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#1
I've been playing for over 5 years and I haven't learned to shred yet. It's pissing me off, I MUST SHRED ! But I think I've finally realized the problem. I've never actually learned any shred solos to practice. I spent all this time learning scales and exercises and shit.

So my question to you is:

What songs have good "beginner shred" solos that are not too fast but still shredalicious and full of tasty licks?

Particularly in the thrash and classic metal genre please. Megadeth? Dio? Metallica? Iron Maiden?
#2
symphony of destruction solo isn't that hard, and it's nice alternate/economy picking exercise. Also, The four horsemen's second solo isn't hard, but cool, Marty's solos in Holy wars. Try Jeff's solo (band Nevermore) from song "The river dragon has come", it's realy interesting diminished thing (for economy and sweeping), also, from nevermore, song
"I voyager" has nice not-so-fast sweep picking involved. These solos helped me a lot in technique developing, and put me on a wright track after a months of scales and shapes practicing.
P.S: don't use word "shred", it pisses a lot of people off around here
#5
Can you play any solos at all?
Actually called Mark!

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#6
Quote by kimi_page
symphony of destruction solo isn't that hard, and it's nice alternate/economy picking exercise. Also, The four horsemen's second solo isn't hard, but cool, Marty's solos in Holy wars. Try Jeff's solo (band Nevermore) from song "The river dragon has come", it's realy interesting diminished thing (for economy and sweeping), also, from nevermore, song
"I voyager" has nice not-so-fast sweep picking involved. These solos helped me a lot in technique developing, and put me on a wright track after a months of scales and shapes practicing.
P.S: don't use word "shred", it pisses a lot of people off around here


What? Seriously, Dave's solo in Holy War is easier than Marty's if your fingers are long enough.
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#7
Quote by Archer250
What? Seriously, Dave's solo in Holy War is easier than Marty's if your fingers are long enough.


Depends on your skill set; I'm terrible at that kind of playing but I'm pretty sure I could get Marty's solo in a couple of days if I had the time.
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#8
Quote by kimi_page
symphony of destruction solo isn't that hard,


yeah it is. pretty much anything by marty friedman is pretty darn hard.
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#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah it is. pretty much anything by marty friedman is pretty darn hard.

I hate this kinds of comments.
#10
I hate people claiming things which are really difficult are actually really easy. 9 times out of 10 people claiming that don't have the wit to realise how hard it actually is, and even if you're one of the few who can genuinely play it "right", comments like that are pretty demoralising (not to mention downright untrue; even if you can play it, it's still arguably objectively difficult if most people will struggle to play it) to someone who's trying to learn.

If I were trying to learn lead/shred guitar, especially with little or no experience, I sure as heck wouldn't be starting with marty's megadeth solos.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Apr 25, 2014,
#11
Geez, this thread kinda went to shit with everyone bickering over nothing. I can already play plenty of stuff that doesn't require a whole lot of speed. I guess you could say I'm at the level where I can play the Stairway to Heaven solo with pretty good technique, but I still can't play more shreddy stuff. I just want to know some songs that have deliciously good 8th note or 16th note triplet runs or licks that aren't faster than, say, 100 bpm. You know, stuff that is considered shred, but is still RELATIVELY slow. I know I could just practice a bunch of crazy shred solos that I'd never actually be able to pull off for a year, but I want the satisfaction of being able to actually play some shred solos sometime soon.

Also, don't give a **** if the word "shred" pisses anyone off. I've been a member of this forum for seven years so eat my ass.
#12
Shredding is all about precision. Prepare to spend a lot of time with the metronome, scales, and arpeggios. And get real particular about your picking technique.

And there's a lot of fast playing out there that isn't shred. Just turn on the radio and listen for uptempo stuff that makes you want to pick up the guitar. As long as you're focused on precision and consistency, it'll all get you to the same place.
Last edited by cdgraves at Apr 25, 2014,
#13
Quote by Sample246
Geez, this thread kinda went to shit with everyone bickering over nothing. I can already play plenty of stuff that doesn't require a whole lot of speed. I guess you could say I'm at the level where I can play the Stairway to Heaven solo with pretty good technique, but I still can't play more shreddy stuff. I just want to know some songs that have deliciously good 8th note or 16th note triplet runs or licks that aren't faster than, say, 100 bpm. You know, stuff that is considered shred, but is still RELATIVELY slow. I know I could just practice a bunch of crazy shred solos that I'd never actually be able to pull off for a year, but I want the satisfaction of being able to actually play some shred solos sometime soon.


The problem people have with the word 'shred' is that it engenders a mentality where 'shredding' is anything other than just playing really well. Yes shred is used with reference to playing fast but that's the result, it's the complete mastery of the basics that makes it and nothing else.

You don't just achieve it, if you can't 'shred' now then you're not going to be able to do it suddenly just because someone gives you a solo that you think is all right to work with.

Quote by Sample246
Also, don't give a **** if the word "shred" pisses anyone off. I've been a member of this forum for seven years so eat my ass.


Awww, big boy, feel like a man now?

If you want to be able to shred, play the same things you do now, only faster. That's it. That's all you need to be able to do.

This probably about fits what you're looking for in terms of playing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqg2krFMWhc

But it doesn't really sound like what I think you're looking for.
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#14
Oh my god Sails of Charon, such an incredible song. I wish their were guitarists like Uli these days
#15
Quote by Sample246
I guess you could say I'm at the level where I can play the Stairway to Heaven solo with pretty good technique


Can you play the solo to Stairway to Heaven cleanly or are you saying that you should be able to?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#16
Quote by AlanHB
Can you play the solo to Stairway to Heaven cleanly or are you saying that you should be able to?


I should be able to play it. I learned it a long time ago but never really mastered it. If I practiced it for 4-5 days or so, I'm confident that I could pull it off nearly perfect now. My specialty is improvising solos over backing tracks though. I play smooth soulful shit, and my vibrato is finally coming to maturity as well. I'm pretty decent at playing what I hear in my head based on a personal understanding of scale patterns across the neck, but I will occasionally hear a sweet shred run in my head but be unable to play it.

I understand all the crap about "shred" and how little kids think it's this and that. I understand what I'll need to do in order to shred properly, and I have done plenty of metronome scale and modal practice in the past. My problem is that I don't know any good licks or runs (because I spent 5 years doing boring exercises and shit, instead of actually playing music, other than improvisation), and I just wanted someone to list out some "slower" shred solos that I can aspire to play within a month or two. I don't need any other advice.
#17
I agree that Marty's stuff is not a good place to start. You have to be dedicated to really learning his solos because he plays with so much feel, not just speed.

I just started getting into Vinnie Moore. He's ridiculously fast and incredibly clean but some of his songs aren't too far out of reach. I've been working on his song "Morning Star", it's at 120 bpm I think, so it's a little out of your preferred speed range but that doesn't mean to not go for it. And building speed really just boils down to spending hours doing metronome work and working on economy of motion, there's really no getting around it. Unless you're just one of those lucky players.
#18
I would learn something slow but melodic well first, like Comfortably numb or something if you don't know it yet. As for people saying some solos are easy, I had a guy say yeah I can play the solo from Comf numb...and he did know some of the notes- but so bad, timing, feel, emotion...it was hard not to laugh. yeah he knows it sort of, but can't play it really, maybe 5% of the feel and 70 % of the notes
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah it is. pretty much anything by marty friedman is pretty darn hard.


+1

People who say otherwise are either super virtuosos who've forgotten how to play badly or people who play without the nuances or the cleanness of the original solo.

Anyway, just try some solos like this first. They're not really shred, but they'll guide you along the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Yn72QM-lg&t=3m39s
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Last edited by Archer250 at Apr 26, 2014,
#20
Quote by Archer250
+1

People who say otherwise are either super virtuosos who've forgotten how to play badly or people who play without the nuances or the cleanness of the original solo.


People who categorize everything played by certain person as hard... That solo is at around 140 bpm with 16th notes, and that's not so fast, but it surely takes time to be learnt, but it's not soooo fast and complex like other Marty's solos. That's my opinion, and that's why I mentioned that solo.
#21
Quote by kimi_page
People who categorize everything played by certain person as hard... That solo is at around 140 bpm with 16th notes, and that's not so fast, but it surely takes time to be learnt, but it's not soooo fast and complex like other Marty's solos. That's my opinion, and that's why I mentioned that solo.


If you measure a song's difficulty ostensibly in terms of speed, you're gonna have a bad time. By that logic, Rock Bottom is easier than Fear of The Dark.

Yeah, that solo in particular is easier than say... Desert Island or Poison Was The Cure or pretty much the entirety of Cacophony's discography + his solo albums. However, that doesn't make it easy. Case in point:a Vengence is among YJM's easier solos. Anyone want to give it a try at nailing it down?
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Last edited by Archer250 at Apr 26, 2014,
#22
Quote by Archer250
If you measure a song's difficulty ostensibly in terms of speed, you're gonna have a bad time. By that logic, Rock Bottom is easier than Fear of The Dark.

I agree with that, and it's true. For ex. main riff from song Fight fire with fire is more difficult for me than Angel of death main riff even though the second one is faster, but F.F.W.F has that two 16th's in between power chords which is pain in the ass. Anyway, my point with speed is in psychological terms: If I see a solo with alternate pickung runs at 180+ bpm, I wouldn't bother learning it yet, but if I see a 150 bpm solo, I'll give it a shout, because I know that it's a more possible for me, and will take less time, probably.
#23
Quote by Sample246
Geez, this thread kinda went to shit with everyone bickering over nothing. I can already play plenty of stuff that doesn't require a whole lot of speed. I guess you could say I'm at the level where I can play the Stairway to Heaven solo with pretty good technique, but I still can't play more shreddy stuff. I just want to know some songs that have deliciously good 8th note or 16th note triplet runs or licks that aren't faster than, say, 100 bpm. You know, stuff that is considered shred, but is still RELATIVELY slow. I know I could just practice a bunch of crazy shred solos that I'd never actually be able to pull off for a year, but I want the satisfaction of being able to actually play some shred solos sometime soon.

Also, don't give a **** if the word "shred" pisses anyone off. I've been a member of this forum for seven years so eat my ass.


always with me, always with you by satriani and rain by vinne moore might qualify. the more melodic shred type ballads normally are fairly good in that regard- good techniques and still pretty difficult (especially to play well), but not balls to the wall all the time.

Quote by vayne92
Oh my god Sails of Charon, such an incredible song. I wish their were guitarists like Uli these days


Is this post going to start one of those internet death rumours?

Quote by Archer250

Yeah, that solo in particular is easier than say... Desert Island or Poison Was The Cure or pretty much the entirety of Cacophony's discography + his solo albums. However, that doesn't make it easy. Case in point:a Vengence is among YJM's easier solos. Anyone want to give it a try at nailing it down?


+1
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Quote by kimi_page
People who categorize everything played by certain person as hard... That solo is at around 140 bpm with 16th notes, and that's not so fast, but it surely takes time to be learnt, but it's not soooo fast and complex like other Marty's solos. That's my opinion, and that's why I mentioned that solo.


140bpm with 16th notes is hard to play. Full stop. People sometimes refine their statement to mean "140bpm 16ths is slow in the grand scheme of things" or similar but that's still bullshit. If you consider all guitar players, 140bpm 16ths is a very fast speed to be able to play at. Sure there are a lot of players who are hitting 200+, but they are the minority.

People who have been playing for quite a while (a few years usually) sometimes seem to forget that even playing 16ths at 60bpm is HARD for a beginner. For example, I can cleanly alternate pick at 180-190 16ths now and I find picking at 140 16ths very easy. That does not mean it is very easy, it just means I've practiced a lot.

+1 Dave, Zaphod, Vayne and Archer. They all know what's up.
Last edited by Anon17 at Apr 27, 2014,
#26
That's the problem. (I need to use word "shred" now) There is NOT a beginner shred solo, because, by definition, shred is playing fast and clean, good technique etc (I maybe missed something). But if we consider he's been playing for 5 years (which doesn't tells much, since it's all about how the one has practiced, but let's assume he's got some skills, because it's a good period do get descent at playing), then a solo at 140 bpm couldn't be considered that much advanced. Actually as you say, it's all subjective, but I've had in mind info about 5 years playing time.
#27
Quote by kimi_page
then a solo at 140 bpm couldn't be considered that much advanced.


140 bpm doing what? Crazy string skipping? Gurthie Govan style insanity? Malmsteen style fours? Tom Quayle-like fusion legato? What note division: 16ths, 16th triplets, something more unusual like 16th note 5s or 7s?

The speed of a solo tells you exactly nothing about the difficulty on its own.
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#28
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
140 bpm doing what? Crazy string skipping? Gurthie Govan style insanity? Malmsteen style fours? Tom Quayle-like fusion legato? What note division: 16ths, 16th triplets, something more unusual like 16th note 5s or 7s?

The speed of a solo tells you exactly nothing about the difficulty on its own.


I think he was generally speaking of 16th notes at 140 bpm. But you're still on point, the speed doesn't really have anything to do with it. Repeatedly picking 1 note for 4 bars using 16th notes is obviously easier than doing a 6-string sweep or something still using 16th notes at 140 bpm. It all depends on what you're playing/how you're playing it.
#29
The story was about 16th notes at 140bpm, and it was about Symphony of destruction solo that triggered this cenversation. Never mind, you got the point
#30
Shredding huh, may i suggest learning improv and playing over backing tracks on youtube, best way to put to use all that theory.
#31
Quote by kimi_page
That's the problem. (I need to use word "shred" now) There is NOT a beginner shred solo, because, by definition, shred is playing fast and clean, good technique etc (I maybe missed something).


Agreed.

But if we consider he's been playing for 5 years (which doesn't tells much, since it's all about how the one has practiced, but let's assume he's got some skills, because it's a good period do get descent at playing), then a solo at 140 bpm couldn't be considered that much advanced.


Kinda, if we know what other things he can play we can take a rough guess but honestly I've found that even songs with similar speed and technique can sometimes have quite different difficulties (and honestly I don't know why...).

Actually as you say, it's all subjective, but I've had in mind info about 5 years playing time.


That's the point though, the difficulty of the songs to you is irrelevant to the op. That's why when you mention difficulty of a song/solo/lick or whatever you usually have to consider the difficulty relative to the general average guitar player.
#32
Quote by Anon17



I've found that even songs with similar speed and technique can sometimes have quite different difficulties (and honestly I don't know why...).


That's the point though, the difficulty of the songs to you is irrelevant to the op. That's why when you mention difficulty of a song/solo/lick or whatever you usually have to consider the difficulty relative to the general average guitar player.


well, yeah, about similar speed and technique, I mentioned Fight fire with fire by metallica being more difficult for me than Angel of death (even though f.f.w.f. is even slower). And for recomendation, it's true. The one seeking for suggestion have to mention what he can already play, but he mentioned that he never learned any solo, so that's my mistake for recomending, because people verbaly attacked me but that's ok for me, they are kinda right.
#33
I'll tell you one thing that helped me, which is something that a lot of those guys use extensively.

Learn how to transpose a small two-string lick up octaves. In other words, let's say you have a lick that starts at A on the low E string, fifth fret. Learn how to play that lick, then the same lick on the D string starting at the 7th fret, them on the B string starting at the 10th fret-- these are three octaves of your A starting position.

Now you've turned that small two string lick into a crazy scalar run. Learn how to play up and down that run, not just mindlessly up and down but playing around within it, over drums and a backing vamp. Add slides and bends.

I think this is hands down the best advice for intermediate players. It will allow you to hit way above your weight class, and add original sound and ideas to your playing very quickly.

You can't just play the same two string lick in order in all three positions unless you can do it fast, otherwise it can sound stale. You should add variations, again slurs and bends, or play a different lick at each of the three positions.

The term shred has become synonymous with what sounds now like tasteless playing, but you have to realize that in the mid-80s when the term originated nobody had heard ANYTHING like Yngwie, and his three-octave scale runs would leave people standing there with their mouths open. Now we have cognitive satiation for that type of playing, so it sounds stale. To be fresh you have to add your own original elements and rhythmic interpretations.

Also, scales and bends and vibrato are what make "normal people" think you're playing with feeling. If you don't have them, you could be the best alternate picker in the world and most people would think it sounds boring. One way to develop that living sound is to try to copy vocal lines with every little nuance. Robert Plant would be a great singer to do that with because his lines are so crazy. I think developing variety and skill in slurs and vibrato is much more important than scalar shredding.

Also I somewhat disagree with the people who disrecommend Friedman for intermediate players. Get his 99 Lead Guitar Phrases and learn how to transpose them by octave as above, and play them with your own rhythm and stylistic elements, and you'll be sounding amazing in a big hurry.

Lastly, don't underestimate the effect of learning the basics really well. Pentatonics and blues are where it's at-- if you get good at playing them and can do it with groove and personal interpretation you will impress anyone who isn't a technical guitarist. I hate to mention Kirk Hammett but he has made a career out of shredding pentatonics. He basically uses them as ostinatos. Better, look at Tony Iommi. He plays them WITH ONLY TWO FULLY FUNCTIONAL FINGERS ON HIS FRET HAND and it sounds amazing. I think people who learn tons of scales and want to dive into the modes before getting killer on pentatonics are building lots of branches without a strong trunk.

Look at Yngwie. He's known for harmonic minor and neoclassical but he can also do incredible blues stuff, it just rarely shows up on his albums which I think is a pity.
Last edited by shredax at May 1, 2014,
#34
^ agreed, great post. especially that thing about the ocataves/repeating patterns two strings and two frets (3 if the b string is involved) up. That's what kind of kicked me to the next level (i.e. level 0 ) too. And doesn't actually require that much extra knowledge or thought, it was very much a "penny dropping" moment for me.

That's why I'm not that keen on people saying "there are no shortcuts". There kind of are At least, if you're not playing/learning 100% efficiently (which most people aren't).

(well, agreed apart from the friedman bit but in my defence, i'm not "disrecommending" him, I love friedman, I'm just saying I wouldn't really start with him. or at least, if you do, don't beat yourself up if it seems impossible

Also I'm not normal and I think bending, vibrato etc. are feeling much more so than shredding (and I like shred))
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
^^ Dave Murray, Zakk Wylde and Dave Mustaine built their lead careers nearly exclusively on pentatonics. And yeah, Yngwie has great bluesy stuff. His 90s albums have loads of them, too.
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#37
Not that I'd recommend starting with Guthrie Govan's shred licks, but this video shows how you can construct arpeggios using the "shortcut" idea you guys have been talking about. It's played with tapping but can be easily adapted if you want to play it with picking or single hand legato.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sItXfTxM5fo
#38
Quote by Sample246
I've been playing for over 5 years and I haven't learned to shred yet. It's pissing me off, I MUST SHRED ! But I think I've finally realized the problem. I've never actually learned any shred solos to practice. I spent all this time learning scales and exercises and shit.

So my question to you is:

What songs have good "beginner shred" solos that are not too fast but still shredalicious and full of tasty licks?

Particularly in the thrash and classic metal genre please. Megadeth? Dio? Metallica? Iron Maiden?


Start with Maiden - they have the most accessible metal solos from a speed standpoint. They also have great phrasing, so you'll actually be playing music rather than running up and down scales. Powerslave has a great solo that's accessible. Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner's solo would be accessible as well. Aces High is another good one.

Save Megadeth for when you have more experience, Marty Friedman's solos are much more difficult from a technical standpoint than anything ever done by Metallica, Maiden etc.
#39
learn arpeggios from hell by yngwie, not too difficult, but it is flashy and cool. will help alot with alt picking and basic sweepng
my old gf loved when i would bust it out (not talking about me pecker either)
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#40
Quote by diofan88
learn arpeggios from hell by yngwie, not too difficult, but it is flashy and cool. will help alot with alt picking and basic sweepng
my old gf loved when i would bust it out (not talking about me pecker either)


You don't tell a beginner to start with Yngwie. Ever.
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Jackson Dinky (JB+59) > TC Polytune Noir > TS808 clone > DOD 250 > Modded RAT > CH-1 > GE-7 > TC Flashback > Plexi Clone
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