#1
Will it get high gain sounds? I have one but idk.
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#2
Yes, depending on the type of hi-gain your looking for
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#3
Maybe try turning it on and playing? I wouldn't think its a "high gain" amp on its own but you can always use pedals.
Boost + fuzz turns my blackface type amp into a high gain amp to my ears. Let your own ears decide.
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Last edited by lucky1978 at Apr 28, 2014,
#4
I guess my real question is is what do people people mean when they are going through a high gain amp, sorry only been playing electric guitar for almost 5 months
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This thread topic is gold. I've been on this website for 8 years and I've never come up with anything like this. So yeah. Great job TS[457undead].
#5
Hi-gain is a very distorted/saturated tone. Do you like the sounds you get from playing through the amp? That is what matters.
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#6
High gain means very distorted/saturated as in for modern rock or metal.
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#7
High gain? Yes. Very high, "brutal" metal gain? No, not without help (or mods), it also starts to fizz if you turn the gain too high, especially if you have the gain boost on. Keeping a gain low and a kicking with a tubescreamer or such overdrive pedal and its saturated enough for anything really.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Apr 28, 2014,
#9
Quote by diabolical
I think the VK is med. gain, but with the right overdrive/boost could be considered high gain...or with active pickup guitar.


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#10
^ I consider the VK a hi-gain amp, amps like the JCM800 are what I consider mid-gain.

I guess everyones rating system is a bit diffrent
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#11
Quote by diabolical
I think the VK is med. gain, but with the right overdrive/boost could be considered high gain...or with active pickup guitar.


by todays standards this is pretty accurate. when compared to older amps it may be considered high gain but is more like a boosted 80s amp sound than todays really high gain amps.

I have one and do indeed use an overdrive with it. this will give you better control over the gain and help avoid the mentioned fizz. I rarely turn the gain past 5. if you are looking for a modern metal sound then an overdrive is pretty much essential and you may come up a little short for certain tones.
#12
Quote by Robbgnarly
^ I consider the VK a hi-gain amp, amps like the JCM800 are what I consider mid-gain.

I guess everyones rating system is a bit diffrent


Yeah, I've run into this sort of thing a lot. Makes me wonder why musicians insist on a subjective rating?

From an electronics standpoint surely we could calculate the actual gain of a given amp and go from there?

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! We use subjectivity and personal bias!

I think we all just like to argue...
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#13
Quote by Arby911
Yeah, I've run into this sort of thing a lot. Makes me wonder why musicians insist on a subjective rating?

From an electronics standpoint surely we could calculate the actual gain of a given amp and go from there?

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! We use subjectivity and personal bias!

I think we all just like to argue...


high gain is a relative term. there really isn't a subjective way to measure it. like many things the definition changes with the times and technology. advertising claims also don't help as Peavey does tout the VK as a metal amp. now we all know that "metal" tends to be hard to define even more so than "high gain".

and yes we all love to argue.
#14
So I like to play 90s alt rock so the amp is high gain enough for that?
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This thread topic is gold. I've been on this website for 8 years and I've never come up with anything like this. So yeah. Great job TS[457undead].
#15
Quote by 457undead
So I like to play 90s alt rock so the amp is high gain enough for that?

Absolutely, the plus side is the clean channel is really nice on the VK.
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#16
Throw a good boost pedal in front of it, a good speaker in, and put good tubes in (in that order as money allows) and it can pull some great grunge sounds. Not great modern chugga chugga, but it should work fine for grunge. Oh, and do the dummy jack and patch cable tricks.
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#17
Quote by monwobobbo
high gain is a relative term. there really isn't a subjective way to measure it. like many things the definition changes with the times and technology. advertising claims also don't help as Peavey does tout the VK as a metal amp. now we all know that "metal" tends to be hard to define even more so than "high gain".

and yes we all love to argue.


A.) Relative to what?

B.) If it can't be measured, it doesn't exist.
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#18
ish

what maazeus said, really
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#19
While were on this topic can someone explain gain stages and how they relate to the amount of gain an amp has? It seems possible to quantify high gain in this manner.
#20
The only quantifiable measure I've seen is when I took my amp to a tech and he hooked up the amp output to oscilloscope and proceeded to measure a sine wave which was the amp at "clean", then as gain went up it started to get jagged., i.e. distorted.
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#21
Quote by monwobobbo
high gain is a relative term. there really isn't a subjective way to measure it.


you mean objective?

i believe subjective tends to imply a relative comparison, objective generally implies an absolute reference with which to compare.

like in special relativity, motion is relative between two constant velocity objects therefore their observations would be subjective toward one another, but general relativity states something like spinning a bucket around on a string would make the string taught because because of an objective relationship toward spacetime (mainly that the bucket is spinning and therefore changing velocity in relation to spacetime, so the string would still stretch out even if there was no other object to compare it to).

Quote by Arby911
A.) Relative to what?

B.) If it can't be measured, it doesn't exist.


A) i am guessing expectations and other amps

b) positivism
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#22
Quote by gumbilicious



b) positivism


No, not really. I'm open to the reality that the accuracy of a given measure may be limited.

But "High Gain"? WTF does that even mean? If it's a given gain factor, I'm good with it (even a gain factor range), but otherwise it's just a buzzphrase.

Like "sports car" or "energy drink"...
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#23
Quote by Arby911
No, not really. I'm open to the reality that the accuracy of a given measure may be limited.

But "High Gain"? WTF does that even mean? If it's a given gain factor, I'm good with it (even a gain factor range), but otherwise it's just a buzzphrase.

Like "sports car" or "energy drink"...


that buzz phrase sells a bunch of amps though.

is it me or have we been having quite a number of threads asking about stuff like this recently? asking about the the definitions of a distortion vs an OD or what a real multi-channel amp is

but i agree, i only see opinions to be given but no real strict answer can be supplied.

of course you see why i mention positivism, the whole "if you can't measure it than it doesn't exist thing". i just had to poke some fun. besides, i have a group of friends that really get into alternative science type of models that are hogwash, they'd lean toward saying something along the lines of "reality resides in what we can't measure".

i always retort: "if you can't measure it then how do you know what it is? and if the discussion requires incredibly precise language, then how do you and someone else even know if they are talking about the same thing?"
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Last edited by gumbilicious at May 5, 2014,
#24
Quote by albertj.q
While were on this topic can someone explain gain stages and how they relate to the amount of gain an amp has? It seems possible to quantify high gain in this manner.


gain stages... is a generic term. i have an amp that gets quite a bit of distortion with just two preamp tubes, i have amps that have 7 preamp tubes that don't get much distortion at all

there is no direct correlation between gain stages or the amount of tubes and if an amp is high gain or not. it has much more to do with what someone does with these tubes (cathode follower, buffering, etc).

it is completely possible to put an amp through a large series of gain stages and do nothing but increase the loudness of the signal without adding any of the clipping distortion that we associate with 'high gain'
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Last edited by gumbilicious at May 5, 2014,
#25
Quote by Arby911
No, not really. I'm open to the reality that the accuracy of a given measure may be limited.

But "High Gain"? WTF does that even mean? If it's a given gain factor, I'm good with it (even a gain factor range), but otherwise it's just a buzzphrase.



Yup.

OTOH, I've got a preamp that allows you to choose between four channels that vary between a minimal gain signature and one that has eleven stages of tube (12 AX7) gain. There are a total of nine 12 AX7 tubes in that silly thing. It's pretty rare to find an amp with more than five of them, and at least one of them is assigned to chores other than gain, usually. Eleven stages of tube gain would have to be right at or near the top of the "high gain" chart if there was one.

Mostly "high gain" amps seem to be more devoted to high levels of harmonic distortion, which is actually a different thing entirely, but the distinction is lost on most players.
#26
^ yeah, it's distortion. "gain" is just the amplification factor, input/output (right? )

Quote by gumbilicious

(a) is it me or have we been having quite a number of threads asking about stuff like this recently? asking about the the definitions of a distortion vs an OD or what a real multi-channel amp is

(b) but i agree, i only see opinions to be given but no real strict answer can be supplied.


(a) yeah. I've been trying to write new stickies to improve on the old ones for some time now, but it's a heck of a lot of work. And it's really hard to keep it short enough that people will read it, while also getting all the information into it which is needed.

I'll post them up in 311's thread when I get them done, just to check people agree with the way i've done it and that i'm not talking nonsense/being pretentious/being way too long-winded (I'm well aware the ship has already sailed on all of those ), but don't hold your breath...

(b) yeah. it's a bit like the superstrat thread. we know one when we see one but try to come up with a definition and...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at May 6, 2014,
#27
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ yeah, it's distortion. "gain" is just the amplification factor, input/output (right? )


(a) yeah. I've been trying to write new stickies to improve on the old ones for some time now, but it's a heck of a lot of work. And it's really hard to keep it short enough that people will read it, while also getting all the information into it which is needed.

I'll post them up in 311's thread when I get them done, just to check people agree with the way i've done it and that i'm not talking nonsense/being pretentious/being way too long-winded (I'm well aware the ship has already sailed on all of those ), but don't hold your breath...

(b) yeah. it's a bit like the superstrat thread. we know one when we see one but try to come up with a definition and...


a) updates wouldn't hurt, i am sure some stuff could be added to 311's sticky page without any problems

b) oh god superstrats, be careful or this thread will catch on fire.
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#28
Well if amps are rated from clean/low-gain to ultra high-gain, I'd say it's high gain. You can play metal on it stock with no pedals, but it's not a 6505.
#29
Quote by gumbilicious
a) updates wouldn't hurt, i am sure some stuff could be added to 311's sticky page without any problems

b) oh god superstrats, be careful or this thread will catch on fire.


(a) yeah. I'll just post it in there so people can see what they think, then if it's ok-ed i'll probably post it again in the open forum and 311 can put a link to it in the opening post.

as i said, though, it's liable to be a while. I go through stages of getting a fair bit done where i write a bit every day for about a week, then get stuck or sick of it and go a while without doing anything. then I think of a way round the problem and get a bit more done again. etc. etc.

(b) yeah
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
This thread is still alive? I'm confused..
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Quote by snipelfritz
This thread topic is gold. I've been on this website for 8 years and I've never come up with anything like this. So yeah. Great job TS[457undead].
#31
Quote by 457undead
This thread is still alive? I'm confused..


Pffft! Have some respect for ts man...jk

Can someone elaborate on this whole "gain stage" thing? I've heard it mentioned before and am just curious. Its good to know its not tied into number of preamp tubes but what are they talking about, generally?
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#32
Quote by lucky1978

Can someone elaborate on this whole "gain stage" thing? I've heard it mentioned before and am just curious. Its good to know its not tied into number of preamp tubes but what are they talking about, generally?


In my experience there tends to be noticeable "jumps" in distortion levels as you turn the gain up on an amp - whatever causes those jumps would be your "gain stages".
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#33
Quote by lucky1978
Pffft! Have some respect for ts man...jk

Can someone elaborate on this whole "gain stage" thing? I've heard it mentioned before and am just curious. Its good to know its not tied into number of preamp tubes but what are they talking about, generally?


(all of this is "as far as i'm aware"- I'm no electronics buff, other regulars know way more about this than I do)

it is tied into the number of preamp tubes- just the most usual preamp tubes used in guitar amps (12ax7/ecc83, they're the same thing) are "dual triodes", i.e. two tubes in one. And also the fact that preamp tubes can be used for other things not related to gain stages (like the phase inverter, or an effects loop or reverb driver, or tremolo etc.), and that sometimes different channels use different tubes (i.e. separate circuit) means that it doesn't always appear to match up.

But anyway, a gain stage just means a part in the circuit where the gain is increased (i.e. amplification occurs). So in a tube amp, one of those dual triodes (and the associated other circuitry to make the tube function correctly, I suppose) is a gain stage, basically. So each preamp tube can potentially be two gain stages.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at May 8, 2014,