#1
Recently I ordered an original floyd rose made in germany and put it in my Dean ML Modifier.

As soon as I started adjusting the intonation I noticed that when my octave on 12th fret is good and in tune, octaves on 24th fret are really out of tune for like -22

I tried to ignore that but when I start playing arpeggios on higher frets they sound really out of tune and it sticks out.


This happens on g,b and e1 strings. Please help me!
#3
that is actually pretty normal. all you can do is try to find a middle ground. if it is sharp on the high frets then put it slightly flat on 12 and if it is flat up top put in sharp on 12. Keep in mind that sharp generally sounds better than flat.
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#4
Quote by guitar/bass95
You messed the intonation. Take it to the tech if you can't fix it yourself.


The guitar just returned from the tech...
#6
Quote by UjnaStara
The guitar just returned from the tech...


Then it might also be due to the new strings I guess, and if it is an old guitar the frets may have worn out. Or maybe your tech messed the intonation.
#7
Quote by CorduroyEW
that is actually pretty normal. all you can do is try to find a middle ground. if it is sharp on the high frets then put it slightly flat on 12 and if it is flat up top put in sharp on 12. Keep in mind that sharp generally sounds better than flat.


Is that really the only solution?
I mean, if I do that I'll mess up the intonation on the first 12 frets...
Maybe the frets are bad
#8
Quote by MegadethFan18
How old is the guitar? Fret wear can cause intonation problems.

The guitar is 1 year old and I put the frets about month ago
#9
Quote by UjnaStara
The guitar just returned from the tech...


There are "techs" and then there are GOOD techs.
Find one of the latter.
Make sure your action is low enough and that your Floyd nut is set up properly (the right distance from the first fret, for example).
#10
Quote by dspellman
There are "techs" and then there are GOOD techs.
Find one of the latter.
Make sure your action is low enough and that your Floyd nut is set up properly (the right distance from the first fret, for example).


I know that, haha
Action is low, and nut is also positioned the right way, I think.
Wouldn't it be that if the nut wasn't right the first frets would be out of tune with each other and not the high frets?

P.S. that was a question, I'm new to this stuff and maybe my logic is wrong
#11
Quote by UjnaStara
The guitar just returned from the tech...

Call the tech up and tell him/her what you noticed. If there's any possible solution, then the tech should fix it for you.
If the tech forgot the intonation, he/she should adjust that FOR FREE. (Not sure how the hell that would be missed, but whatever.)


Unfortunately though, it may end up just being "one of those things". Certain guitars/basses have minor tuning/intonation issues like that. For instance, on my Peavey bass, the 10th fret on the 3rd string buzzes a bit. On my Fender Stagemaster guitar, the B string (which is actually tuned to A, because I tune one whole step down) is off by a tiny bit (though not enough for non-musicians to notice). Those are things that can't be fixed. It's the nature of guitars and basses to have these kind of minor things, because guitars and basses are NOT perfect pitch instruments. (It could be argued perfect pitch doesn't really exist, but that's another conversation.) So, you get it as close to perfect as you can and deal with or ignore the minor things.

Edit:
You know, I've learned...over the course of 11 years of playing to actually take advantage of some of these little peculiarities on guitars and basses. For instance, I mentioned how the 10th fret, 3rd string on my bass buzzes. Well, if I want a certain quality to a bass riff, I can play that fret. It naturally emphasizes itself, because its intonation is "brighter" (it's a little sharp) than the 9th and 11th frets. So, I can use that as a "color tone". Embrace some of these "defects" on your instrument. Might as well use them to your advantage, right?
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 19, 2014,
#12
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Call the tech up and tell him/her what you noticed. If there's any possible solution, then the tech should fix it for you.
If the tech forgot the intonation, he/she should adjust that FOR FREE. (Not sure how the hell that would be missed, but whatever.)


Unfortunately though, it may end up just being "one of those things". Certain guitars/basses have minor tuning/intonation issues like that. For instance, on my Peavey bass, the 10th fret on the 3rd string buzzes a bit. On my Fender Stagemaster guitar, the B string (which is actually tuned to A, because I tune one whole step down) is off by a tiny bit (though not enough for non-musicians to notice). Those are things that can't be fixed. It's the nature of guitars and basses to have these kind of minor things, because guitars and basses are NOT perfect pitch instruments. (It could be argued perfect pitch doesn't really exist, but that's another conversation.) So, you get it as close to perfect as you can and deal with or ignore the minor things.

Edit:
You know, I've learned...over the course of 11 years of playing to actually take advantage of some of these little peculiarities on guitars and basses. For instance, I mentioned how the 10th fret, 3rd string on my bass buzzes. Well, if I want a certain quality to a bass riff, I can play that fret. It naturally emphasizes itself, because its intonation is "brighter" (it's a little sharp) than the 9th and 11th frets. So, I can use that as a "color tone". Embrace some of these "defects" on your instrument. Might as well use them to your advantage, right?


Well, he said that he did adjust the intonation and that it's good. I guess he just checked 0 and 12th fret.
You misunderstood me, haha
I agree with what you said, but it's not like the notes are sharp a bit, they are realy out of tune and sound awful together
I don't think that I could use that as my advantage, unless I start playing grunge
#13
Quote by UjnaStara
Well, he said that he did adjust the intonation and that it's good. I guess he just checked 0 and 12th fret.

That's typically how you do it. If you check intonation at more places than the 0 & 12th frets, then adjust accordingly...well, it throws everything else off. Open strings and the 12th frets generally catch 90% of the intonation. You can't really get higher accuracy than that, due to the nature of guitars.


You misunderstood me, haha
I agree with what you said, but it's not like the notes are sharp a bit, they are realy out of tune and sound awful together
I don't think that I could use that as my advantage, unless I start playing grunge

Wait, hold on? So, explain to me exactly what you're trying to do here. Because, typically, notes above the 12th fret don't sound good when played as diads or chords.

So...I don't know that I'm understanding you yet...
#14
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
That's typically how you do it. If you check intonation at more places than the 0 & 12th frets, then adjust accordingly...well, it throws everything else off. Open strings and the 12th frets generally catch 90% of the intonation. You can't really get higher accuracy than that, due to the nature of guitars.


Wait, hold on? So, explain to me exactly what you're trying to do here. Because, typically, notes above the 12th fret don't sound good when played as diads or chords.

So...I don't know that I'm understanding you yet...


I'm not playing chords on the high frets. When I do arpeggios, like sweep picking and stuff like that, they are out of tune
0 fret shows 00 on the tuner, 12th fret shows the same, and 24th fret shows -22
#15
Quote by UjnaStara
I'm not playing chords on the high frets. When I do arpeggios, like sweep picking and stuff like that, they are out of tune
0 fret shows 00 on the tuner, 12th fret shows the same, and 24th fret shows -22

Well, part of that may be that it's harder to get your finger in the exact spot at the 24th fret. Do the sweeps sound out of tune? Like noticeably? Or it is tolerable?


Crank the distortion and listen to what happens.
#16
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Well, part of that may be that it's harder to get your finger in the exact spot at the 24th fret. Do the sweeps sound out of tune? Like noticeably? Or it is tolerable?


Crank the distortion and listen to what happens.


It't very noticeable. I can hear it's out of tune both when I'm unplugged and with the distortion cranked. I wouldn't be desperate about it if it was something small, but this thing really points out and makes the guitar almost unplayable on the high frets
#17
Hmmm...then I would take it back and have the tech re-check the intonation. I would also have him/her check the fret height at the 20th fret and beyond.

Btw, if you have to be, almost smoose the person. Don't be obvious. But be polite and so on. Make them feel like you have confidence in their abilities to fix it (even if you don't). Guitar techs are like anyone else; they do a better job if they feel like you trust them to do a good job.
#18
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Hmmm...then I would take it back and have the tech re-check the intonation. I would also have him/her check the fret height at the 20th fret and beyond.

Btw, if you have to be, almost smoose the person. Don't be obvious. But be polite and so on. Make them feel like you have confidence in their abilities to fix it (even if you don't). Guitar techs are like anyone else; they do a better job if they feel like you trust them to do a good job.


I guess I'll do that.

I know, but the problem is that the tech who I trust because he makes his own guitars and is successful in it doesn't answer my messages...
This tech was a new guy (for me) and I really don't have any reason to believe that he can solve this problem.
I guess that the best thing I can do is wait for my tech to answer but he's not responding for more than two weeks, I really don't know what to do...
#19
I had that problem, I put new strings, made sure the FR was level, did the intonation and relief. It was still there a bit and some buzzing, added a torn bit of business card shim to angle the neck slightly for more clearance, buzz went away and 24th was perfect as was the 12th and open. Not saying this will work for you though...
#20
I hate to be that guy, but any tech who adjusts the intonation, says it is good but it is not is a shitty tech. I'll be the first to admit I hate FR set-ups when I have to do them. they typically take 3x-4x longer to get right and many do not want to take the time to do this
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#21
Quote by Robbgnarly
I hate to be that guy, but any tech who adjusts the intonation, says it is good but it is not is a shitty tech. I'll be the first to admit I hate FR set-ups when I have to do them. they typically take 3x-4x longer to get right and many do not want to take the time to do this


I completely agree with everything you said. That's why I don't want to send the guitar back to him because you never know what could happen.

Anyway, Floyd rose system really is a pain in the a**, but as hard and annoying it is to set it up, I must say that I enjoy using it and the versatility it offers.
#22
Quote by Tempoe
I had that problem, I put new strings, made sure the FR was level, did the intonation and relief. It was still there a bit and some buzzing, added a torn bit of business card shim to angle the neck slightly for more clearance, buzz went away and 24th was perfect as was the 12th and open. Not saying this will work for you though...


I hope that it's that simple. Either way, I won't touch anything because I might do something wrong.
#23
Quote by Robbgnarly
I hate to be that guy, but any tech who adjusts the intonation, says it is good but it is not is a shitty tech. I'll be the first to admit I hate FR set-ups when I have to do them. they typically take 3x-4x longer to get right and many do not want to take the time to do this

It may not be intonation though. It could be neck relief. It could fret height. It could be a shitty pack of strings.
#24
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
It may not be intonation though. It could be neck relief. It could fret height. It could be a shitty pack of strings.

If the frets are not in tune, that means the intonation is off. For what ever reason that is it is off and any decent tech would never send something like that out.
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#25
I really don't know what to do. I guess I'll just wait for my tech to answer me. He will certainly know what's going on...
#26
Quote by Robbgnarly
If the frets are not in tune, that means the intonation is off. For what ever reason that is it is off and any decent tech would never send something like that out.

Apparently, you're not understanding me. See previous post.
#27
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Apparently, you're not understanding me. See previous post.

Yes I do, your not understanding me. The intonation is off, for what ever reason that is the fact is the intonation is off
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
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#28
Quote by Robbgnarly
Yes I do, your not understanding me. The intonation is off, for what ever reason that is the fact is the intonation is off

And the intonation could be off for any of the reasons I listed in post #23. You can't just assume that adjusting intonation is going to fix the issue. You have to treat the disease, not the symptoms.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 20, 2014,
#29
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
And the intonation could be off for any of the reasons I listed in post #23. You can't just assume that adjusting intonation is going to fix the issue. You have to treat the disease, not the symptoms.

No I agree, with you 100% .

But what I was saying is that no matter the issue, the tech sent out a guitar that had intonation isssues which should have never happened

The action, relief, nut height can and will affect how the guitar intonates to varying degrees
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#30
Reading that you swapped your old bridge with an Original series Floyd Rose, did you happen to swap the locking nut also?

I ask this because I once swaped the locking nut on my guitar (Floyd Rose Special) just because I thought that the original series locking nut would be better than the special one (it being made of hardened steel, durability, etc), and found that the original series locking nut is actually Taller than the special one, this making the strings sit higher above the frets on the very first frets, and giving me the same problems as you, as soon as I adjusted the intonation so it could be set on both 12th fret harmonic and 12 fret, notes above the 12 fret would be out of intonation :/

Solution: took the Original series locking nut base (the nut itself, apart from the 3 blocks on top of it) out of the guitar and got back in the Special series one, and voila, intonated all over the guitar again

Take a look at your guitar's nut and see if it is the original series floyd rose one or the old one, you could either swap it around, or take the new one out, remove some of the wood out of the nut pocket (to level it) and reinstall the new one (i got the old one back because is easier and I didn't notice any difference in tuning stability/tone).

Hope it helps (Y)
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#31
Quote by Robbgnarly
No I agree, with you 100% .

But what I was saying is that no matter the issue, the tech sent out a guitar that had intonation isssues which should have never happened

The action, relief, nut height can and will affect how the guitar intonates to varying degrees

Fair enough. I apologize.

We were both on the same page, and I just couldn't tell.