Page 1 of 2
#1
Hey, everybody!

I am in search of amplifier stacks. I know the basic layout of a full stack (head, cab 1, cab 2), but that's it. I can't seem to find anywhere helpful to tell me how to configure one, what kind of head is compatible with what cabinets, etc. So here's a basic list of what I need to know:

  • What are "ohms" and how do they affect compatibility/tonal quality?
  • What is the difference between an open and closed back amp and how does it affect tonal quality?
  • How do I know if the head will be compatible with the cabinet(s)?

I know I want an Orange or Marshall full stack (preferably 4x12 cabs). Which would be better for classic rock and heavy rock? Any suggestions on what to get with those genres in mind?

Also, anything else that you can think of that I might need to know when I go to buy my amps?

Thanks!
#2
Cabs must be rated at or above the wattage of the amp you use them with. Usually you want the Ohms (impedance and resistance measure) to match as well (on cab and head) but there are some allowable mismatches, you just have to research what you are using.

Ohms normally won't affect the sound quality significantly. Open back cabs have looser bass. For rock/metal you normally want closed back.

Accept for wattage and impedance, you don't really need to worry about anything else for compatibility.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
Last edited by dementiacaptain at May 15, 2014,
#3
What heads are you considering? "Marshall and Orange" tells us nothing, they could be MG's and Crushes.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#4
full stacks really aren't practical. if you absolutely had to have two cabs, set them next to each other or on opposite sides of the stage.

they don't make you much louder if really at all, they suck to haul around especially two. a 4x12" would do the job fine. plus most of the time you are mic'd and in the mixer.

what orange? what marshall? what is your budget.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#5
Wow! I haven't seen any serious players use a "real" full stack for 10 years or more. Totally 80s old school setup.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#6
My biggest recommendation when buying Full Stacks is to NOT buy the same cab type for your 2 cabs. Make sure they have similar ratings (Imp, Watts, Etc) but if you have 2 of the same cab, you will have the same or similar tone. When 2 unmatched cabs, you can have varying degrees of "tone-a-lity", Isolate one or the other or run both with FAT sound.
#7
Quote by uto998
What are "ohms" and how do they affect compatibility/tonal quality?


simple answer: ohms are resistance. tube amps use a transformer between the power tubes and the cabinet, this transformer wants to see a particular resistance so you need to use the appropriate impedance rated cab to match that desired impedance.

there are some claims to subtle tonal consequences of using different impedances. i wouldn't worry about it, just make sure you use the proper rated cab

Quote by uto998
What is the difference between an open and closed back amp and how does it affect tonal quality?


a CB cab has a full board that seals the back of a cab, an OB cab doesn't have a sealed back and the speakers are left exposed.

closed back cabs tend to be more percussive and provide more low end, the sound dispersion is usually more directional as well that is usually described as 'beamy' as the sound can be very intense when standing directly in front of the cab.

closed back cabs are far more popular to use with 'stack' style setups.

Quote by uto998
How do I know if the head will be compatible with the cabinet(s)?


the amplifier has two main stats: power output & impedance
the speaker cabs has two main stats: power handling & impedance

you will want the combined total of the speaker cab to have a higher power handling than the power output of the amplifier. generalization: you have an amplifier head rated for X watts (power output) and you have two speaker cabs rated Y watts and Z watts (power handling).
therefore you need:

Y + Z > X

so if you have a 150 watt head a two 50 watt cabinets then

50 + 50 < 150

and that won't work, but if you have two 100 watt cabinets then

100 + 100 > 150

and that works.

another better/safer way of thinking about it is that each cab needs to be greater than one half of the power output of the amp. the reason for this is because power is generally split evenly between the cabs (assuming the speakers all have the same impedance and there are the same number of speakers in each cab). so you need:

Y > X/2
Z > X/2

so if you head is 150 watt output then Y and X need to be greater than 75 watts.

************

impedance. you need to have the total impedance of the cabinets match the output of the head. sounds simple right? not unless you are familiar with hooking up resistances in parallel:

1/Rtot = 1/R1 + 1/R2

if your amp has an 8 ohm output then you need two 16 ohm cabs because:

where R1=16 and R2=16
1/Rtot = 1/16 + 1/16
1/Rtot = 2/16 = 1/8
take reciprocal
Rtot = 8

so two 16 ohm cabs connected in parallel is equal to 8 ohms.

this is probably the most common setup, a amp head set to 8 ohms with two 16 ohm cabs hooked in parallel, but an amp head set to 4 ohms using two 8 ohm cabs is also used quite often.

Quote by uto998
I know I want an Orange or Marshall full stack (preferably 4x12 cabs). Which would be better for classic rock and heavy rock? Any suggestions on what to get with those genres in mind?

Also, anything else that you can think of that I might need to know when I go to buy my amps?

Thanks!


both of those brands are quite popular for such applications. i have a JTM45 marshall clone and an Orange OR50H, both are quite different but both sound at home in those applications. i'd say the OR50H is a bit more versatile because the master volume knob makes it more usable at different volumes and it has more gain on tap if it is desired.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at May 15, 2014,
#8
Quote by trashedlostfdup
full stacks really aren't practical. if you absolutely had to have two cabs, set them next to each other or on opposite sides of the stage.

they don't make you much louder if really at all, they suck to haul around especially two. a 4x12" would do the job fine. plus most of the time you are mic'd and in the mixer.

what orange? what marshall? what is your budget.

this.

but whatever makes you happy TS
banned
#9
Is this for bedroom use? Cause if so, you are THE man.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#10
Yeah I'm just curious as to why you want a full stack?

I'm not stopping you by any means I'm just curious as said above, it's quite impractical
Quote by greeny23
i shake the walls of my bedroom. with mah dick.
Quote by Eppicurt
Quote by NakedInTheRain
hey, be nice to the hipster.
I hear they use false bypass switches.

It's, like, so ironic.
#11
Thanks to everybody for your input.

As far as the reason I was pursuing a full stack: I have no idea. There. I admitted it. Thanks to everybody who told me not to get one. I'll be able to get a nicer half stack now.

As far as what kind of Orange or Marshall: again, not entirely sure; I wasn't sure what to even look for because I didn't want to find a few things I really liked and then realize they weren't compatible.

The use of my amps is going to be for predominantly home use (not in a bedroom, in a full room over garage) to those of you wondering.

Thanks again to gumbilicious and dementiacaptain for your explanations.
*le me *le forum person
#12
Quote by uto998
Thanks to everybody for your input.

As far as the reason I was pursuing a full stack: I have no idea. There. I admitted it. Thanks to everybody who told me not to get one. I'll be able to get a nicer half stack now.

As far as what kind of Orange or Marshall: again, not entirely sure; I wasn't sure what to even look for because I didn't want to find a few things I really liked and then realize they weren't compatible.

The use of my amps is going to be for predominantly home use (not in a bedroom, in a full room over garage) to those of you wondering.

Thanks again to gumbilicious and dementiacaptain for your explanations.


I would seriously consider getting a 2x12 bottom over a 4x12 for what you are doing. still plenty loud with good sound projection. much easier to transport as well. back in the day you had to have the big 100 watt amp with at least a 4x12 but not so much these days. I use a 60 watt 2x12 combo amp (yes it's heavy but a dolly solves that) and that works great. there are fewer and fewer reasons to get bigger amps and cabs these days as many venues (ie bars) don't want then (noise issues real and perceived). sound guys prefer smaller stuff for better balanced sound as well.
#13
Quote by monwobobbo
I would seriously consider getting a 2x12 bottom over a 4x12 for what you are doing. still plenty loud with good sound projection. much easier to transport as well. back in the day you had to have the big 100 watt amp with at least a 4x12 but not so much these days. I use a 60 watt 2x12 combo amp (yes it's heavy but a dolly solves that) and that works great. there are fewer and fewer reasons to get bigger amps and cabs these days as many venues (ie bars) don't want then (noise issues real and perceived). sound guys prefer smaller stuff for better balanced sound as well.



I was recently told that 12-inch speakers project a lot more bass then much else; that is, they'll give a lot more rumble than any other size of speaker. If that's true, then it may not actually be my style; I'm more of a soloist and play a lot of notes from the 12th fret and up. Have you found this is an issue? Or is it just that the cheaper spectrum of 12-inch speakers has that problem?
*le me *le forum person
#14
Depends on the speaker. Some speakers have very little bass, some have huge amounts
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#15
Quote by uto998
I was recently told that 12-inch speakers project a lot more bass then much else; that is, they'll give a lot more rumble than any other size of speaker. If that's true, then it may not actually be my style; I'm more of a soloist and play a lot of notes from the 12th fret and up. Have you found this is an issue? Or is it just that the cheaper spectrum of 12-inch speakers has that problem?


You are probably looking for a Fender Champ then. 12" speakers would be all wrong for your music.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#16
I run my Champ through a 1x12 loaded with a boutique greenback clone. It sounds awesome. Running a Champ through a cab loaded with 12" drivers is pretty common. It's how you make them sound good.
Whoever told you that a 12" speaker doesn't throw any top end was full of shit. 99% of all lead breaks you've ever heard were through 12" speakers.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
Quote by Cathbard
I run my Champ through a 1x12 loaded with a boutique greenback clone. It sounds awesome. Running a Champ through a cab loaded with 12" drivers is pretty common. It's how you make them sound good.
Whoever told you that a 12" speaker doesn't throw any top end was full of shit. 99% of all lead breaks you've ever heard were through 12" speakers.


yeah very true most rock was played through 12" speakers so no issues there. i'll point out that solos can and should be played all over the neck so sometimes some bass response is in your favor. also for the record many bass rigs use either 10 or 15" speakers most guitar amps use 12" speakers. sure some small practice amps use smaller but 12 is the standard.

one more thing. when I hear a guy say "I'm a lead player" that makes me cringe. be an overall guitar player and play what the song needs. nothing sadder than a guy that can kind of play leads but can't manage a decent rhythm to save his life.
#18
Quote by uto998
I was recently told that 12-inch speakers project a lot more bass then much else; that is, they'll give a lot more rumble than any other size of speaker. If that's true, then it may not actually be my style


who ever told you that was making a gross over-generalization. 12 inch speakers are used for an overwhelming majority of electric guitar work.

i have a couple amps with 15" speakers and they sound fine for lead work.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#19
Gentlemen, this kid is probably 14 and just yanking our collective chains for entertainment.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#20
either that or is IQ is in the 70's.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#21
Quote by uto998
I was recently told that 12-inch speakers project a lot more bass then much else; that is, they'll give a lot more rumble than any other size of speaker.


That's Bolshoi.
Speaker cone size does not determine how low the speaker will do. Phil Jones has been making bass cabinets with multiple 5" cone speakers for years, and probably more 10" speakers are used for bass amps than any other speaker.
#22
Quote by uto998


As far as the reason I was pursuing a full stack: I have no idea.

The use of my amps is going to be for predominantly home use (not in a bedroom, in a full room over garage) to those of you wondering.



Even a half-stack is pointless in that environment. The truth is, gigging professionals are downsizing their rigs for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that many venues are miking smaller amps and running them out to the PA system rather than allowing a lot of stage volume. There are a lot more practical rigs for both home and professional use than a 4x12 and amp head.
#23
Quote by dspellman
Even a half-stack is pointless in that environment. The truth is, gigging professionals are downsizing their rigs for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that many venues are miking smaller amps and running them out to the PA system rather than allowing a lot of stage volume. There are a lot more practical rigs for both home and professional use than a 4x12 and amp head.


i am not sure if i agree with that it depends on the venue (yes i am mic'd) but i feel the projection is better and with my cabs it is beneficial because i can mix speakers better to my taste.

i have 2x12"s as well, and i gig with them sometimes, but not all the time.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#24
I go between 2x12, 4x12 and 6x12. They all have their charms. Both, that's what you have. What's this "or" smeg of which you speak?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#25
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i am not sure if i agree with that it depends on the venue (yes i am mic'd) but i feel the projection is better and with my cabs it is beneficial because i can mix speakers better to my taste.

i have 2x12"s as well, and i gig with them sometimes, but not all the time.


the key really is HOME which just plain doesn't require a 4x12 or even any more than a 1x12. yes being able to mix and match speakers is very useful but not really needed just for practice. as far as venues go I know in my part of the world many bars just plain don't want stacks or even 100 watt amps. some of this is about the perception that a 100 watter is to loud even though that may not be the case. after to many noise complaints (and very strict noise laws) the bars want to be able to control the volume as much as possible. in the case of the OP I think he just has seen to many videos of bands with a huge backline and assumes that you need this to be a "rock star" rather than for a specific need.
#26
Come on, when we were young we all wanted full stacks!

Then we learnt our trade and what that really meant. At the very least it will mean someone who can justify one will be able to pick one up used off the OP in a few months time.

OP. You don't need a full stack. You can have a full stack, or a half stack, but you don't need one.

You don't need 100 watts of power to deafen yourself. I did it with 30, although that was an AC30 which sneaks up behind big 100 watt stacks, pulls their heads off and then shits down the hole left behind.

Get something smaller that you will actually play. Spend the rest on lessons. although... you do have a decent guitar don't you?
#27
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i am not sure if i agree with that it depends on the venue (yes i am mic'd) but i feel the projection is better and with my cabs it is beneficial because i can mix speakers better to my taste.

i have 2x12"s as well, and i gig with them sometimes, but not all the time.


I have four 4x12s, all of which are sitting in storage these days.

One of the issues is "projection." A 4x12 acts, sonically, like a single large speaker of about 27-30" diameter. It begins beaming treble at around 500Hz (a single 12" speaker does so at around 1300Hz). This means that if you're off-axis, you're hearing something completely different from what someone right ON axis is going to hear. The guitarist, who is not directly in front of the speaker cabinet, hears something much mellower and has no idea what his audience is hearing (ice-pick treble) or why they're covering their ears and wondering why that guitarist doesn't realize he has such crappy tone.

When you mike a single speaker, of course, the "mix" of speakers becomes immaterial. What goes out over the PA is completely different from what you're hearing from that 4x12, because a close miked cabinet doesn't develop things like acoustic coupling until far beyond the mike itself. What really tickles me are the people who fuss over "X-pattern" arrangements (that do nothing whatever).

Remember that the 4x12 was never "designed" -- it was a product of Jim Marshall needing to enclose four 25W 12" speakers in a single cabinet so that his 100W amps wouldn't blow up fewer speakers. The design happened with chalk on a cement floor. When they discovered that the back panel of the cabinets resonated in a very ugly way at a frequency with a wavelength corresponding to the diagonal measurement of that panel, they added the 2x4 brace to the center, to move it up an octave or two. While there are those who claim that the 4x12 is the sound of rock and roll, remember that's not exactly true. Much of recording was done with a close-miked speaker (or with, occasionally, smaller amps altogether in studio), and only occasionally with a "room" mike retained in the mix.

Modern cabinet designers (not many in the guitar industry, but they're showing up in the bass guitar side of things) are making inroads, though manufacturers still crank out the relatively cheap carpentry and cheap speakers that the 4x12 represents. Bass players are benefiting from lower lows, crispy highs, greater power handling, much wider dispersion of the entire range of sound, smaller size and much-reduced weight compared to their in-the-dark guitar brethren. All thanks to new designs from folks like Alex Claber (barefacedbass.com), Dave Green (fEARful, fEARless and Crazy 8 cabinets) and more.
Last edited by dspellman at May 19, 2014,
#28
In short, a quality 1x12 cab is more than plenty for most live guitar situations in terms of sound. The rest is fashion and stage props. Nothing wrong with that of course if you need the look for your stage show.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#29
Quote by dspellman
I have four 4x12s, all of which are sitting in storage these days.

One of the issues is "projection." A 4x12 acts, sonically, like a single large speaker of about 27-30" diameter. It begins beaming treble at around 500Hz (a single 12" speaker does so at around 1300Hz). This means that if you're off-axis, you're hearing something completely different from what someone right ON axis is going to hear. The guitarist, who is not directly in front of the speaker cabinet, hears something much mellower and has no idea what his audience is hearing (ice-pick treble) or why they're covering their ears and wondering why that guitarist doesn't realize he has such crappy tone.

When you mike a single speaker, of course, the "mix" of speakers becomes immaterial. What goes out over the PA is completely different from what you're hearing from that 4x12, because a close miked cabinet doesn't develop things like acoustic coupling until far beyond the mike itself. What really tickles me are the people who fuss over "X-pattern" arrangements (that do nothing whatever).

Remember that the 4x12 was never "designed" -- it was a product of Jim Marshall needing to enclose four 25W 12" speakers in a single cabinet so that his 100W amps wouldn't blow up fewer speakers. The design happened with chalk on a cement floor. When they discovered that the back panel of the cabinets resonated in a very ugly way at a frequency with a wavelength corresponding to the diagonal measurement of that panel, they added the 2x4 brace to the center, to move it up an octave or two. While there are those who claim that the 4x12 is the sound of rock and roll, remember that's not exactly true. Much of recording was done with a close-miked speaker (or with, occasionally, smaller amps altogether in studio), and only occasionally with a "room" mike retained in the mix.

Modern cabinet designers (not many in the guitar industry, but they're showing up in the bass guitar side of things) are making inroads, though manufacturers still crank out the relatively cheap carpentry and cheap speakers that the 4x12 represents. Bass players are benefiting from lower lows, crispy highs, greater power handling, much wider dispersion of the entire range of sound, smaller size and much-reduced weight compared to their in-the-dark guitar brethren. All thanks to new designs from folks like Alex Claber (barefacedbass.com), Dave Green (fEARful, fEARless and Crazy 8 cabinets) and more.

yep, and 99% of musicians will not pay the premium of what they want per cab, so your point is rather moot (even if it has a good foundation)

look at it through the eyes of a struggling musician, by a cab I know works well for $300 used or buy a $1500 cab because someone online said it was "awesome"
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#30
The full stack came into existence because Pete Townsend was diming his amps and blowing up a single 100W 4x12 all the time. He originally commissioned Jim Marshall to make an 8x12 but his roadies bitched so hard about the size and weight that he got Jim to cut it in half and turn it into the full stack as we know it today.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#31
Quote by dspellman
Even a half-stack is pointless in that environment. The truth is, gigging professionals are downsizing their rigs for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that many venues are miking smaller amps and running them out to the PA system rather than allowing a lot of stage volume. There are a lot more practical rigs for both home and professional use than a 4x12 and amp head.


There are a few problems with your logic: one, I don't want nor can I afford a decent PA system nor can I justify buying one because I don't actually need one. I just need something that sounds good and has a little more than 30 watts of power. I'm probably not going to get a 4x12 with an amp head now thanks to everybody telling me it's pointless. So what, in your opinion, is better for home use than a half-stack?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote by Cajundaddy
Gentlemen, this kid is probably 14 and just yanking our collective chains for entertainment.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
either that or is IQ is in the 70's.


You guys may be correct that I'm stupid, young, and inexperienced. In fact, I am 14.

However, everybody was where I am at one point; all of you who are 15 and over were 14 at a stage in your life, so it doesn't automatically alienate me from learning or estrange me from any capability of being smart. Would you admit you were stupid and inexperienced when you were 14?

I sincerely desire to learn about guitars and amps and which brands are the best and worst and which are better than others so I can spread my knowledge on to other people. Also, I play guitar upwards of 6+ hours a day. That may not seem like much to most people, but for me, that's playing at every chance I get. I only want to improve.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote by deano_l
Come on, when we were young we all wanted full stacks!

Then we learnt our trade and what that really meant. At the very least it will mean someone who can justify one will be able to pick one up used off the OP in a few months time.

OP. You don't need a full stack. You can have a full stack, or a half stack, but you don't need one.

You don't need 100 watts of power to deafen yourself. I did it with 30, although that was an AC30 which sneaks up behind big 100 watt stacks, pulls their heads off and then shits down the hole left behind.

Get something smaller that you will actually play. Spend the rest on lessons. although... you do have a decent guitar don't you?


The only reason I want a full/half stack is because I've been told by plenty of people that they're great. In fact, probably anything is better than the 30-watt Marshall solid-state I've got right now. I don't need any more lessons, but I do have an okay guitar: a PRS SE Custom 24.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone else, thanks for your input and convincing me that 12-inch speakers aren't really that bad after all. I'll have to inform that person that he was wrong about them.
*le me *le forum person
#32
A Vyper Tube 60 would do you nicely. Look for a used one if it's too expensive new. Expect to replace the power tubes if it's used. You should always have a spare pair anyway though, even if buy a new one.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at May 19, 2014,
#33
A Vypyr 60 might be a good choice or maybe a Peavey Classic 30. I would have loved a Classic 30 when I was 14.

At the time I was playing in a garage band with this terrible SS Teisco amp that just sounded awful. We played a few gigs with that thing and it was worse than useless. I figured out that my dad had this old tube console stereo and by jury-rigging the input, I could plug my guitar in using the Teisco head as a preamp, it sounded GREAT! We played two backyard parties with the band carting around this huge Danish console stereo (very hip looking...not). After that Dad said get a damn job and buy yourself a real amp.

Find a nice 20-40w 1x12 tube amp and never look back. You can fill the game room, play school dances, and yes, backyard parties all night and sound like a pro if you got the chops. I have played 100s of gigs all over the southwest USA with just such a rig and never needed more amp than that. Vypyr 60, Classic 30, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe will all get it done.

Leave the full stack to players who have paid roadies and amp techs to roll em around, set em up, and keep them running for the stadium shows.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at May 20, 2014,
#34
read this thread, I asked the same question and got many helpful responses.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1640267
Quote by lolmnt
I love to have my vag pounded by guys who make lame threads on the internet!


Quote by snipelfritz
This thread topic is gold. I've been on this website for 8 years and I've never come up with anything like this. So yeah. Great job TS[457undead].
#35
Okay, here is the first piece of wisdom. A valve amp at 30 watts, for many reasons, is very much louder than a 30 watt solid state or modelling amp.

Ss a 30 watt valve amp is going to deafen you and everyone in the area on full Rory! Seriously, when I said my old non master volume AC30 could keep up with 100 watt Marshall stacks I wasn't joking.

It's an old bit of knowledge but worth repeating... Doubling the wattage of a valve amp doesn't double the volume. It's a logarithmic scale and to double the volume you need 10, yes ten, times the wattage. A hundred watt amp will be twice as loud as a ten watt amp. But only on the bench! In reality their are still plenty of factors that affect final volume.

I think what I'm trying to say is that you don't need thirty watts in a VALVE amp for home practice, unless you live on a farm with no neighbours within four of five miles of course.

Most 5 watt valve amps are overwhelmingly loud at full chat in a small space in fact. Of course a good master volume and power scaling can work wonders in any amp and make everything moot. But not quite, because everything is a compromise and big amps are built by manufacturers to sound their best when turned up loud on stages, which is what they were designed for.

Practice amps are different beasts from stage gear. They are both designed to get the best out of them in their respective environments, the home or practice space, and the stage in a noisy environment.

You have a great guitar. I'm a Vox man so my suggestion will always be an AC4 or AC15 or if you can get one, a Vox TB18, which has a great master volume. My 15 watt Egnater Tweaker is plenty loud enough in my practice room and can completely drown out my sons 40 watt valvetronix modelling amp.

You end to be looking at bigger amps if you need to play with a drummer. That's the major turning point in the road. That's the point when you need to start looking bigger.

Finally, all I have left to say really is that you need to go and try out some valve amps, big and small and turn them to the volume you can use at home. Even download a sound-pressure level (SPL is what we use to measure loudness in the ear) and get a good volume on your current amp. Measure the SPL, then in a shop get the same SPL on a variety of valve amps. You will be surprised how low that volume knob needs to be!

Good luck on your journey. It never stops. You have the right attitude about wanting to learn. Just keep playing. It's always better to learn and practice. That will make you better for life. A piece of gear will only make you better untIl the power goes off!
#36
Quote by deano_l


Good luck on your journey. It never stops. You have the right attitude about wanting to learn. Just keep playing. It's always better to learn and practice. That will make you better for life. A piece of gear will only make you better untIl the power goes off!


excellent advice.

deano, i haven't seen too many of your posts as i recall, but i like what i am hearing from a community standpoint. stay here.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#37
^ I could be wrong, but I think he used to hang out in the gear forums a while back. his username is familiar, I think. But yeah agreed.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
Quote by deano_l
Of course a good master volume and power scaling can work wonders in any amp and make everything moot. But not quite, because everything is a compromise and big amps are built by manufacturers to sound their best when turned up loud on stages, which is what they were designed for.

Practice amps are different beasts from stage gear. They are both designed to get the best out of them in their respective environments, the home or practice space, and the stage in a noisy environment.


Just thought I'd bring this up (I agree with most of what you're saying, fwiw).

I think it depends on the amps you're looking at- some high wattage amps are designed for how they sound cranked up in gig situations- a marshall plexi or something like that (pretty much everything without a master volume, and even some amps with them). But a lot of the more modern, higher-gain amps are also designed with lower volume tones in mind. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the SLO's main selling point, at least at the time it was released, was that you could get awesome distortion tones at any volume level. In fact it was designed to sound good at low volumes too. Granted, they (and other high gain high wattage amps) often sound better turned up, too.

the other thing is, if you "need" the tone of a bigger amp turned up, using a big amp turned down is a compromise- of course it is. But using a smaller amp turned up might be no less of a compromise, because smaller amps normally don't sound the same as a bigger amp.

it just depends on what you want.

I'd also say I love valve amps and, while I don't share walls with neighbours, my neighbours' houses are maybe 10-20ft away (if even). I agree valve amps are maybe overkill or pointless if you live in an apartment (though if you do and still like them, that's your prerogative), but I don't think you need to live in the middle of nowhere to justify a valve amp at home, either.

other than that, agreed.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at May 20, 2014,
#39
OP Dspellman"s logic is fine and accurate. dude no one is saying to buy a PA. what he is taking about is when you play out that most venues have a PA (or rent one) so you don't need a ton of stage volume. most sound guys prefer you to have a smaller setup and mike it for better overall volume and sound mix.

as for an amp get a Peavey Valveking they make a 20 watt version that you can use for recording and playing at home. I have the older 50 watt version (no usb out for recording ) that I use for practice and it's does just fine. you may want to look into a POD for recording as they make that much easier (see songs in my profile)

back in the 80s in my band days I had the 100 watt head and bottom which you had to have to be cool. it was bulky took up a lot of space and of course was heavy. my current amps are lighter and easier to just throw in the back seat of the car (my 2x12 is 70 lbs but a little cart takes care of that.)

yes I was young and didn't know much at one time either. back then (late 70s) I didn't have all the resources you do now. there are plenty of guys here that know their stuff (including those who posted on your thread). be smart and ask for advice. listen it will save you money.
#40
Thanks again to everybody for your advice. I really appreciate everybody taking their time to get back with me. Sorry if it sounded like I was getting irritated with anybody about PA systems or the like: no harsh feelings around here!

Thank you deano_l to all of your very informative input.

So now what I've learned is that: 30-watt tubes are much louder than 30-watt solid states. I probably don't need something that loud if I'm going to be playing for practice or gigging. I need to get a bigger amp with more power if I'm going to play with a drummer, which I do, so exactly how much bigger?


I'm considering these options based on those facts:
Orange Amplification - OR15H head with PPC112 cab.
Marshall Amps - DSL15H head with DSL40C cab


Anyone ever heard of Hughes and Kettner? They're on the more affordable range, they're cooler, they sound pretty darn good, and I've only ever seen people playing on an H&K with a PRS. However, affordable I know doesn't always mean quality. I want something that I can have for a long time, so is this just a brand I should skip?
Page 1 of 2