and the impedance. If you have an 8 ohm cabinet, any distance less than 50' can be handled with a 16 gauge zip wire. You'll want to move to 14 gauge if the distance exceeds 50' or if you have a 4 ohm cabinet.
#11
Quote by gurg06
No, he needs a speaker cable to connect his amp head to a cab. You don't need a balanced cable though an unbalanced one is what you need (one ring on the jack) as the amps signal is mono.
That's what a power cable's for, carrying a signal from a power amp to a set of speakers.

TS, go on wikipedia and learn how balanced lines work.
It's not something magical nor really complicated, I'm sure you can pull it off.
The short explaination is that they work veeery good but only if you're sending a signal from a balanced output to a balanced input.

Signals of the impedance that come out of power amps are not really subject to interferance so you'll be fine.
Mind that if you wanna send a power signal through a cable you have to make sure you have the right cable - unshielded and with big gauges.
If you use a shielded cable as a power cable with more than a handfull of watts you'll fry the thing, so be careful.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
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#12
If it's using phono plugs, it isn't balanced - what is this BS?

I make my long PA speaker cable out of mains extension cables. Just solder your phono plugs on the end and off you go. I have some that are over 20 years old and still going strong. The beauty of using extension cables is that they are really tough. People can walk on them without them turning up their toes and croaking. There are safety regs governing mains power that pretty much assures you that they will be up to the task.
It's the cheapest way to buy quality twisted pair copper (you just cut off the third wire)
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#13
Hey guys, sorry for the bump but I thought it was preferable to making an entirely new thread.

I have read through all the responses here and done some research for myself and I am still not 100% certain what I need...

As this article seems to explain, if I use a regular instrument cable to connect my head to my cab then I risk overheating the head. Thing is, I have been using a regular instrument cable since day 1 with my half-stack, although it is only about a foot long, and I have had no problems.

http://www.fender.com/news/why-instrument-cables-and-speaker-cables-arent-interchangeable/

Just so people know, the head is a Peavey 6505 and is 120W, and the cab is a Marshall 1960AV. I am using the 16 ohm input/output.

So here are the questions I need answering I guess:

1. Am I incredibly lucky that my amp hasn't blown already?
2. Does running the head and amp through a 25 foot or so cable increase the risk?
3. Is it safe for me to use a regular instrument cable for this purpose?
4. If not, what specifically should I use?

Sorry if people end up repeating themselves but I am still unsure of what I need to do, and I cannot risk blowing my amp.
#14
1. Am I incredibly lucky that my amp hasn't blown already?
2. Does running the head and amp through a 25 foot or so cable increase the risk?
3. Is it safe for me to use a regular instrument cable for this purpose?
4. If not, what specifically should I use?/QUOTE]1. did you turn up the volume a lot?
I don't think so, 'cause I think you would have ****ed the cable if you did.
You see the problem is the power here, and if you don't send enough power to the cab through the cable there's no reason why the cable shouldn't be alright.

2. just thinking about how the thing works, nope, though don't quote me on that.

3. will you turn up the volume more than you did already?
See answer one.

4. If you have to turn your volume up, use whatever power cable.
http://www.thomann.de/ie/cat.html?gf=speaker_cables&oa=pra
The cheapest cable here will suffice, though if you know how to do that you'll likely save lotsa money if you find yourself whatever 2-conductors power cable and solder it to 1/4" jack leads.

I can turn my 5w amp all the way up with a shielded (instrument) cable anyway and I'm confident the thing will not fry in a thousand years, so if you don't have to turn the volume up that much stick to what you have.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#15
Regarding volume, I usually have it no louder than volume 1 as most of it's use is bedroom practice and recording, however I have gigged with it although never had the volume above 3 or 4 absolute highest.

For the recording I will be doing for which I am asking about cables, I would need the freedom to crank the amp as loud as I can to get the tone I want, which I would guess would be around 6 or 7.

EDIT: This one here would probably do the job, 10 meters long: http://www.thomann.de/ie/cordial_ctl_10_pp_lskabel.htm
Last edited by Random3 at Apr 28, 2014,
#16
Quote by Cathbard
If it's using phono plugs, it isn't balanced - what is this BS?


Eckchoowally, a TRS cable (using a 1/4" phono plug with a TRS, Tip Ring Sleeve connector) is balanced. You've also seen it as a stereo cable.
#17
Quote by Spambot_2


I can turn my 5w amp all the way up with a shielded (instrument) cable anyway and I'm confident the thing will not fry in a thousand years, so if you don't have to turn the volume up that much stick to what you have.



ACK ACK ACK. Do NOT use a shielded instrument cable as a head-to-speaker cabinet cable. EVER. You can definitely fry the thing ("Duh...I was so confident it wouldn't fry in a thousand years..."). The wire inside those things is SO thin compared to speaker wire that you can actually melt the insulation. Short out that cable and you have a cooked amp and you get to tell people you learned that lesson the hard way.
#18
think about using some 8 core speakon cable with a breakout box on either end, especially if its for a more permanent install. you could use that to run 4 different amps/cabs simultaneously!
A metal band?
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Orange Tiny Terror >
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My other amp can run Crysis
#19
People! Please don't use a tiny 24GA shielded instrument cord from amp to speaker so you don't catch your amp on fire and burn your house down. It also makes your amp sound weak and lame.

Basic rules for music cable connections:

Hi Z Instrument> amp= 24GA shielded, always less than 20'

Lo Z Mic> mixer= balanced 3 conductor 20GA shielded either 1/4" TRS or 3 pin up to 100'

Keyboard > mixer, or mixer > power amp= Lo Z Balanced shielded 20GA either 1/4 TRS or 3pin connectors, up to 100ft

Amp > speakers= non-twisted, non shielded speaker wire, either 2 conductor lamp cord or 2 conductor insulated wire. 16GA up to 20', 14GA up to 100w and 100', 12 GA up to 400w and 100'. Ends could be 1/4", banana plugs, or speak-on connectors.

http://www.procosound.com/download/whitepapers/Understanding%20Speaker%20Cables.pdf
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Apr 28, 2014,
#20
Quote by FischmungaXTR
think about using some 8 core speakon cable with a breakout box on either end, especially if its for a more permanent install. you could use that to run 4 different amps/cabs simultaneously!

I will modify my amp and cab and fit it with speakon connectors.
Quote by dspellman
Eckchoowally, a TRS cable (using a 1/4" phono plug with a TRS, Tip Ring Sleeve connector) is balanced. You've also seen it as a stereo cable.
A cable isn't balanced, a line is balanced, and to transmit a balanced line you need a cable with at least 2 conductors, though 3 is often used because it's nice to have a ground.
A stereo cable is a cable with 2 conductors, or again, 3 since we also use ground.
Though you can transmit both an unbalanced stereo signal and a balanced mono signal, the fact that you're using the same cable to do that in particular isn't anything more than a coincidence.
Quote by dspellman
ACK ACK ACK. Do NOT use a shielded instrument cable as a head-to-speaker cabinet cable. EVER. You can definitely fry the thing ("Duh...I was so confident it wouldn't fry in a thousand years..."). The wire inside those things is SO thin compared to speaker wire that you can actually melt the insulation. Short out that cable and you have a cooked amp and you get to tell people you learned that lesson the hard way.
Did you read how much power my amp puts up?
5 watts.
Even if they were 5w RMS, you wouldn't fry the thing even with a signal way more compressed than a guitar's.
Plus, luckily most tube amps have fuses that burn in order to prevent such things.
Hell it's 5w and the output transformer is colder than ambient temperature even after playing for 5 minutes with the volume maxed up, I'm fairly confident I would notice the amp's silence and turn the amp off without the thing even heating up...
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#22
Quote by Spambot_2

I will modify my amp and cab and fit it with speakon connectors.
A cable isn't balanced, a line is balanced, and to transmit a balanced line you need a cable with at least 2 conductors, though 3 is often used because it's nice to have a ground.
A stereo cable is a cable with 2 conductors, or again, 3 since we also use ground.
Though you can transmit both an unbalanced stereo signal and a balanced mono signal, the fact that you're using the same cable to do that in particular isn't anything more than a coincidence.
Did you read how much power my amp puts up?
5 watts.
Even if they were 5w RMS, you wouldn't fry the thing even with a signal way more compressed than a guitar's.
Plus, luckily most tube amps have fuses that burn in order to prevent such things.
Hell it's 5w and the output transformer is colder than ambient temperature even after playing for 5 minutes with the volume maxed up, I'm fairly confident I would notice the amp's silence and turn the amp off without the thing even heating up...

Don't use an instrument cable for a speaker cable. Yes it may work for a while, but even a 5 watt amp can and will fry the cable eventually.

And don't adamantly post the wrong info and swear by it, your normally pretty helpful on subjects you know, but your dead wrong on this. There is a reason they make different cables
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#23
Quote by dspellman
Eckchoowally, a TRS cable (using a 1/4" phono plug with a TRS, Tip Ring Sleeve connector) is balanced. You've also seen it as a stereo cable.
It's a mono phono plug; it's unbalanced.
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#24
Quote by Random3
Will this do the trick because if so I can pick one up tomorrow and problem solved.

http://www.cranesmusicstore.com/pighogphsc5050ftheavydutyspeakercable-p-2952.html



Yes, not cheap but it is exactly what you need.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#25
Quote by Random3
Will this do the trick because if so I can pick one up tomorrow and problem solved.

http://www.cranesmusicstore.com/pighogphsc5050ftheavydutyspeakercable-p-2952.html

Yes that will be fine
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#27
Quote by Robbgnarly
Don't use an instrument cable for a speaker cable. Yes it may work for a while, but even a 5 watt amp can and will fry the cable eventually.

And don't adamantly post the wrong info and swear by it, your normally pretty helpful on subjects you know, but your dead wrong on this. There is a reason they make different cables
Has this ever actually happened to you?
Frying a good quality shielded cable using it to connect a 5w amp to something?

The problem is not the fact that there's power, the problem comes in when there's a quantity of power high enough to damage the thing, and nor I think there is one here, nor I have had any proof there is.
I also wouldn't see why I would risk frying the thing by using it since it's been working for 4 months and it was never hotter than ambient temperature when touching it, after playing for 5 minutes with the volume on 5 and after playing for 20 minutes with the volume on 10.

The reason why they make different cables is that most amps here put up more power than 5w, and they are likely to damage a shielded cable.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#28
Quote by Spambot_2
Has this ever actually happened to you?
Frying a good quality shielded cable using it to connect a 5w amp to something?


No, it's never actually happened to me.
I value my gear enough to have followed good practices to keep it good gear.

But I think if you talk to a good amp repairman, he's seen more than one an amp damaged because someone fried "a good quality shielded cable," shorted it out.

I'd definitely not advise someone to "go ahead, try it" in an advice forum.
#29
Quote by Cathbard
It's a mono phono plug; it's unbalanced.


I think we're speaking at crossed porpoises, here <G>.
Yes, you're correct. A *mono* phono plug is certainly unbalanced.
Even a TRS phono plug is unbalanced if you're only using tip and sleeve.
#30
Quote by Spambot_2
Has this ever actually happened to you?
Frying a good quality shielded cable using it to connect a 5w amp to something?

The problem is not the fact that there's power, the problem comes in when there's a quantity of power high enough to damage the thing, and nor I think there is one here, nor I have had any proof there is.
I also wouldn't see why I would risk frying the thing by using it since it's been working for 4 months and it was never hotter than ambient temperature when touching it, after playing for 5 minutes with the volume on 5 and after playing for 20 minutes with the volume on 10.

The reason why they make different cables is that most amps here put up more power than 5w, and they are likely to damage a shielded cable.


Maybe you are safe with only 5 watts. If you really feel strongly about using a guitar cord where a speaker cable should be, just do the math. Figure out if it is 22GA or 24GA conductor wire and the max distance this wire can carry the amount of current you are using. If it's only 2 feet, you might squeak by without causing the dampening factor of your amp to drop to zero causing mushy guitar tone and flabby bass.

Or just spend $8 and buy the right speaker wire to begin with so you never have to sacrifice your guitar tone or put your amp at risk.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#31
We gotta decide what we mean by mono phono plug.
Both a TS cable and a TRS cable can be used to transmit a mono signal, and the first could transmit a balanced line if you renounced reserving a conductor for the ground.
Then, a TS cable could be used to transmit an unbalanced stereo signal without connecting the grounds of the two devices, and a TRS cable could be used to transmit a stereo signal plus the ground, but it couldn't be used to transmit a balanced stereo signal even using all of the conductors.

That's all theory though, the common way of doing stuff is using cables with TS 1/4" jack ends to transmit a mono signals + grounds, cables with TRS 1/4" jack ends to transmit stereo signal + grounds, and cables with XLR ends to transmit either stereo signals + grounds or balanced mono signals with or without grounds.
Quote by dspellman
But I think if you talk to a good amp repairman, he's seen more than one an amp damaged because someone fried "a good quality shielded cable," shorted it out.
None of the people I spoken to had any concerns about that, and on top of my list there's an electrical engineer who's passionate with PA stuff.
Though it happens to fry them, still I haven't had any problems nor signs that it might happen.
My take on this it's still that it may happen, but not with 5w.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#32
Quote by Spambot_2


That's all theory though, the common way of doing stuff is using cables with TS 1/4" jack ends to transmit a mono signals + grounds, cables with TRS 1/4" jack ends to transmit stereo signal + grounds, and cables with XLR ends to transmit either stereo signals + grounds or balanced mono signals with or without grounds.


The connector is immaterial. A TRS Cable is unique in that it can carry either a balanced audio signal or an unbalanced stereo signal.

Whether a TRS cable is balanced or not depends on what it is connecting. If the cable is between a balanced TRS output and a balanced TRS input, then the cable will carry a balanced signal, as well.

The reason for this is that a TRS cable can carry two audio signals, which gives it the ability to transfer both balanced and stereo audio. When it serves as a balanced audio signal, it is carrying two version of one signal (the normal signal and its inverted form). The input device then combines these two signals, creating one “noiseless” signal, meaning unwanted interference and noise is eliminated from the original audio signal.
#33
Quote by Spambot_2
Has this ever actually happened to you?
Frying a good quality shielded cable using it to connect a 5w amp to something?

The problem is not the fact that there's power, the problem comes in when there's a quantity of power high enough to damage the thing, and nor I think there is one here, nor I have had any proof there is.
I also wouldn't see why I would risk frying the thing by using it since it's been working for 4 months and it was never hotter than ambient temperature when touching it, after playing for 5 minutes with the volume on 5 and after playing for 20 minutes with the volume on 10.

The reason why they make different cables is that most amps here put up more power than 5w, and they are likely to damage a shielded cable.

No never happened to me because I don't use instrument cables for speaker cables. I have seen it happen more than once though, so I'd say your 100% wrong

Do what you want with your gear, don't play games with other peoples gear. That is just stupid and inconsiderate.

the reason they make different cables is not every cable will work for every situation. That is the real reason.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#34
i think all of you guys are stupid.

now lets hug

punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#35
With a 5W amp you could be looking at around 1 amp depending on the load. That's enough to blow the inner conductor of a flimsy cable, especially if, as normal, Murphy has dropped in for a visit and broken some of the wires.
Don't tempt Murphy, he'll **** you up. It's really not worth the risk, especially as you can make one out of a piece of mains cable ripped out of a broken appliance or extension cable and a couple of plugs.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#36
Quote by Cathbard
With a 5W amp you could be looking at around 1 amp depending on the load. That's enough to blow the inner conductor of a flimsy cable, especially if, as normal, Murphy has dropped in for a visit and broken some of the wires.
Don't tempt Murphy, he'll **** you up. It's really not worth the risk, especially as you can make one out of a piece of mains cable ripped out of a broken appliance or extension cable and a couple of plugs.
Didn't think about that, I'll look for ripped mains cable.
Quote by Cajundaddy
Or just spend $8 and buy the right speaker wire to begin with so you never have to sacrifice your guitar tone or put your amp at risk.
Didn't know about the tone thing, I'll try and see if it changes anything.
Quote by gumbilicious
i think all of you guys are stupid.

now lets hug

Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.