#1
Hello,

I wanted to ask where the difference between a Harley Benton 412 that costs 350€ and the Mesa 412 that costs 1125€? They have the same speakers... Does the wood make so much difference that it should cost 3 times as much?
Thanks
#2
variety of things

mesa is made in the USA, HB in china. much higher wages in the USA.

mesa's also a prestige brand and has, shall we say, business practises, at least in europe, to maintain that market position which i don't much like.

the mesa may well be (probably is) made better too from better plywood and other parts etc.

mesa's speakers are UK-made v30s with a slightly different spec to "regular" v30s

the mesa looks a lot cooler

probably other things i haven't thought of

Whether any or all of those things are worth a 300% premium is kind of up to you. I think most would say the HB is better value, if nothing else. It's little more (if at all) than buying four v30s at retail prices. it's not as good as the mesa but the mesa probably isn't 300% better, either.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#4
The V30's that Mesa use are not the same V30 that are used in the HB. The Mesa V30 is based on the original V30 design and is still made in the UK. The V30 that is in the HB and most other companies use is a "updated" version of the speaker and they are now made in China.

The material and construction is far superior on the mesa.

But for the price and sound quality of the HB cabs it is very hard to beat. If you want a decent cab and don't want to spend a fortune I'd get the HB cab.

I have a 2x12 Orange PPC style cab with Celestion G12h30's I bought for $265 new. Does it sound as good as a well made cab with the same speakers? NO. But it still sounds good and I'm happy to use it
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Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
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#5
^^ no problem

^ yeah pretty much. It depends on how good you need it to be, how much spare/disposable money you have, whether that money would be better spent on something else, etc. If you're earning good money from gigging the mesa may well be worth it even if it's only a bit better (and it's probably a fair bit better) for lots more money.

another option is getting something custom-built- in europe, that'll probably cost you a lot less than a mesa cab but which should still be very good quality.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#7
I guess it's like most things in life; you get what you pay for. I would presume that the Mesa gab would hold up to touring and road life better.

You can bet that when you load up the cab at point A and get to point B, the Mesa cab will be ready to go, no muss no fuss. Will the HB? Will it have begun to break up or bits come lose etc?

No way of telling, but big names and brands are usually who you turn to when you need reliability. If you will use the cab in a bedroom or rehersal room and it is treated carefully and not moved much then I guess the HB will be good enough (speakers notwithstanding), but if it will be gigged night after night on the road and you dont want to worry about the cab when you get to the venue, then I guess the Mesa is worth the extra.
#8
Zilla and Roadkill cabs seem to get lots of good reviews for custom cabs

But yeah in Europe Mesa is not a good deal, in the USA they are much more reasonable. The other guitarist in my band bought a new Mesa recto 4x12 for $598 from a store blowing out mesa.

I'd look for a used Marshall MF280/400 cab or used Orange PPC412 if I lived in Europe. Heck the MF280/400 are a amazing deal here in the US at $350ish used
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#10
With Mesa, they use better quality woods that some of the cheaper cab companies. It does make a difference. I see a lot of cabs that advertise V30 speakers, but don't sound as good as higher end cabinets.

I've been told that some companies use different baffling inside to get their acoustics. The guy who told me this let me use his Zinky 4x12. I don't know how it was designed, but it sounded great. Pricey? Yes. But it sounded great.

I think buying a high end cabinet is a great choice, more than buying a high end amp. I love Peavey amps. they make great stuff that's not too expensive. Their cabs have never impressed me though. YMMV.
#11
It's very similar to the MIM Strat vs Custom shop USA Strat. The Custom Shop is certainly better but 300% better?? Maybe not. A MIM Strat is usually a very gig worthy guitar with a little setup and TLC.

I know that Mesa Cabs are built like tanks with high quality everything and the cab is carefully tuned to eliminate weird resonances and provide smooth reliable response, night after night at rock concert volumes. This is more important to guys like John Petrucci than most of the rest of us.

Get the tools you need to get the job done.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#12
it's all about finding what you can afford that will do the job. certainly the Mesa cab is better but you may find that the other will get the job done and sound reasonably good.

would I rather have the custom shop strat mentioned and play that through say a Mesa MK5 if I could really afford it sure. will my customized MIM Strat through my Peavey Valveking get the job done and sound reasonably good, yes.
#13
Quote by deano_l
I guess it's like most things in life; you get what you pay for. I would presume that the Mesa gab would hold up to touring and road life better.

You can bet that when you load up the cab at point A and get to point B, the Mesa cab will be ready to go, no muss no fuss. Will the HB? Will it have begun to break up or bits come lose etc?

No way of telling, but big names and brands are usually who you turn to when you need reliability. If you will use the cab in a bedroom or rehersal room and it is treated carefully and not moved much then I guess the HB will be good enough (speakers notwithstanding), but if it will be gigged night after night on the road and you dont want to worry about the cab when you get to the venue, then I guess the Mesa is worth the extra.


Unfortunately, a lot of 4x12 prices are more about the branding than any differences in quality. If they've got the same speakers and are made of birch plywood, they're going to be very similar when you take off the backs. It's pretty simple carpentry, after all.

Open up the back of a Mesa cabinet and then open up the back of a Lopoline or HB (I haven't actually seen the inside of one of these) or Carvin or Avatar or Mills or whatever. Four speakers on a flat baffle with a 2x4 (or 2x2 or 4x4 or sometimes even a plank with holes in it) extending from the baffle to the back panel. That's pretty much it. There was a company who made a huge deal out of the strength of their corners; they drove a truck over one once. The corner was intact but the board on either side of the corner was trashed. Not sure what they proved, other than while your cabinet may have been destroyed, your corners will survive the zombie apocalpyse.

About the only thing you want to watch out for are the cabinets made of MDF. They're just fine for home use, but they don't like impact and they won't tolerate moisture. They're not going to be your first choice for a gigging cab.

No significant difference in reliability between the expensive spread and the cheaper plywood cabinets in my experience; I've hauled these things around the world a couple of times and (worse) took them up and down steps and hauled them in and out of vans for local gigs. Aside from tearing tolex, it's mostly whatever else they're next to that will actually sustain damage <G>.
#14
Quote by Robbgnarly
(a) Zilla and Roadkill cabs seem to get lots of good reviews for custom cabs

(b) But yeah in Europe Mesa is not a good deal, in the USA they are much more reasonable. The other guitarist in my band bought a new Mesa recto 4x12 for $598 from a store blowing out mesa.


(a) yeah. Haven't tried zilla but they get a good rep. My roadkills seem to be very good (but i haven't taxed them either with a world tour or anything like that)

(b) yeah here's it's not much less than double that. in pounds, not dollars.

Quote by deano_l
I guess it's like most things in life; you get what you pay for. I would presume that the Mesa gab would hold up to touring and road life better.


I dunno. Sometimes, sure. Not always- there are often other factors affecting price which aren't just dependent on quality. I mean, that Mesa cab goes for way, way less in the USA. if what you're saying is true, a mesa cab bought in europe should be way better than a mesa cab bought in the USA.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
^ yeah and on top of that $1.65=1GBP so the gap is even bigger
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#16
Yeah that's what i meant. The going rate (i.e. ignoring one-off good deals) on most of the big UK/European online stores for a Rectifier 4x12 seems to be more or less bang-on £1000. That's the guts of $1700.

I'm not saying the Mesa isn't better, because it is, but holy shit, that's some markup.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
I wouldn't pay that much for a Mesa cab. Personally I like the build quality of the Krank cabs, solid poplar instead of plywood.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#18
yeah me neither. At least at the moment. if i had limitless funds, maybe.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Quote by Robbgnarly
Personally I like the build quality of the Krank cabs, solid poplar instead of plywood.


That's not an advantage.
#20
Quote by dspellman
That's not an advantage.

Yes it is for what I look for in a cab.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate