Page 1 of 2
#1
Anyone have any thoughts on these three devices?

The first is obviously a pedal like the Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer. Although, probably something more high end than a Boss pedal, lol.

Next is the Ebow. Of course, this only sustains one note at a time, due to the fact that you place it against one string at a time.

The last is a sustainer switch.


I have a guitar with SD Blackouts (active pickups), and I think it might be useful to be able to sustain notes for longer than the guitar wood naturally does. These devices also have the affect of coloring the tone, which can be a good thing sometimes.
#2
I don't really have any experience with the latter two, but I think they work differently- the latter two are working on your guitar strings i.e. making them vibrate/sustain longer (far as i'm aware), whereas the compressor is working on your signal, evening out the peaks and troughs.

does a sustainer pickup work with active pickups? that'd be worth looking into too. i've only ever seen it used with passives (though that doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible).

the boss cs3 is alright, though a bit noisy (it compresses quite a bit which adds noise, i'm sure you're well aware of that, though ). i think compression might be one of those effects that the dearer ones are a fair bit better, though. that's what i hear, anyway. some other effects even the cheapies are pretty good (e.g. ods).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#3
The Ebow is cool to use with a volume pedal for violin-like swells and stuff. I find that I don't use mine too often, though, just because it's a unique sound that only fits in with certain musical contexts. YMMV
Gear
Highway One Tele (w/Custom Shop 51 Nocaster pickups)
Standard Tele (modded to Nashville specs)
Reverend Roundhouse

Orange Rockerverb 50 MKI
Vox AC4c1
Jet City JCA20H

And pedals!



"Shiva opens her arms now..
...to make sure I don't get too far"
#4
The ebow isn't really for sustain. I mean, that's what it does...BUT it isn't really practical to just throw it on the guitar in the middle of a lick. That's more along the lines of a sustainer pickup.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#5
Quote by Dave_Mc
I don't really have any experience with the latter two, but I think they work differently- the latter two are working on your guitar strings i.e. making them vibrate/sustain longer (far as i'm aware), whereas the compressor is working on your signal, evening out the peaks and troughs.

does a sustainer pickup work with active pickups? that'd be worth looking into too. i've only ever seen it used with passives (though that doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible).

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's got to be a sustainer pickup that works with actives. Generally, actives use different electronics though. (For example, 500k pots vs the standard 250k pots that passives use.) I imagine there's one out there somewhere. I'm still looking into it.

the boss cs3 is alright, though a bit noisy (it compresses quite a bit which adds noise, i'm sure you're well aware of that, though ). i think compression might be one of those effects that the dearer ones are a fair bit better, though. that's what i hear, anyway. some other effects even the cheapies are pretty good (e.g. ods).

Well, I wouldn't go with the Boss CS3, just a pedal like it. That was just a quick example. I mean, cheap compression pedals aren't really that great, imho. And, tbf, all Boss pedals are somewhat lacking, imho.

Quote by ibanezguitars44
The ebow isn't really for sustain. I mean, that's what it does...BUT it isn't really practical to just throw it on the guitar in the middle of a lick. That's more along the lines of a sustainer pickup.

Nah, I know. I guess I just want thoughts on all of them.


Quote by barden1069
The Ebow is cool to use with a volume pedal for violin-like swells and stuff. I find that I don't use mine too often, though, just because it's a unique sound that only fits in with certain musical contexts. YMMV

Makes sense. Yeah. So, very situational.
#6
Or you can do what I do - play really loud. Play loud enough and you'll get more sustain than you could ever need. Gizmos! Just play it LOUD, man.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#7
Quote by Cathbard
Or you can do what I do - play really loud. Play loud enough and you'll get more sustain than you could ever need. Gizmos! Just play it LOUD, man.

Or...you know, I could not.

Edit:
Playing loud doesn't actually cause longer sustain. It just makes things louder.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 9, 2014,
#8
Rubbish. More volume makes the strings vibrate. That's how Gary Moore and Carlos Santana get that infinite sustain thing happening. They don't/didn't do it with gizmos, they did it with high volumes. I can make a note sustain forever, all I have to do is crank the amp up. I do it all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkUpfw4Hf3w
Jump to 3:00
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at May 9, 2014,
#9
Quote by Cathbard
Rubbish. More volume makes the strings vibrate. That's how Gary Moore and Carlos Santana get that infinite sustain thing happening. They don't/didn't do it with gizmos, they did it with high volumes. I can make a note sustain forever, all I have to do is crank the amp up. I do it all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkUpfw4Hf3w
Jump to 3:00

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to make it louder. (I like having decent hearing, thanks.) I'm trying to create more sustain.


Yes, turning the volume up acts in a manner similar to sustain. But it's NOT the same. And I'm not going to turn my amp (thereby pissing off my neighbors AND hurting my hearing), in order to fake sustain.


So, if you have anything to add about the gizmos beyond "lol, gizmos", then please do so. Otherwise, you're not helping.

Edit:
Besides which, Gary Moore has a very high quality guitar there, I suspect. Better quality wood leads to better quality sustain. Also, notice how he starting shaking his finger after a bit? That's a good way to naturally sustain notes.
It also doesn't sound the same as what I'm going for here.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 9, 2014,
#10
WTF? Watch the video. To get that crazy amount of sustain he just turns up the volume. And no, it isn't exactly the same - it's shitloads better. It offers far more control than any gizmo does. You just have to develop the technique.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#12
You're an idiot.

Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#14
Sam, just go the Vai route. You know what to do.

Sustainer pedals are okay I guess...sometimes they seem a bit synthetic to me. The Ebow is pretty sweet but not very practical unless you're going into some sort of Pink Floyd (or whatever) breakdown where you basically have ample time to make proper preparations. The Fernandes Sustainer system seems to be the best solution for convenience and quick, subtle usage. I think the only downfall is that you could be placing importance on a pickup(when the sustainer is off) that might be sub par...I THINK...there are 2 Sustainer systems (Fernandes) One which is a pretty basic install. The other, you have to cut out a spot in the body. I COULD BE WRONG about some of this but honestly, I lost interest in the system...It really boils down to, "How much do you really need this???"
#15
I'm pretty sure Kramer has a sustainer pickup too....I THINK...It's been a while since I've even thought about this...I would definitely love to make my Ibanez into a Flo one day though...
#16
The vibrating thing from the volume is pretty much the same thing, but I understand about it not being practical if you can't have high volumes.

If I remember Boss has an actual sustainer pedal that does more of what the Fernandes does (with the feedback/harmonic sounds and everything) but sounding more fake. Really Fernandes I think is the best option but obviously the most expensive too.
#17
Quote by Dimarzio45
Sam, just go the Vai route. You know what to do.

lol...Honestly, a big fan of Vai. So, yes.

Sustainer pedals are okay I guess...sometimes they seem a bit synthetic to

In what way? Like, the sound is obviously "fake"? Or what?


Quote by Kueller917
If I remember Boss has an actual sustainer pedal that does more of what the Fernandes does (with the feedback/harmonic sounds and everything) but sounding more fake. Really Fernandes I think is the best option but obviously the most expensive too.

Yeah, that's what the CS-3 up there is. (See OP.) It's just...I've never had a Boss pedal that lasted longer than 3-5 years. And that's kind of put me off Boss.

Anyone know of any other companies that make a similar type of pedal?

Edit:
Honestly, a pedal may be the best way to go...the more I think about it...
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 10, 2014,
#18
Obviously fake? Ehh, yeah imo. They just don't stand up to the sustainer pickup systems as far as what I've heard already. In my opinion, as far as sustainers go(other than an amp's volume) I decided it was a "Go big or go home" decision with the sustainer pickups. I decided to put that on hold and haven't really thought about it since. But, SURELY, there's a pedal out there(Not a Boss) that can come close to the pickup system. Hell, buy an ebow and attach a little piece of velcro to it and the guitar to make it more accessible for when you need it even though that's criiiiiingy and somewhat corny to suggest For the record though, I love messing around with the ebow...
#19
Thanks for all the advice, guys. I think I'm going to go with a pedal, specifically the Wampler Ego. It seems like I could get that "sustain forever" effect without losing tone. (I suspect loss of tone is what you've noticed on most pedals, Dimarzio45.) Ebow seems too situational for me.
#20
You don't get any real sustain effects with a pedal. Just the illusion of more sustain. Not even remotely comparable to a Fernandes system. You could use a bit of trickery to make the Fernandes play well with an active bridge pickup. Just build a little buffer and stick it after the pickup and before the pots.

And Cath was actually right. The sustainer pickup uses feedback to keep the strings vibrating just like a loud amp. It's a bit more predictable, and of course no loud noises are involved. Sustainiac makes a clip on headstock version with a floor controller. Well, I actually dunno if those are still in production.
E-peen:
Rhodes Gemini
Fryette Ultra Lead
Peavey 6505
THD Flexi 50

Gibson R0 Prototype
EBMM JP13 Rosewood
Fender CS Mary Kaye

WTLT

(512) Audio Engineering - Custom Pedal Builds, Mods and Repairs
#22
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
(a) Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's got to be a sustainer pickup that works with actives. Generally, actives use different electronics though. (For example, 500k pots vs the standard 250k pots that passives use.) I imagine there's one out there somewhere. I'm still looking into it.


(b) Well, I wouldn't go with the Boss CS3, just a pedal like it. That was just a quick example. I mean, cheap compression pedals aren't really that great, imho. And, tbf, all Boss pedals are somewhat lacking, imho.


Nah, I know. I guess I just want thoughts on all of them.


(a) yeah that's what I was wondering. I suppose you could email fernandes to see what they say.

(b) some of the boss pedals are pretty good, some are mediocre... in my experience. It just kind of depends. Not too keen on the buffers in most of them, though.

Quote by crazysam23_Atax

So, if you have anything to add about the gizmos beyond "lol, gizmos", then please do so. Otherwise, you're not helping.


"lol modes"? "you're just reacting badly because we're telling you what you don't want to hear"?

Not so funny when the shoe's on the other foot...

seriously though I agree with cath when he says volume will add sustain, because it'll make notes feedback. high preamp gain will help too. but obviously high volumes aren't practical most of the time.

As i said, I haven't tried them but I kind of suspect a sustainer pickup is what you want. Assuming you can find one which works ok with active pickups (and you're ok with losing your neck pickup). They sort of mimic what high volume does to your strings, makes them vibrate indefinitely.

Quote by mmolteratx
You don't get any real sustain effects with a pedal. Just the illusion of more sustain. Not even remotely comparable to a Fernandes system. You could use a bit of trickery to make the Fernandes play well with an active bridge pickup. Just build a little buffer and stick it after the pickup and before the pots.

And Cath was actually right. The sustainer pickup uses feedback to keep the strings vibrating just like a loud amp. It's a bit more predictable, and of course no loud noises are involved.


that's what I was thinking. I'm not that well up on compressors (especially the, er, non-cheapo ones ) but I'm not sure a compressor will do what he wants. they're normally (IME) most useful for either evening out peaks and troughs, or for adding a bit more sustain when you don't want too much overdrive in your tone. But for limitless sustain, not so much, I don't think.

EDIT: also if you're concerned about lastability (it's a word, look it up ) I'm not sure going with something which has a 3pdt switch instead of something which has soft FET switching is necessarily the way to go. the other problem with some of those boutique compressors is that they tend to be designed for transparency, which generally means less squishing (I think) which is kind of the opposite of what you want. The fact the boss one doesn't sound so "boutique" is maybe even an advantage for what you want. Assuming you did decide to go the pedal route or can't find sustainer pickups which will work with actives.

EDIT #2: hopefully matt can confirm, but according to the freestompboxes forum, the ego seems to be a glorified dynacomp. Now, if my joyo clone is anything to go by (i'm guessing it's made nowhere near as well, but i'm guessing it does a rough approximation), it's a lot subtler than the boss cs3. I.e. far less compression available. Apparently though the wampler has a fair bit more compression available than the ross/dynacomp, so
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at May 10, 2014,
#23
Quote by mmolteratx
You don't get any real sustain effects with a pedal.

I know. But I was thinking if I could "fake" it, it might do.

Just the illusion of more sustain. Not even remotely comparable to a Fernandes system. You could use a bit of trickery to make the Fernandes play well with an active bridge pickup. Just build a little buffer and stick it after the pickup and before the pots.

I'll look into it, then. Thanks.

And Cath was actually right.

I know he was right. But turning the volume up more isn't an option.

The sustainer pickup uses feedback to keep the strings vibrating just like a loud amp. It's a bit more predictable, and of course no loud noises are involved. Sustainiac makes a clip on headstock version with a floor controller. Well, I actually dunno if those are still in production.

The sustainic one sounds interesting.

Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) yeah that's what I was wondering. I suppose you could email fernandes to see what they say.

(b) some of the boss pedals are pretty good, some are mediocre... in my experience. It just kind of depends. Not too keen on the buffers in most of them, though.

Yeah. I'm just not too keen on spending $100-150 on a Boss pedal that will break.


"lol modes"? "you're just reacting badly because we're telling you what you don't want to hear"?

Not so funny when the shoe's on the other foot...

seriously though I agree with cath when he says volume will add sustain, because it'll make notes feedback. high preamp gain will help too. but obviously high volumes aren't practical most of the time.

Of course he's right. That wasn't the issue. I wasn't asking about high volume. (And, for the record, Gary Moore's solution only works so well because he finds a sweet spot onstage.) There's 2 issues with high volume: 1) neighbors will call me and complain AND 2) then you're fighting feedback the whole rest of the time. If I wanted maximum sustain via high volume, I wouldn't be asking about "gizmos".

As i said, I haven't tried them but I kind of suspect a sustainer pickup is what you want. Assuming you can find one which works ok with active pickups (and you're ok with losing your neck pickup). They sort of mimic what high volume does to your strings, makes them vibrate indefinitely.


that's what I was thinking. I'm not that well up on compressors (especially the, er, non-cheapo ones ) but I'm not sure a compressor will do what he wants. they're normally (IME) most useful for either evening out peaks and troughs, or for adding a bit more sustain when you don't want too much overdrive in your tone. But for limitless sustain, not so much, I don't think.

EDIT: also if you're concerned about lastability (it's a word, look it up ) I'm not sure going with something which has a 3pdt switch instead of something which has soft FET switching is necessarily the way to go. the other problem with some of those boutique compressors is that they tend to be designed for transparency, which generally means less squishing (I think) which is kind of the opposite of what you want. The fact the boss one doesn't sound so "boutique" is maybe even an advantage for what you want. Assuming you did decide to go the pedal route or can't find sustainer pickups which will work with actives.

EDIT #2: hopefully matt can confirm, but according to the freestompboxes forum, the ego seems to be a glorified dynacomp. Now, if my joyo clone is anything to go by (i'm guessing it's made nowhere near as well, but i'm guessing it does a rough approximation), it's a lot subtler than the boss cs3. I.e. far less compression available. Apparently though the wampler has a fair bit more compression available than the ross/dynacomp, so

Hmmm...well, that makes it a bit clearer. All right. Thanks, guys!

I'll look into the Sustainic, I think. Hopefully, they're still making it.

Edit:
The Sustainic Model C (the headstock one) is still being made apparently. At $279, it's probably the best value. (Compared to the Fernandes, which is $359 and includes a bunch of shit I don't need, like an extra pickup and new electrocis. And basically requires using all that stuff.) With the Model C, it looks like I wouldn't have to change out anything!
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 10, 2014,
#24
The boss pedal isn't a sustainer, it's a compressor. I love compressors but don't recommend the boss one. I've got one that I hated so I sent it off for upgrades and it's still not good. My favorite compressor is the cmatmods sigma comp. Your fernandez and ebow are true sustainers and they use the same principle but the ebow only does one string at a time while the other does all the strings. I've only seen the fernandez as a pickup and driver setup. This means one pickup hears the strings while the other makes the string vibrate. This adds significant limitation to your tonal options.
Not taking any online orders.
#26
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Well, as I said, I'm buying the Sustainic Model C.

Good stuff, man! I'll keep in touch with you on how well that works out for ya.
#27
Cool. I'll let you know. It may be a bit before I buy it, but I'll try to remember to shoot you a message when I buy it.
#29
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
(a) I know. But I was thinking if I could "fake" it, it might do.

I know he was right. But turning the volume up more isn't an option.

Yeah. I'm just not too keen on spending $100-150 on a Boss pedal that will break.


(b) Of course he's right. That wasn't the issue. I wasn't asking about high volume. (And, for the record, Gary Moore's solution only works so well because he finds a sweet spot onstage.) There's 2 issues with high volume: 1) neighbors will call me and complain AND 2) then you're fighting feedback the whole rest of the time. If I wanted maximum sustain via high volume, I wouldn't be asking about "gizmos".


(c) Hmmm...well, that makes it a bit clearer. All right. Thanks, guys!


Edit:
The Sustainic Model C (the headstock one) is still being made apparently. At $279, it's probably the best value. (Compared to the Fernandes, which is $359 and includes a bunch of shit I don't need, like an extra pickup and new electrocis. And basically requires using all that stuff.) With the Model C, it looks like I wouldn't have to change out anything!


(a) Yeah, that's kind of the problem. I realise those volume levels aren't practical for most people (they aren't for me either)- cath lives out in the outback in australia

But "sort of faking it" would be ok if you were looking at a cheapo compressor (and it might be useful to have around for other things if you don't already have one)- but at $200 for the wampler, you're a fair bit of the way to the sustainiac pickup which will likely do what you want a lot better.

(b) yep absolutely. Just for a minute there you seemed to have decided on the "wrong" gizmo (or at least the one less likely to do what you want)

(c) No worries

And yeah I missed where matt said you could just put a buffer into the guitar But if the headstock one will do what you want with no mods and for less money, assuming it works as well (never tried it... or the "normal" ones ), it'd seem to be the sensible option.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
I've been working with Sustainers for quite a while now. Mine are mostly Fernandes, though I've got a Sustainiac/Fernandes hybrid on one as well.

The original method for maximizing "feedback sustain" is/was (as Catbutt notes) cranking up the amp and finding that spot nearby that would allow you to run the note indefinitely and/or change the note to a harmonic (usually an octave up). Mostly a late '60's thing. Santana laid down tape on the stage floor when he found his spot and innumerable others have done the same. The sound waves coming off the amp cause the string to resonate.

Three problems with this method: you need to be within a specific range of the amp to initiate and maintain the feedback, you need to be able to deal with the volume required (tinnitus and sound guys are your enemies) and you need to be able to NOT have the guitar feed back when you don't want it to. Obviously there are also issues with semi-and full-hollowbody guitars.

Several companies have made efforts to provide the same effect without the volume issues. One version took the signal from the bridge pickup and fed it to a mechanical gizmo that actually shook the headstock, and from there the neck of the guitar and thus the strings. Sustainiac might still have that available. I've tried it, and it feels weird to have that vibration coming through your fretting hand. Current versions, including the old Floyd Rose/Kramer version on the PC1, the Sustainiacs and the Fernandes, take the signal from the bridge pickup and feed it through a Sustainer driver (essentially a pickup used as an electromagnet) that uses magnetic flux to vibrate the string.

In effect, this duplicates the old "stand in front of the amp" business but eliminates the amp (and the resulting tinnitus) altogether. You can run a Sustainer on a guitar and run the results directly into a recording mixer if you wish.

This is one of my guitars with the sustainer installed:



Above, the sustainer switches are to the right of the Floyd. More conventionally positioned below:



One switch turns the sustainer on and off. It's controlled by a 9V battery mounted in the back of the guitar (some folks tuck the 9V in the control cavity, but there's already one in there on this guitar to control an active sweepable mids boost). The note will sustain as long as the battery lasts. The second switch is a three-way. One position simply sustains the original note. One position transitions the note to an octave harmonic. And the third position gives you a mix of both.

On most guitars, the sustainer driver is mounted instead of the neck pickup. Because it IS essentially a pickup used in reverse, it can also be used as a conventional pickup, and when the sustainer isn't on, it becomes your neck pickup. If you don't LIKE the sustainer as your neck pickup, it's usually too bad. Unless you use the single-coil-size sustainer driver and stick a different single coil size pickup into the neck bezel with it, as is the case here (that's a DiMarzio Fast Track II):



You need to be very careful with this kind of an installation; you can just as easily be left with a squealing mess.

Worth noting that there are three control pots on the Fernandes PC Board that are normally set with a screwdriver and left alone. Turns out you can also run them out to external pots as well. The most useful of these is the Sustainer Intensity pot, and one of the four pots in what looks like a standard control quad on this guitar actually controls the Sustainer Intensity. Between that pot and the harmonic three-way switch, you have pretty much all the control that you'd have waving the guitar at an uber-loud amp.
#31
Some other random comments:

A compressor works in an entirely different way and maintains your signal as long as that signal is above a certain minimum. If the guitar itself doesn't have good native sustain, you'll find your output suddenly disappearing at the wrong time. A sustainer will maintain the signal *at the guitar* for as long as the battery is live (no worries on a normal four-hour gig).

An eBow works with one string at a time, and it's a substitute for picking; you have to move it from string to string. You don't have the attack that a pick gives you, but that may be exactly what you don't want <G>.

Sustainers work just fine with active pickups.

There are both single coil and humbucker size (dual coil) sustainer drivers.

Yes, you can reverse the system and put the sustainer driver in the bridge position and have it driven by a neck pickup. You just can't use a middle pickup as the sustainer driver position.
#32
Quote by crazysam23_Atax


Edit:
The Sustainic Model C (the headstock one) is still being made apparently. At $279, it's probably the best value. (Compared to the Fernandes, which is $359 and includes a bunch of shit I don't need, like an extra pickup and new electrocis. And basically requires using all that stuff.) With the Model C, it looks like I wouldn't have to change out anything!


No, you do NOT want the Model C. That's the one that physically shakes the headstock, adds weight to your guitar (specifically to the headstock where you don't want it), requires that you have extra cords dangling off your guitar (including the headstock) and requires that you use a footswitch to control it. Altogether a complete PIA, in my opinion (based on having used the older Model B for a while). Try using that system wireless. Never gonna happen.

The real choice is between the Sustainiac Stealth and the Fernandes. The main choice there is whether you want the circuit board and battery crammed into your control cavity or if you're going to install the system (and a battery box) elsewhere.

In my case, I fully committed to the gizmo -- that's the Fernandes circuit board, below, in a rout on the back of the guitar so that I could place the switches behind the Floyd. Next to it is the battery box. IMHO, a much more professional type installation. This one's on a Gibson Axcess Custom:



If you're going to have one of these done, spend the additional bucks and send the guitar off to have the thing professionally done. Sustainiac does a nice job of installing their systems. If you're going to have a Fernandes done (or if you want to have a different neck pickup as on my guitar), send the guitar to Gary Brawer in San Francisco. He may actually blend the systems, putting a Sustainiac driver running into the Fernandes board. He's probably the leading authority on sustainer installations, including over either the Fernandes or Sustainiac factories (Fernandes will send you to Gary for an installation). Do not email Gary -- he sucks at email. Phone him. Gary does Neal Schon's guitars, did all the electronics for the Schon Signature guitars for Gibson, etc.

The other option is to find one of the Fernandes guitars with a sustainer already installed, but my caution here is that the installation will be very ordinary, will likely be in a control cavity and may not include a Sustainer Intensity knob.
Last edited by dspellman at May 11, 2014,
#33
My buddy has a Jackson with a Sustainiac, and we both have Fernandes guitars with sustainers. And the Fernandes is better than the Sustainic. The Fernandes Direct Guitar Shop has been deep discounting for several months and you can get a killer deal on a sustainer guitar right now. I picked up the Ravelle with trem for $600 a couple months ago.

http://www.fernandesguitarshop.com/33-ravelle

Oh, and don't listen to the fool that thinks you can't get sustain from a loud amp. And don't count on getting sustain from a pedal either.
#34
Quote by dspellman
No, you do NOT want the Model C. That's the one that physically shakes the headstock, adds weight to your guitar (specifically to the headstock where you don't want it), requires that you have extra cords dangling off your guitar (including the headstock) and requires that you use a footswitch to control it. Altogether a complete PIA, in my opinion (based on having used the older Model B for a while). Try using that system wireless. Never gonna happen.

Actually, I do want that. I can read their site (and reviews elsewhere too) well enough to understand it will add weight and have dangling cords. If it ends up being terrible, I'll probably sell on eBay and then later buy a Fernandes guitar with a sustainer pickup pre-installed.

Quote by fly135
My buddy has a Jackson with a Sustainiac, and we both have Fernandes guitars with sustainers. And the Fernandes is better than the Sustainic. The Fernandes Direct Guitar Shop has been deep discounting for several months and you can get a killer deal on a sustainer guitar right now. I picked up the Ravelle with trem for $600 a couple months ago.

http://www.fernandesguitarshop.com/33-ravelle

Yes, I suspect the Fernandes is better. For my purposes, I'm going to buy the Sustainic Model C though.

It may be silly of me, but I don't really feel like having to remove a pickup to use a sustainer. I really like the tone and power of my current pickups, and I'm leaving them in.


Also, I don't feel like buying a new guitar. I can't afford a new guitar now. I'm getting married in August, and even though $600 for a guitar isn't much, I think I'd still feel better if I only spent around $300 on a sustainer system. $300 is also low enough that I won't feel too bad if I end up deciding that the sustainer system isn't as cool as I thought it would be. The Model C is also smaller than a new guitar.

Thank you for your thoughts though, I may buy a sustainer guitar in the future!

Oh, and don't listen to the fool that thinks you can't get sustain from a loud amp. And don't count on getting sustain from a pedal either.

No one actually said you couldn't get sustain from a loud amp. (And if anything, I'm the "fool". Mind your manners, please. ) As stated, the issue is I dislike having my neighbors bitching because I crank my amp up too loud. I live in populated neighborhood, not out in the middle of nowhere.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 11, 2014,
#35
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Playing loud doesn't actually cause longer sustain. It just makes things louder.

And for the record, I'm sure he does find a sweet spot like most old rockers do but that's not the main thing he does from what I can gather watching him very closely on many videos. He always had a second amp that was turned on but not miked up. (and sometimes a third not turned on, presumably as a backup amp.) When he needed that infinite sustain thing he kicked in the second amp to push the volume up on stage.

Had you said, "yeah, but I can't play that loud" I would have just said, "bummer" but you didn't. You said, "Playing loud doesn't actually cause longer sustain."
You were wrong and now your backpedalling is just making you look foolish.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#36
While he was denying what you said, which he was definitely wrong about, he also made it clear he did not want to play louder. In two posts in a row.

So can you guys just admit you both acted a bit silly and get over it? haha
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#37
Quote by Cathbard
And for the record, I'm sure he does find a sweet spot like most old rockers do but that's not the main thing he does from what I can gather watching him very closely on many videos. He always had a second amp that was turned on but not miked up. (and sometimes a third not turned on, presumably as a backup amp.) When he needed that infinite sustain thing he kicked in the second amp to push the volume up on stage.


A lot of the old rockers (including Carlos) had multiple amps on stage (some still do) with only one (or none) of them miked up. Playing big sheds (particularly outdoor arenas), they'll often lose the feeling of playing "in a room," so the extra amps/cabinets are often there to produce that feeling, even when they're run at fairly low stage volumes. Neal Schon typically has for or five 4x12s on stage with Journey for that very reason (he plays with a Sustainer on his guitar). These days he's using Axe-FX IIs run to the PA for his main sound, though he usually has a mike on at least one of the cabinets available for mix-in.Here's Neal's rig: http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/16871-rig-rundown---journeys-neal-schon
Here's Carlos' rig...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBNm0Ax4Vzc#t=1441
#38
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Actually, I do want that. I can read their site (and reviews elsewhere too) well enough to understand it will add weight and have dangling cords. If it ends up being terrible, I'll probably sell on eBay and then later buy a Fernandes guitar with a sustainer pickup pre-installed.


That's for all the people who read over our shoulders and who haven't been to the Sustainiac site. If you should decide you don't like the Model C, it's likely that the whole business about it being a completely different setup from a normal sustainer will be lost when they pass it into the collective internet mish-mosh.


Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Yes, I suspect the Fernandes is better. For my purposes, I'm going to buy the Sustainic Model C though.

It may be silly of me, but I don't really feel like having to remove a pickup to use a sustainer. I really like the tone and power of my current pickups, and I'm leaving them in.


I felt like that as well when I first contemplated sustainers.
Nonetheless, I migrated through the Sustainer C and ended up where I am now.
Often what you THINK will be a good idea based on a spec sheet will prove to be less than that in practice.

Worth noting, as an aside, that Moog has a sustainer product in some of their prototype guitars. It's actually (I believe) designed to sustain each of the six strings individually and separately. While you can sustain a chord with the current sustainer, both a loud amp and the sustainer will usually resolve to a single tone at some point. This is absolutely perfect for a solo, but some folks want the next evolution, where each string can be controlled individually. It's significantly more expensive and complicated, but I would imagine that if the Moog people ever get people interested in that version and get some more production going, we may see that as a separate product at some point.

Oh, and congratulations on your upcoming marriage.
#39
Quote by dspellman
A lot of the old rockers (including Carlos) had multiple amps on stage (some still do) with only one (or none) of them miked up. Playing big sheds (particularly outdoor arenas), they'll often lose the feeling of playing "in a room," so the extra amps/cabinets are often there to produce that feeling, even when they're run at fairly low stage volumes. Neal Schon typically has for or five 4x12s on stage with Journey for that very reason (he plays with a Sustainer on his guitar). These days he's using Axe-FX IIs run to the PA for his main sound, though he usually has a mike on at least one of the cabinets available for mix-in.Here's Neal's rig: http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/16871-rig-rundown---journeys-neal-schon
Here's Carlos' rig...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBNm0Ax4Vzc#t=1441
Yeah, that's true too. Doesn't discount what I said though, I've studied Gary Moore quite a bit. I used to run my JCM900 combo as a wedge (as well as my main rig) specifically to get the big sustain thing happening after watching him. It worked perfectly. When I wanted to do it I'd kick it on. Bada bing bada boom - Parisienne Walkways.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at May 11, 2014,
#40
Quote by dspellman
I felt like that as well when I first contemplated sustainers.
Nonetheless, I migrated through the Sustainer C and ended up where I am now.
Often what you THINK will be a good idea based on a spec sheet will prove to be less than that in practice.

And sometimes, it works out fine in practice. But, I have some time before I buy this. (A month or so.) So, I'll see if I still want a Sustainiac C by then.

Worth noting, as an aside, that Moog has a sustainer product in some of their prototype guitars. It's actually (I believe) designed to sustain each of the six strings individually and separately. While you can sustain a chord with the current sustainer, both a loud amp and the sustainer will usually resolve to a single tone at some point. This is absolutely perfect for a solo, but some folks want the next evolution, where each string can be controlled individually. It's significantly more expensive and complicated, but I would imagine that if the Moog people ever get people interested in that version and get some more production going, we may see that as a separate product at some point.

Hmmm...that's a solid option too. If I decide to upgrade to a guitar with a sustainer in it, I'll look into it.

Oh, and congratulations on your upcoming marriage.

Thanks, man!
Page 1 of 2