#1
Being this is my first real post to this forum I'd like to
ask a rather odd question ...

First off , I actually really enjoy amp sims
(Ignite amps , GR5 , Amplitube)
and they can be rather versatile machines

But , as all guitarists do eventually , I would love to take it live .
now , I really don't have the $$$$$ to dish out for a dual Rectifier , 6505+ , (insert high gain monster here) so I was wondering with my interface , could I run that into a
Power amp into a 4X12 cab ? I was thinking about ..

(power amp)
Gemini Power Amp

(Amp Cab)
Randall 4X12

I do know that Animals as leaders (Tosin Abasi) and a variety of these "Prog-Metal"/"Djent"
guitarists use these kind of set ups (POD , Ax-FX , Kemper Modeler) into Guitar cabs ,
but I would love to not dish out $$$$$ for a good live rig , I've been preforming in a high school drum-line playing in 1000+ seating Gyms as a keyboardist .
Our old guitarist had a 6505+ halfstack with a LTD Viper Deluxe
but , he's moved on and it's just not the same ...

Anyways , I just need to know that it'll work , provided I have the correct cables etc...

And don't be afraid to tell me I'm Bat Shit crazy either , That happens on a daily basis

THALL!!!!!!
#2
you can use computer software live. i would be more likely just to run it through the PA though.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#3
I also like to play at home , so I would still like to play loud and proud at my house !

But our PA ins are pretty much all taken up on our main PA rig ...

Thanks for the input , but I would still like a 4X12 rig ,
(Looks BADASS and sounds better then a PA speaker system)
#4
Quote by exnihilo34

But our PA ins are pretty much all taken up on our main PA rig ...


Then what you need is a mixer. It would also allow for better sound for the whold band
#5
Quote by CorrosionMedia
Then what you need is a mixer. It would also allow for better sound for the whold band



That's actually what we wanted to do originally , and it would work ,

But , when I jam with friends I can't lug around a PA mixer and system , but it's an awesome idea and it would work , but I still want to be able to play loud and proud without a full PA ...

By the way , You guys are very quick to respond ! this forum is awesome ! I've been lurking for a while and it just seems like an awesome community , I'm staying .
#6
On the topic of guitar sims, you should check out S-Gear. There's a 2 week free trial you can download on their site. Look it up it sounds awesome and if you like it it's only 99$.
#7
Quote by KillerPhail
On the topic of guitar sims, you should check out S-Gear. There's a 2 week free trial you can download on their site. Look it up it sounds awesome and if you like it it's only 99$.


I'd love to ! I'll do that right now !
#8
So you want a poweramp and a cab? And to hook up a laptop to a poweramp?

No problem with that, it's not super convenient though.

You can get a powered PA/speaker, but that's not a 4x12.

Quote by exnihilo34
I also like to play at home , so I would still like to play loud and proud at my house !

But our PA ins are pretty much all taken up on our main PA rig ...

Thanks for the input , but I would still like a 4X12 rig ,
(Looks BADASS and sounds better then a PA speaker system)


A cheap 412 like the one you linked would most likely make you sound worse than running a cab sim through a flat PA. That said you can get good pro cabs for $350 if you go used. Marshall 1960 or a Line 6 SV412 come to mind first. Some Randalls also fly under the radar. Look for the ones with the "XL" badge on the lower right, that's a sure identifier that it's a good cab. Ditto with the Line 6 SV, make sure it says Celestion Vintage 30s in the bottom right. And the Marshall will say 1960 or JCM900 or JCM800 in the bottom left.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#9
Yhea , I am definitely looking at used , I just wanted to find an example of something around my price range . I'll check out those marshall cabs ,

Is there anything I should be aware of ?
I.E. impedance issues , wattage , anything that would destroy my power amp and or cab ?

Do NOT want to screw it up . ...
#10
Always match impedance between your amp and cab.

Make sure if you have a stereo amp, you're running it bridged if it has the option. I wouldn't run one side of a stereo amp without a load.

I wouldn't run an amp that is putting out more power than the cab is rated for. Most guitar cabs are not designed to handle the output from flat power amps. The typical guitar cab handles between 240W (V30s) - 300W (T75s). A cheap power amp can easily pump out 400W or 500W @ 8O mono or bridged. Just something to keep an eye on, to make sure you don't blow up your speakers.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Apr 29, 2014,
#11
Quote by Offworld92
Always match impedance between your amp and cab.


this is necessary for tube amps, not really necessary for solid state amps. solid state amps generally have a minimum impedance that needs to be supplied (usually 4 or 8 ohms)

Quote by Offworld92
Make sure if you have a stereo amp, you're running it bridged if it has the option. I wouldn't run one side of a stereo amp without a load.


+1 on the bridged part, but you can run a solid state amp with no speaker cable plugged in. that speaker out will just see an infinite impedance which will meet it minimum requirements

Quote by Offworld92
Most guitar cabs are not designed to handle the output from flat power amps.


i have never heard of that before, i actually am unsure if i know what that even means. what are you basing this conclusion off of? or maybe i am just being dense or misinterpreting something.

Quote by Offworld92
The typical guitar cab handles between 240W (V30s) - 300W (T75s). A cheap power amp can easily pump out 400W or 500W @ 8O mono or bridged. Just something to keep an eye on, to make sure you don't blow up your speakers.


the power amp he is looking at outputs 250 watts (RMS) bridged at 8 ohm and the cab is 8 ohm and rated for 200 watts power handling. so yeah, the power amp is a little more powerful.

offworld's advice is pertinent, you are taking risks if you crank the amp too high. personally, i am sure i wouldn't be running the power amp near it's max anyway and i'd take the risk, but i am not as cautious as most people.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#12
Yeah, because a laptop looks SOOOO badass.


All you need to go with your laptop is a powered wedge - which is something that will still be handy to own after you buy your big boy's rig. You can never have too many wedges.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#13
I'll be unpopular here... But I'd say split with the band for a bigger mixer and buy wedge or powered speaker to lug around when there's no PA.

You'll have both your problems solved for less money. a wedge or powered speaker might looks less cool than a 4x12 but if there's no head on top oc the cab, people will be asking questions, anyways.

Did you consider footswitching capabilities, though? If you only use one sound per song, no problem, but if you want even small changes in your sound in the middle of the song, you'll need some sort of midi controller.

What's your budget anyways?
#14
On the word about my laptop looking SOOO badass ... Well... yhea

But a powered wedge you say ?
I'll look into it , and my budget with the power amp and cab included is about ..
500-700 dollars ..
My thoughts on getting an actual guitar cab were not just for aesthetics but for the fact that REAL guitar speakers are going to out preform an impulse , (unless it's some MEGA CHEAPO speakers)

And on the thought of a midi device , any suggestions for a foot switch for changing "Channels" and effect ?

Peavey Speakers PV215D

How about this ? would this work better then an external amp and cab ?
#15
Quote by exnihilo34

My thoughts on getting an actual guitar cab were not just for aesthetics but for the fact that REAL guitar speakers are going to out preform an impulse , (unless it's some MEGA CHEAPO speakers)


See, this has always puzzled me about moddeling amps and guitar cabs. If I select a model for a big marshall JCM2000 and feed it through an FSFR speaker cabinet with an impulse for an EV loaded 4x12, then all well and good. It will sound like a JCM2000 going through an appropriate cab.

If I select a model for an AC30 and feed it through an FSFR speaker cabinet with an impulse for an 2x12 loaded with a pair of Alnico Blues, then all well and good. It will sound like an AC30 going through an appropriate cab.

But if I feed my modeller through a real 4x12 cab loaded with EV's, then it will only sound correct when I select the JCM2000 model. If I select the AC30 model then it will sound like an AC30 foing through 4 EV's, not a pair of blues, which would be the ideal speaker pairing.

If you are going to model then surely it's better to model the entire chain rather than only a part of it. Won't that be a compromise?

Unless of course you only ever use one model (or a small selection of similar models) where the real cab would be appropriate, then fine. I must admit I feed my Zoom G3X through the loop return of my Tweaker combo, but the amp's I select anyway (low-gain or clean fenders, vox's etc) are just fine for that style of cab.
#16
I see , So I should probably get a powered PA speaker system like the one I listed and model the ENTIRE chain . Cool .

Now , I play a variety of music , from Chili Peppers to White Stripes to Trivium and Slipknot so I guess it would be better to do it that instead of having one kind of speaker on all the time .

I just thought it would look pretty cool to have a Marshall cab regardless if it was plugged into a "Real" amp .. meh
#17
Well no! It's your call. Bear in mind I was asking the question "why do we...?" rather than saying "you should..."

I'm as interested in the answer. Maybe guitar speakers and FSFR speakers aren't that different and we don't need to worry about feeding modellers through dedicated guitar amp cabs. After all I do it, but is it the best way?
#18
edit: if you are going to use a guitar cabinet instead of a PA-style setup then you would probably best be served by bypassing the cabinet emulation of your software. most people don't like cab emulation going into a guitar cabinet

Quote by deano_l
Maybe guitar speakers and FSFR speakers aren't that different


there is actually quite a big difference between guitar speakers and PA/Hi-Fi speakers. there is also a big difference in how the cabinets are designed. PA/Hi-fi speakers generally also use 2-way or 3-way setups, splitting the signal to different driver components for optimal frequency response.

i won't go into any details about all the differences, but they are pretty drastic.

Quote by deano_l
and we don't need to worry about feeding modellers through dedicated guitar amp cabs. After all I do it, but is it the best way?


best?

i'd say i'd go through a PA with a modeling system for some very simple reasons and most of them have nothing to do with tone.

-something like a powered wedge is quite a bit cheaper than a power amp and a guitar cab. you can get a fairly nice powered speaker setup for cheaper than you can get a cheap power amp and guitar cab setup.

-cheap guitar cabs usually don't sound as good. i'd rather use a cheap PA with descent speaker emulation from my MFX than use a crappy guitar cab

-a wedge is generally smaller and more portable than a guitar cab (especially a 4x12 guitar cab)

-i can use a full range powered wedge for music playback, monitoring, keyboard and acoustic amplification, etc. i can only play guitar through my guitar cab

-speaker emulators will most likely give me more options for tones than a single guitar cab

-most multi effects come with speaker emulators, meaning i am purposefully not using something that is already on the unit and then paying extra for something the unit already does.

-MFX can emulate lots of different amps and speaker setups, if you run a dedicated guitar cab you are stuck running all those different amps through the same cab. this may not be a big deal if you want to run just one amp and it sounds good with the cab, but if you run a tweed deluxe setting through a 4x12 CB budget cab don't expect it to sounds an open back 1x12 jenson setup.

i'd more likely run a real guitar cab if i had a good cab and knew the amp sims i liked sounded great through it. else i'd most likely save cash and give myself some flexibility by using the amps sims.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Apr 30, 2014,
#19
Sorry I haven't gotten back !

Yhea , a PA with a audio interface , possibly a tube pre to warm things up and a midi device of some kind , I feel like it should be do able under
$600...
Is there any middle gain to high gain TUBE amp I could get to put out enough for that size venue ? Blackstar ? preferably a 2X12 Thanks !