Page 1 of 2
#1
I have heard that the deluxe reverb and twin reverb are similarish amps. Is it possible to mod the deluxe reverb to make it sound more like a twin, eg. speaker swap, tube swap, resistor or capacitor swap etc.

I'm looking for twin cleans but 85 watts is just too much
#2
Ummm, they nearly sound identical already. Adjust volume and tone controls to taste. Done. The twin is just louder. see SRV quote below.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at May 2, 2014,
#3
Been meaning to address that quote... Love SRV, but that's bullshit.

TS - For these two amps, it really is just a matter of taste. The things a Twin does differently (mainly volume and punch) a DR just isn't going to do.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Last edited by tubetime86 at May 2, 2014,
#4
Super Reverb seems like the obvious in-between, but I don't see why too many watts is a problem. There's a volume knob and you're not trying to get power tube distortion. If you want Twin cleans get a Twin. A lot of the squeaky clean fat sound comes from the big power section and huge transformers, so the whole point is that the twin sounds the way it does simply because it is a bigger amp. You can mess with the Deluxe a bit to increase headroom but I don't think there's a lot of merit in trying to turn it into a twin. It's a perfectly good amp on its own, just get the size that works for you. There are plenty of good Blackface/Silverface options available on the used market in all sorts of wattages.

The DR is a perfectly good clean amp and you're not really going to turn it into a twin, so just get the amp that works for you.
#5
Stevie should try and play an MG.
Oh wait...

Anyway, there's not only a twin reverb.
Though as a general sound, I'd say a deluxe reverb with a dark-ish speaker would do.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#6
It's like the ruby slippers tube
time. Tone was in your hands all along. :-)
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#7
Is that why he used an entire house full of modified Fenders and Dumbles and vintage strats?

Obviously the technique matters an awful lot but SRV would be the first person to tell you that the gear is important too. "Technique matters" doesn't mean that a specific amp doesn't make a difference. They're separate statements.
#8
I think if you read those quotes carefully you'll find we all agree. Gear matters, fingers just matter a lot more.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#9
That's great. How is that statement useful in this context?

The statement isn't wrong, it's just that it gets inserted where it doesn't need to be. You could reply to every single thread in EG and GG&A with "practice more, technique matters" and it would not be wrong, it would just be pointless and unhelpful. It's an answer to a question that nobody asked. It doesn't help anyone pick out an amp.
#10
Quote by Roc8995
That's great. How is that statement useful in this context?

The statement isn't wrong, it's just that it gets inserted where it doesn't need to be. You could reply to every single thread in EG and GG&A with "practice more, technique matters" and it would not be wrong, it would just be pointless and unhelpful. It's an answer to a question that nobody asked. It doesn't help anyone pick out an amp.

Which context exactly? You mean about the deluxe reverb and Fender twin sounding nearly identical except the twin is louder? It's true. No reason to buy a twin unless you need loud. See post number 2.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at May 2, 2014,
#11
SRVs quote is wrong. 'Your sound' might require lots of gain, effects or other things that come entirely from the gear. Just because he can get 'his sound' from any amp doesn't mean everyone can... It just so happens that his sound is pretty basic in terms of its gear requirements. To say that applies to everyone is just stupid.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Last edited by tubetime86 at May 2, 2014,
#12
^ I'm with that.

It indeed was truer 30 years ago when people didn't have djent, but even then it was a hell of a stretch imo.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#13
Quote by tubetime86
SRVs quote is wrong. 'Your sound' might require lots of gain, effects or other things that come entirely from the gear. Just because he can get 'his sound' from any amp doesn't mean everyone can... It just so happens that his sound is pretty basic in terms of its gear requirements. To say that applies to everyone is just stupid.

You're wrong. I create the most brutal high gain tones when I play my guitars unplugged.
Ibanez Prestige RG852MPB
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#14
I was looking at buying an EHX Hog, but then I just improved my technique.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#15
If tone is in the fingers how come Eric Clapton's tone was so different when he started playing different guitars and amps - even when he was playing the same songs?
The ability to entertain a crowd comes from the fingers, tone mostly comes from what you are using. Talent comes from the fingers, tone comes from the equipment. They're different things.
Gilchrist custom
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Cathbard Amplification
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Last edited by Cathbard at May 2, 2014,
#16
Quote by tubetime86
SRVs quote is wrong. 'Your sound' might require lots of gain, effects or other things that come entirely from the gear. Just because he can get 'his sound' from any amp doesn't mean everyone can... It just so happens that his sound is pretty basic in terms of its gear requirements. To say that applies to everyone is just stupid.


You cant blatantly say that his statement 'is wrong'. SRV's quote simply says that your sound is more in your hands ie how you play. If we really had to quantify, then he's saying 50% or more is from your hands and the rest from your gear... Which is entirely true.

In regard to the original question, who cares if 85 watts is 'too much', you said you are after cleans, so high wattage shouldn't be an issue. The only other factors are price and weight. If these aren't an issue then get the twin. If you want power amp distortion at reasonable volume get the deluxe. IMO they're both great, similar sounding amps.
#17
They're similar but they still sound different to me. If you want the sound of a Twin, get a Twin. The wattage doesn't matter because you can just turn the volume down. You aren't going to get any break-up with a Twin anyways, so playing at lower volumes won't give you an inferior sound.
#18
Quote by 757ian123
They're similar but they still sound different to me. If you want the sound of a Twin, get a Twin. The wattage doesn't matter because you can just turn the volume down. You aren't going to get any break-up with a Twin anyways, so playing at lower volumes won't give you an inferior sound.


+1

same answer as his last thread

Quote by Cathbard
If tone is in the fingers how come Eric Clapton's tone was so different when he started playing different guitars and amps - even when he was playing the same songs?

Quote by tubetime86
Been meaning to address that quote... Love SRV, but that's bullshit.

Quote by tubetime86
SRVs quote is wrong. 'Your sound' might require lots of gain, effects or other things that come entirely from the gear. Just because he can get 'his sound' from any amp doesn't mean everyone can...



“Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It’s the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use.” - SRV

i really see nothing wrong with the first part of that quote, i agree that personal style of play is a large factor as is the gear you use to achieve it.

the 2nd part seems to be what you guys are dwelling on and i think you guys are making a bit much of it. i would ask why this statement stirs such resentment from you guys?

i am not asking why you disagree (there is lots of room to disagree), but i am more interested in why you'd cherry pick one part of a quote, discount another another part and then present distortions of the quote and transparent strawman arguments against the opinion.

there is NO answer (only opinion) in the style versus equipment debate, i find it more pertinent to address that instead. imo, players are best informed not to discount any skill set (technique, style, equipment knowledge/experience, production, arrangement, etc) that can make you a better player. all those skills are a factor in how you sound.

making statements over which one is more pertinent based on how an individual interprets meaning is a futile effort. 'sound' is a broad and ill-defined term, if an individual forces their interpretation on it then a useless argument over semantics is bound to occur.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at May 3, 2014,
#19
Quote by 7thString
You cant blatantly say that his statement 'is wrong'. SRV's quote simply says that your sound is more in your hands ie how you play. If we really had to quantify, then he's saying 50% or more is from your hands and the rest from your gear... Which is entirely true.

How can that be true? Electric guitar is nearly inaudible without an amp. I'd say that's more than 50% of your sound... You know, the ability to hear it.

Quote by gumbilicious
“Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It’s the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use.” - SRV

i really see nothing wrong with the first part of that quote, i agree that personal style of play is a large factor as is the gear you use to achieve it.

the 2nd part seems to be what you guys are dwelling on and i think you guys are making a bit much of it. i would ask why this statement stirs such resentment from you guys?

i am not asking why you disagree (there is lots of room to disagree), but i am more interested in why you'd cherry pick one part of a quote, discount another another part and then present distortions of the quote and transparent strawman arguments against the opinion.

there is NO answer (only opinion) in the style versus equipment debate, i find it more pertinent to address that instead. imo, players are best informed not to discount any skill set (technique, style, equipment knowledge/experience, production, arrangement, etc) that can make you a better player. all those skills are a factor in how you sound.

making statements over which one is more pertinent based on how an individual interprets meaning is a futile effort. 'sound' is a broad and ill-defined term, if an individual forces their interpretation on it then a useless argument over semantics is bound to occur.

True, 'sound' is a bit subjective... But as stated above, we happen to be discussing an instrument that is basically non-functional without the 'additional gear' aspect. It's just a poor argument for the context of this forum.

SRV doesn't say that his sound is mostly playing style, he says my sound is mostly playing style... That's where my problem lies. Maybe my sound is predominately gear based, why does he get to tell me that's wrong?

And let's be honest, when it comes to quotes on the Internet there's a good chance he never said it anyway.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Last edited by tubetime86 at May 3, 2014,
#20
Quote by Cathbard
If tone is in the fingers how come Eric Clapton's tone was so different when he started playing different guitars and amps - even when he was playing the same songs?
The ability to entertain a crowd comes from the fingers, tone mostly comes from what you are using. Talent comes from the fingers, tone comes from the equipment. They're different things.


agree to a point. certainly guitar/amps etc make a difference. of course different settings can account for a tonal difference as much as the player. not much of a stretch to know that an SG through Marshalls will sound different than say strat through Music Mans.
#21
People seem to confuse style with tone all the time. They aren't the same thing. You can often pick a players style regardless of his tone. That's because they are different things entirely. The former comes from the fingers and the latter comes from the gear. Your playing affects the tone to a degree but it's not the main factor by a long shot. Saying it's 50:50 is ludicrous. My tone is totally different when I swap amps or guitars but my style remains fundamentally the same.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#22
Put me solidly into the camp of your sound comes from your gear, your style comes from your technique.

If we put SRV on Dimebag Darryl's gear*, it would sound like Dime was trying to do a SRV impression. Dimebag on SRV's rig** would sound like a metalhead wanking around on a blues rock array.

Can you even do DD-style harmonic squeals on a Strat & Dumble?

Could Eric Johnson get his violin-like tones out of James Herfield's rig?***


* not literally, since he's dead.

** ditto

*** well, yeah, 'cause he's magic
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at May 4, 2014,
#23
The debate rages on, and often pits the "it's the talent of the player" guys against the "cork sniffers" who must have precisely the "right" guitar, amp, pedals, tubes, speakers, cords as the only way to get their "tone".

Well SRV, Jimi, Satch, Clapton, Brad Paisley, BB King, Jeff Beck, EVH, Santana, and many others couldn't be bothered with that nonsense for at least the first 10 years of their gigging careers. They mostly bought used and cheap, whatever they could scrounge up at the time and happily gigged every night displaying their unique guitar "tone" for all to hear. These guys could play on any amp within reason from Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Mesa, Vox, Peavey, sound badass, and get it done, night after night.

http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/myth-busters-stevie-ray.aspx

Once these guys had a few platinum albums and were showered with free gear and endorsement deals, they became a lot more vocal about preferences for certain gear brands. Endorsements sell a LOT of product and few guitarists have as many product endorsements as Dimebag. On camera he was all Washburn & Randall. Off camera he would probably say "Stop chasing someone else's tone and go out and make some guitar tone of your own. Whatever gear you choose to make that happen is cool with me." That was just Dimebag's style.

From 1994 Guitar World interview:
"Actually, there are two guitars playing that lead. One is playing the lead without effects, another guitar is doubling it with the Whammy Pedal, and both are going through one of those little 10-watt Marshall heads to produce what I call my "fry sound." - Dimebag

Use whatever tools or gear you need. Just make the guitar tone your own.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#24
wat

EVH, Beck, SRV and Santana were notorious for going through tons of gear to find things they liked even in the early days. And even if the stuff was cheap back then doesn't mean it wasn't killer gear. EVH's sound isn't going to come out of a Pignose.
E-peen:
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#25
Quote by mmolteratx
wat

EVH, Beck, SRV and Santana were notorious for going through tons of gear to find things they liked even in the early days. And even if the stuff was cheap back then doesn't mean it wasn't killer gear. EVH's sound isn't going to come out of a Pignose.


We all suffer tonechasers disease but they all sounded like "them" through dozens of different amps. And yes, for a while back in 75, Eddie's tone did come from a Pignose and it was unmistakable EVH tone in a small package.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#26
Quote by Cajundaddy
We all suffer tonechasers disease but they all sounded like "them" through dozens of different amps. And yes, for a while back in 75, Eddie's tone did come from a Pignose and it was unmistakable EVH tone in a small package.


Well, compare EVH's tone on VH1 to 1984 to F.U.C.K. They're all completely different. Just because the playing is the same doesn't mean the tone is the same. Compare Beck's early stuff with the Yardbirds to Beck's Bolero or his current live tone. Santana's Dumble and Boogie tones are fairly similar, but they're similar-ish amps. Jimi didn't even have 10 years of a gigging career, and spent just about the entire time dicking around with gear. His tone is unmistakably different from album to album (though so is his playing, TBH). Just because you can tell it's a certain person playing doesn't mean it's the tone that's the giveaway.

And you got a source on that EVH using a Pignose claim?
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#27
Style and tone are different things. I always sound like me but my tone changes depending on what equipment I am using. It's the same with everybody. You could pick Steve Vai if he was using a Frontman and an Epiphone es-355, but his tone would be different.
If tone is in the fingers then Clapton must have had a finger transplant. When you recognise a guitarist, it's rarely the tone - it's the style of playing. That's what identifies a guitarist. Clapton is Clapton, be that on a Gibson through a Marshall or on a Strat through a Fender. His tone is radically different, but it still sounds like Clapton.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#30
Quote by mmolteratx
Well, compare EVH's tone on VH1 to 1984 to F.U.C.K. They're all completely different. Just because the playing is the same doesn't mean the tone is the same. Compare Beck's early stuff with the Yardbirds to Beck's Bolero or his current live tone. Santana's Dumble and Boogie tones are fairly similar, but they're similar-ish amps. Jimi didn't even have 10 years of a gigging career, and spent just about the entire time dicking around with gear. His tone is unmistakably different from album to album (though so is his playing, TBH). Just because you can tell it's a certain person playing doesn't mean it's the tone that's the giveaway.

And you got a source on that EVH using a Pignose claim?

Well said. Although I think Mayer would have done the most 'dicking around with gear'. Cajundaddy, your first post on this page kinda ruined this discussion by over-generalizing things.
Tubetime, I thought it was safe to assume that we were talking about amps that are turned on... Do you go to a shop and check if the amp sounds good when its off?? Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you have said in this thread, I think we are just interpreting certain things differently.

Out of interest Cathbard, what do you hate more: Frontman's or MG's?? Seen a lot of hate lately
#31
The gear vs talent will continue to rage on and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

To the OP: At bedroom levels (90db) a Fender Twin, Deluxe Reverb, Super Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, Vibroverb, and Princeton Reverb will sound nearly identical if mic'd. Subtle differences in the sound coming out of the back of the amps to your ears due to room reflections. Only when you really crank em up do these amps sound significantly different with more punch and dynamic headroom available from more speakers and more power. Yep, I have played extensively through them all and have owned most of them through the years. Living in SoCal I am a Fender/Mesa fanboy.

RE: EVH and his Pignose, you probably won't believe it but I was in the room in 1975. We used to open for Van Halen at Gazzarri's Hollywood back then. Eddie had a very distinctive tone through every guitar or amp I ever heard him use.

While I totally agree with the pros like SRV, Satch, Carlos, Jeff Beck and others that most (far more than 50%) of great guitar tone comes from the fingers and the heart, not the gear, gear still does matter and their are practical limitations to how far fingers can take you. You do need an amp capable of producing decent tone. The more talent you have, the more your tone will shine through any instrument.

A few words on this from one of the masters of guitar tone:
http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/guitars/interview-carlos-santana-on-guitar-tone-ac-dc-and-his-new-blu-ray-dvd-529071#null
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at May 5, 2014,
#32
Quote by Cajundaddy
The gear vs talent will continue to rage on and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yeah, just not here. This is the gear forum, if you want to tell people to practice more go to the techniques forum.

If you think a Twin sounds basically the same as a Deluxe, just say that. Don't say "tone is in the fingers." That's not useful or relevant here. It's not a discussion we need to have every time someone asks a gear question.
#33
Quote by 7thString
Out of interest Cathbard, what do you hate more: Frontman's or MG's?? Seen a lot of hate lately

The Frontman. But it's like asking which you prefer out of dog shit and cat shit - I don't want either in my sandwich.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
the gear vs. talent debate is pointless

next debate: is it the tires on the car that make the car move or the engine?
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#35
Engine makes it go, wheels make it easier. Apply enough force, and you don't need wheels.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#36
If you want a DRRI to sound more like a TR then a) get an extension cab, b) put JBL D120F's in both
#37
Quote by Cathbard
The Frontman. But it's like asking which you prefer out of dog shit and cat shit - I don't want either in my sandwich.


HA! You admitted there's a worse amp than an MG. I knew you had some sense in you
#38
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Engine makes it go, wheels make it easier. Apply enough force, and you don't need wheels.




wheels make it go, engine just makes the wheels turn. apply enough force and you'll melt the engine into a single block of steel



this is a how a poorly defined debate is not beneficial to learning anything new.

Quote by 757ian123
HA! You admitted there's a worse amp than an MG. I knew you had some sense in you


that is a pretty big extrapolation. cath's distaste of MG's goes pretty deep
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at May 5, 2014,
#39
wheels make it go, engine just makes the wheels turn. apply enough force and you'll melt the engine into a single block of steel



F = MA

Wheels alone exert no force, therefore, by definition, cannot accelerate the mass. The engine is what exerts the force, wheels reduce the amount of friction the engine faces in moving the mass.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at May 5, 2014,
#40
Quote by 757ian123
HA! You admitted there's a worse amp than an MG. I knew you had some sense in you
If she weighs the same as a duck she must be made of wood and therefore a witch.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
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