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#1
Hello,
I need a new head for my setup to go with the Harley Benton 212 Vintage. It would be used for thrash metal, classic heavy metal and something like that, not extreme death metal. Just to make it clear. I will also use this amp with the Eventide H9 multi-effects pedal

Budget: 1200-1300 (new)

Favorite Artists: Metallica, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Megadeth, Trivium

Preferences: 3 channels, good cleans, good distortion with (not for extreme metal, but for classic heavy metal), 50W and more,

New or used: Used

Location: Border between Italy and Austria so both countries are an option

My guitar: Jackson Js23

My current amp: Fender Mustang I
#2
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 50 or 100 might be a good place to start. Voicing is close to the classic Marshall JCM800. 2 channels with two modes on each (low and high gain) so technically its 4 channels. Not too expensive in used market either. Combined with tubescreamer type pedal and you should be good to go for everything classic.

EQ is shared between channels though which may or may not be an issue.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at May 20, 2014,
#3
Are you sure you need three channels? I'd recommend a Marshall JCM, but it doesn't have three. Peavey 6505 could also be an option, it's really dark, high gain amp, maybe a bit modern sounding. Some EVH variant (5150) could fit as well.

You might want to lower your expectations a bit though, finding a moderately cheap amp head with three channels and good cleans and good distortion without buying used is a bit hopeful.
#4
what is the difference between the two amps? And what about the jvm 410H?
I found the JCM 2000 for 650 and the JCM 800 for 850
#5
Blackstar stage 100 is perfect for you.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#6
Maybe two is enough ( clean and rhythm + lead). I was looking at the 5150 III 50W but I heard that it has a big volume jump between clean and distorted. Google is telling me there also is a mod to solve that, I don't know about that
#7
Quote by Jayerrr
Maybe two is enough ( clean and rhythm + lead). I was looking at the 5150 III 50W but I heard that it has a big volume jump between clean and distorted. Google is telling me there also is a mod to solve that, I don't know about that


JCM2000 DSL should have you covered. Green channel for cleans, Red Channel in Lead1 mode for Rhythm and kick in Tubescreamer boost for leads. Lead2 mode may be overkill.

JCM800 (with a boost pedal) is the classic heavy metal amp but is a single channel only. JCM2000 DSL sounds similar but is way more versatile as you might figure. JVM is a modern Marshall amp and sounds different. I dont know anything about it but it seems to split opinions, especially amongst classic Marshall-tone crowd.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at May 20, 2014,
#8
So I could get the Blackstar stage 100 for 650€, the Marshall JVM 410H for 750€, the JCM 2000 for 750€. Maybe a jvm 410H is better for be since I love maiden's tone but I'd like to have it a bit more modern, but on the other hand I always see opinions split on this amp. Many people and bands I love use it and say it's very good, others say it's bad, so I don't know what to think and trying it out myself is not as easy, since there are no music stores near me... What do you think of the Laney Ironheart?
Last edited by Jayerrr at May 20, 2014,
#10
Okay my options are first of all the Marshall JCM TSL 2000. Are there any other amps to take in consideration? basically I need a 80's - 90's tone but more modern, avoiding the extreme metal route where there is too much gain and too many strings on guitars
Thanks for your help guys!
Last edited by Jayerrr at May 20, 2014,
#11
I watched some reviews and I am not too convinced about this amp, I don't know... I'll try to hear it in person
#12
To my knowledge TSL is NOT a same amp as the DSL. TSL was Marshall's first attempt on modern sound but it failed. DSL is the amp that was released to fix it, back to the more classic Marshall tone.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#13
Quote by adambauman31
Marshall JCM TSL is the DSL with a 3rd channel.

No it is not.

The DSL is based on the JCM800 circuit, but with some modern features, the TSL is a completely different amp.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#14
TSL is also good for 80's metal like you described. It's not the best for modern tones (as in stuff that comes out now), but under no circumstances do I think of it as a failure. Even at that, you're not really doing too much modern stuff anyway. I'd look at the 100W head so you get the benefit of separate channels.

If you want the benefit of separate EQ sections on multiple channels, I say either TSL100 or Blackstar Stage 100. If you straight up want what Maiden uses, it's the DSL100.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#15
I also really like the tone that dream theater has in "Pull me under", really good. Do you know what they used there?
#16
Quote by Jayerrr
I also really like the tone that dream theater has in "Pull me under", really good. Do you know what they used there?

Mesa Mark IV
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#17
that is way out of my budget... I don't need and want a pure 80's metal tone, I want a 80's - 90's metal tone with a modern touch on it. So that means a bit more distorted. Like Metallica in Ride the Lightning or Megadeth in Rust in Peace...
#18
TSL100. It can handle that era of thrash fine.
Charvel So-Cal (SH6TB/N, killswitch), Jackson RR5FR (TB6/Jazz, Drop C). Joyo pxl pro.
Loop1=Crybaby from hell, Boss PS-5, Seymour Duncan 805 or Green Rhino, EQD Hoof or Earthbound Audio Super Collider. Loop 1 into ISP Decimator II.
Loop 2 (FX loop)-Line6 M9, TC Spark Mini. Loop 2 into mxr 10band. All into a Peavey Triple XXX 212, Ibanez IL15.
#19
Quote by Jayerrr
that is way out of my budget... I don't need and want a pure 80's metal tone, I want a 80's - 90's metal tone with a modern touch on it. So that means a bit more distorted. Like Metallica in Ride the Lightning or Megadeth in Rust in Peace...


Are there any Mesa Dual Rectifiers (or any rectifier) around you used? One might just fall into your price range, just barely.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#20
what is the difference between the dual and the single rectifier?

btw there is a Mesa Dual Rectifier for 950€ which I could get
#21
Quote by Jayerrr
what is the difference between the dual and the single rectifier?

btw there is a Mesa Dual Rectifier for 950€ which I could get

the dual is a 100 watt head with 3 channels (the old ones only have 2) and it can run silicon rectifiers or tube rectifiers. The single recto is a 50 watt, 2 channel amp that can only run on silicon rectifiers.

They sound very similar, but they are a bit different
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#22
Metallica uses Mesa Dual Rectifiers right? It's a very famous amp, I've heard a lot of it
#23
Quote by Jayerrr

btw there is a Mesa Dual Rectifier for 950€ which I could get



Considering how ridiculously overpriced Mesa's are over here in Europe I think that is a good price. It will do everything you want. From cleans to Metallica (which used Mesa's in Ride The Lightning and Master Of Puppets btw) to brutal stuff, especially with a boost.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#24
Quote by Jayerrr
Metallica uses Mesa Dual Rectifiers right? It's a very famous amp, I've heard a lot of it

They have used them, they also used Mesa Mark IIc+ for a long time
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#25
Quote by Jayerrr
Metallica uses Mesa Dual Rectifiers right? It's a very famous amp, I've heard a lot of it


They used Mesa Mark IV and C+ to be accurate.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#26
Quote by Jayerrr
Hello,
I need a new head for my setup to go with the Harley Benton 212 Vintage. It would be used for thrash metal, classic heavy metal and something like that, not extreme death metal. Just to make it clear. I will also use this amp with the Eventide H9 multi-effects pedal

Budget: 1200-1300 (new)

Favorite Artists: Metallica, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Megadeth, Trivium

Preferences: 3 channels, good cleans, good distortion with (not for extreme metal, but for classic heavy metal), 50W and more,

New or used: Used

Location: Border between Italy and Austria so both countries are an option

My guitar: Jackson Js23

My current amp: Fender Mustang I


I would suggest Engl apms! You live here in Europe and Engls aren't very expensive here. Try the powerball II head
#28
From my understanding the II has more mids than the I (which many people complained about)
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#29
the II costs way more tough. I found the I for 700€ and the II 1100€
Last edited by Jayerrr at May 20, 2014,
#30
Quote by Jayerrr
the II costs way more tough. I found the I for 700€ and the II 1100€


Powerball is an amp for a tweaker. 4 channels and all kinds of knobs and switches to fine tune the sound. Perhaps to a point of overwhelming.
To give a better idea here is an in depth review of Powerball, if you have 25 minutes of time. As I said, it has a lot of knobs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrovg6lpujo


People do complain that Powerball I is scooped. Though if that is true or are they just comparing it to high gain Peavey amps with metric shit-ton of mids that overpower other amps in the mix, I dont know. Its still a metal monster but not exactly a one trick pony like Fireball is.

Other alternative, which may suite you better, is Engl Blackmore. Not as many knobs and channels as Powerball but voicing may suit your tastes better.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#32
Quote by Jayerrr
mhmm okay... What about randall amps? How are they?


Their tube amps, unsure though impressions seem to be quite positive on new Diavlos. Solid state amps, good metal machines and I really like mine but cleans are not that hot. Too flat and sterile.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#34
I think a DSL really would be best. Classic vibe with a modern touch? That's exactly how I'd describe it.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#35
okay then hopefully I'll try them out, so my list would be (without priority)

- Mesa Dual Rectifier

- Marshall JVM 410H, DSL, JCM 800

- Engl Powerball I and II
#36
Quote by Jayerrr
okay then hopefully I'll try them out, so my list would be (without priority)

- Mesa Dual Rectifier

- Marshall JVM 410H, DSL, JCM 800

- Engl Powerball I and II



Sounds like a plan. If you can try all of them go ahead and see what clicks. They are all quite different.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#37
Quote by Jayerrr
that is way out of my budget... I don't need and want a pure 80's metal tone, I want a 80's - 90's metal tone with a modern touch on it. So that means a bit more distorted. Like Metallica in Ride the Lightning or Megadeth in Rust in Peace...


Both albums were recorded on Marshalls mostly.

I would go with the DSL as well.
#38
Quote by tsc86
Both albums were recorded on Marshalls mostly.

I would go with the DSL as well.



To my knowledge they were Mesa Mark amps as preamp, Marshall power amp and Marshall cabinets. Kill Em All was all Marshall and Proco Rat as boost.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#39
Quote by Jayerrr
basically I need a 80's - 90's tone but more modern, avoiding the extreme metal route where there is too much gain and too many strings on guitars
Thanks for your help guys!



Well said.....I have that same interest in amps !!!!
2014 Gibson SG Special
Peavey Classic 30
Squier Standard Stratocaster HSS
Fender CD60CE
Fender v2 Mustang III
Roland Micro Cube
MXR M75
#40
Quote by DubfromGA
Well said.....I have that same interest in amps !!!!

nice and what do you recommend?
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