#1
So, it's time for me to downgrade my amp as my current Laney VH100R is too loud for my bands stuff. I'm searching for a versatile amp with greater emphasis on clean sounds than distortion. I think 60 watts would be good, our band has 10 members with synths, vocals and brass going through PA. For genres, we play funk and soul and r'n'b, for instance Arethra Franklin, Stevie Wonder and Jamiroquai.

I don't have excess money, so my budget consists of what I can get for my Laney VH100R that's in good condition. It can be combo or a head, I orefer combo for easy transporting. I play PRS' SE guitars, which are guite trebly.

What do you think would best suit my needs?
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
Last edited by Tupu at May 13, 2014,
#2
Hey Tupu. I would try a Peavey Classic 50. The clean channel has a lot of head room, the reverb is nice and lush, and the drive channel sounds very good with crunchy rhythm, but for leads I would get some sort of distortion, boost, or overdrive pedal for a nice alteration of tone. I have a Peavey Classic 50 head with a 4x12 cab, and sounds as good as my fender bassman with more versatility, though the bassman has a unique voice of its own.

Hope this helps!
Craig
#3
I'd be looking at a Fender Twin or Deluxe. Something to punch out those 16th note chord chips. I reckon that most of your influences would have used something like that.
#5
How much watts do you people think I would need? As of now, the 120 w Laney is really hard to use, I think I've never gone past 2 in the clean channel of that thing when playing with the band.

I've been looking out Orange amps, any comments on those?
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
Last edited by Tupu at May 13, 2014,
#6
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#7
Mesas don't fit my budget, even used they go over 1000 € here in Finland.

EDIT: I'll post this again here because it's the most important question I have right now. Would 15 watt head like Orange OR15 give me enough room to play clean rhythm in a gig situation? I don't perceive our drummer to be that heavyhanded and we don't have a second guitar player to compete with.
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
Last edited by Tupu at May 13, 2014,
#8
Quote by Tupu
How much watts do you people think I would need?
Well you're playing funk.
Bigger is better here since you want cleans, you never know when you'll have to remain clean playing louder stuff.
Quote by Tupu
As of now, the 120 w Laney is really hard to use, I think I've never gone past 2 in the clean channel of that thing when playing with the band.
Why would keeping the volume under two be a bad thing?
Tip: it's not.
They didn't invent the master volume to be kept past an x mark, they invented it to be kept where people needed to keep it, and if it's there that you need it there's no harm in leaving it there.
Quote by Tupu
I've been looking out Orange amps, any comments on those?
Well they're orange.
Very nice if you ask me, but I wouldn't use one for funk.
They're more sludge-noise-heavy stuff oriented and the rockerverb II I tried had a plain bad sounding clean channel compared to the victory I A/B'd it with.

I'd go for an Ampeg GVT50 suggestion.
Hella nice cleans.
That or a used really old blackface head.
Name's Luca.

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#9
I misread the situation you described. I though your amplifier was going through the PA as well. Scratch the Champ idea, then.

Dependant on how large the venues are where you play, the Orange OR15 might not go loud enough and stay clean to fill the room if there's not a microphone in front of your cab. Orange makes fine amplifiers though, so no worries there. They have a very distinct sound that you might not like though.

What does the VH100R go for generally in Finland? How is the used market in Finland? (e.g. is the used market rather big or not, what brands can typically be found at what price ranges etc)
#10
It's not that much about staying under 2, it's that whenever we're having practise with less people and thus go lower volume, it's practically impossible to dial in volume that isn't too loud, and I feel like the Laney is more suited for bigger gigs than what we do.

We've only had two gigs thus far and they were in a venue not suited for live bands, rather someone plugging a laptop in and queueing up music, but I foresee us playing couple gigs in small clubs in the future.

The laney doesn't have any flaws in it, so I think I can get 1000 € for the whole deal, the problem is I dont live close to our capital and so the markets are a bit smaller. There's currently one used for sale online for 1050 in a finnish musician's website. That's why I might just give it in as a trade to my local music shop.
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
#11
Try a 12AT7 in V1. You may even get away with a 12AU7. Worth a try. ****ing sight easier than replacing the amp.
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#12
You need about 20 tube watts to run with the drums. Mic the amp when they mic the kit. Fender Deluxe Reverb, Hot Rod Deluxe, or Vox AC30 would be on my short list.

I like Orange amps for Brit Rock stuff but not for R&B or Funk. They do clean up but it's not the nice sparkly tone of a Vox or Fender.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at May 13, 2014,
#13
I really wish I was able to playtest an Orange amp, from reviews in youtube I've taken a liking into the tones they give but it ofc depends. I'll take my guitar with me tomorrow to go play some amps in the music stores here, definitely trying out Vox and Fender amps.

How would the tube change affect my amp? I've also wondered if I could macguyver half the wattage on the VH100R to 60 w, I do have access to an electronics workshop with the tools to do it.
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
Last edited by Tupu at May 13, 2014,
#14
Well those tubes I mentioned are lower gain than a 12AX7 (the 12AU7 being about 20% of a 12AX7). It should make it easier to control the volume at lower volumes.
The issue is the preamp, not the power amp. Forget this "lower power" nonsense and fix the preamp.
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Last edited by Cathbard at May 13, 2014,
#15
Quote by Tupu
I really wish I was able to playtest an Orange amp, from reviews in youtube I've taken a liking into the tones they give but it ofc depends. I'll take my guitar with me tomorrow to go play some amps in the music stores here, definitely trying out Vox and Fender amps.

How would the tube change affect my amp? I've also wondered if I could macguyver half the wattage on the VH100R to 60 w, I do have access to an electronics workshop with the tools to do it.

Even if you do it, cutting the wattage in half probably won't make that big of a positive difference. You want clean headroom for funk anyway. If you must try it, on some larger amps you can pull the 2 outer or 2 inner tubes to cut your power in half, but you must also double the speaker load impedance if you pull tubes. Google it for your amp before you try it. I've done it on my 100W head, & it really didn't help much for cleans or high gain.
Trying the Fenders/Voxes is a great idea. I've played a number of Orange amps, & while I generally like their sound, I've never played one that I would even consider for funk. I can't believe you can't tweak the Laney for a killer funk sound. The big Laneys I've heard seemed like they can do almost anything very well.
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#16
Go try the Orange and see what you think. If you dime the master volume and just use the gain control for loudness you can get some spanky tones. I had a Tiny Terror and gigged with it for a few years but I couldn't shake the British vibe. My sound comes from Calif amps mostly.

We also cover some 60s R&B from Stax, Motown, and Chicago along with classic rock from that era. Great period of music. Wilson Pickett, Otis Redding, Booker T and The MGs, Etta James...
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at May 13, 2014,
#17
You could drop the power in half by pulling two of the power tubes and switching the impedance down one notch but it won't help. I often pull tubes but it has nothing to do with what it does clean at low volumes, it's so I can get some power distortion at more drummer friendly volumes. If you're running it clean, it won't help at all. Not a bit. It will still be as touchy on the MV as it was. You're looking at the wrong end of the amp.
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#18
It's more like I feel the clean channel starts out too loud. Today we had a practise with fewer people, bass drums synths singer and trombone, and it's such a hassle trying to dial in a volume that sits with the others. It might be something to do with the practise space being awkward shaped, as when the brass player called me on being too loud the bass player couldn't hear me. I might just try changing the preamp tube into less gain, and see where it takes me.

I am satisfied with the tone I get from the Laney, it's just the volume problems that bug me. I'll go scour the shops and see what brings tomorrow.
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
Last edited by Tupu at May 13, 2014,
#19
Well a preamp tube will cost you about $10 each. I'm not sure if the 12AU7 will work (I don't know the plate voltage on a VH100) but it is worth a try. The worst thing that can happen is that you'd blow the tube. If it doesn't blow up it will probably be the best one but a 12AT7 may do what you want too. Here's how it goes in decreasing order of gain factor:
12AX7 - 100
5751 - 70
12AT7 - 60
12AY7 - 45
12AU7 - 19
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#21
Yes, sorry. Good pickup there. V3 for the clean channel, V1 for the drive channel.
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#22
So, I now have a JJ ECC81 in the clean channel and I also halved the amp, and the amp is a bit quieter. But the damage has been done and GAS is strong at the moment.

I'm really itching towards selling the Laney as it's kind of excess weight right now, sure it's great but I can really get by with smaller, more inexpensive solutions. And if I can also get a pair of humbuckers for my SE Korina Singlecut and coil split them that gives me more options in regards of sound.

At the time of buying the Laney my second candidate was a Bogner Alchemist, and I've found one used for sale. Comments on this amp? I also tried out some amps yesterday at the shops, AC30 had a nice clean but the amp seemed too inpractical for me, I really want a second channel. I couldn't try out any Orange amps because of some import bullshit favoring a single retailer in Helsinki. Of the fenders I tried a Hot Rod Deluxe III, it was nice and I'll be looking if I find any used.
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
#23
The HRD may as well be single channel because the second channel is a pile of crap. Have you tried the EVH 5150 III? If you want distortion from a Fender, EVH is the way to go.
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Last edited by Cathbard at May 21, 2014,
#24
No interest at all in a 5150, for a multitude of reasons. Too big, too noisy, too metal, too rare in these parts of world, too pricy... At the moment the stuff I play and want to play takes a more vintage amp sound, so no need for a hi-gain modern amp. If the need arises, it's time for a new amp.

How's Carvin Bel Air 212?
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
#25
The EVH 5150 III isn't like the old Peavey 5150's.

Never tried a Bel Air.

When I hear funk, what I think of is Fender Twin. Maybe just find an old one, the older, the better. I'd take an old Twin and an overdrive pedal over a HRD any day.
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


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#26
Yeah, maybe I should just sell the laney and save a bit of cash from my summer job and buy a used twin. There's really nothing that fits my current budget from the twins sold, all are 1000+.
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
#27
That sounds like a plan. If you want a Twin, nothing else will do. Well not without spending a buttload of money.
A Randall RM would be great though, if one pops up cheap with the right modules. You can spend some serious money on those modules though. There are some great ones out there, they just aren't made by Randall. Well, actually the Randall Fender modules are pretty nice, I have the Tweed..........but:
Check out this one.
http://salvationmods.com/index.php?page=voxy-face
and
http://salvationmods.com/index.php?page=twinface
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Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
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#28
Not really sold on the twin quite yet, I think if I just manage to sell my amp pretty quickly I'll buy a used Bogner Alchemist head that's on sale right now, buy a couple nice speakers and make a 212 cab myself. I had it checked out before the laney already, and like the sound in the youtube reviews. Maybe not Twin level cleans, but it's versatile and handy to use imo.

Don't really have a clue about those module stuff.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XngNmm2BtS4
The designer himself, and little funk strumming at 1:25
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
Last edited by Tupu at May 22, 2014,
#29
That's what I love about the Fender modules on the Randall - they all have a gain control. You can dial in a bit of dirt if you want to but they don't stop sounding Fenderish. My Tweed will go from crystal clear Deluxe cleans all the way to Neil Young Crazy Horse.
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#30
You might find this 50W Jet City interesting? It's the only Jet City to feature the Soldano Lucky 13 clean channel and different from any other amp of theirs.
(Jet City produces copies of high-dollar Soldano amps, and is owned and designed by Mike Soldano himself)
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Last edited by Flux'D at May 22, 2014,
#31
My go to amp for good cleans is an AC30.
But they aren't for everyone.
And most people here that know me will tell you I am a Vox fanboy.
And don't let the fact that it is only 30 watts scare you.
Its probably the loudest 30 watt amp in existence.


Quote by Cathbard
The HRD may as well be single channel because the second channel is a pile of crap. Have you tried the EVH 5150 III? If you want distortion from a Fender, EVH is the way to go.


I dunno what the hell is wrong with Fender, but the HRD (Be it the Hot Rod Deluxe or the Hot Rod Deville), the "dirt" channel is just one massive pile of shit.

I've got a friend that has 2 Hot Rod Deville's ( 4x10's ) and he's one of the best guitarists I have ever played or jammed with. Hell, he could make a Spider sound good.
But with his HRD's he never uses the 2nd channel.
He gets his dirt via pedals.
#32
Quote by Flux'D
You might find this 50W Jet City interesting? It's the only Jet City to feature the Soldano Lucky 13 clean channel and different from any other amp of theirs.
(Jet City produces copies of high-dollar Soldano amps, and is owned and designed by Mike Soldano himself)

Good suggestion, but Mike Soldano does not own Jet City, he just licenses them designs.
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#33
I thought Mike was a part-owner with two other people?
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#34
Quote by Flux'D
I thought Mike was a part-owner with two other people?

I thought they just did licensing like they did with Andy Marshall from THD

I read the Jet City site and your right
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at May 22, 2014,
#35
Don't have a chance for Jet City amps, seems like an unpopular choice in Finland, there's only 1 used atm and none in the shops at Oulu.
Fight the evolution, play large intervals!
#36
Quote by Tupu
Don't have a chance for Jet City amps, seems like an unpopular choice in Finland, there's only 1 used atm and none in the shops at Oulu.

In Europe, Thomann is the best place to order jet City from. They are really inexpensive new and sound really good (way above what the price would have you think).
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate