#1
I`ve decided to jam along to Razor Flowers by Freak ******* but I got told that it plays in Bbm13 tuning. I have no idea how it works but obviously the lowest string is a Bb.

What is it on a 7 string?
Razor Flowers by Freak *******. Featuring Mattias Ia Eklundh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSoeI4R_XTA
Dissonance is underrated.
#3
That's a bit of a tough one...this is one way of doing it


Bb, Db, Ab, Db, G, Bb, Db

1, m3, 7, m3, 13, 1, m3


Now, that's the only voicing I can think of that won't snap your strings. I may be wrong though. That Enklund guy is a f*cking genius by the way. I just looked him up out of interest, and I mean it literally- his playing is the work of some musical genius. Wow!
#5
With the notes being Bb-G#-C#-F#-G#-C# (from bottom to top) according to Freak Guitar's website I'd just use the 2nd string note for your 7th string like in standard 7 string tuning: so G#-Bb-G#-C#-F#-G#-C#

I guess that's -3 -6 -1 -1 -1 -3 -3 semitones per string respectively, which would require a heavy 7 string set that can handle drop G# and a single lighter seventh string for your sixth string... not sure if that's practical at all but seems pretty feasible to me

EDIT: the other solutions do seem a bit more logical though, I was just trying to use the website as a source
Last edited by \m/TheWickerMan at May 25, 2014,
#6
my guess would be Bb Eb Ab Db F Bb Eb, but go crazy with whatever.

this is kind of the reason i don't like naming tunings after chords.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#8
Quote by AeolianWolf
my guess would be Bb Eb Ab Db F Bb Eb, but go crazy with whatever.

this is kind of the reason i don't like naming tunings after chords.

This is what I would also have guessed.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#9
Quote by MaggaraMarine
This is what I would also have guessed.

Why is that though? Is it just because AeolianWolf said it? I mean, that's got a 4th (11th) in it because of the Eb, and the tuning is meant to outline a Bb m13, which cannot have a 4th in it (or, more correctly, the 11th, due to the presence of the 7th) with the Ab.


OP which one makes more sense, with regards to what you're looking for?

Quote by AeolianWolf
my guess would be Bb Eb Ab Db F Bb Eb, but go crazy with whatever.

this is kind of the reason i don't like naming tunings after chords.

But it's not the right chord.
Last edited by CurlOfTheBurl at May 26, 2014,
#10
Quote by CurlOfTheBurl
Why is that though? Is it just because AeolianWolf said it? I mean, that's got a 4th (11th) in it because of the Eb, and the tuning is meant to outline a Bb m13, which cannot have a 4th in it (or, more correctly, the 11th, due to the presence of the 7th) with the Ab.


OP which one makes more sense, with regards to what you're looking for?


But it's not the right chord.

No. It's not because Aeolian Wolf said it.

I didn't notice it didn't have the 13th in it.

Also, 13th chord can have a 11th in it. You just don't usually play it but it actually is a chord tone.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at May 26, 2014,
#11
Quote by CurlOfTheBurl
Why is that though? Is it just because AeolianWolf said it? I mean, that's got a 4th (11th) in it because of the Eb, and the tuning is meant to outline a Bb m13, which cannot have a 4th in it (or, more correctly, the 11th, due to the presence of the 7th) with the Ab.

Actually, the intervals of a minor 13th chord are supposed to be: 1, b3, 5, b7, 9, 11, & 13. We often don't play the 11th or the 5th, because most of us can't stretch our fingers enough to play those. (Also, we don't have 4 hands.)

In the case of Bbm13, the chord should contain the notes Bb, Db, F, Ab, C, Eb, & G. The issue is, how do we arrange those to fit in 4ths? Because guitars are typically tuned in 4th, right? Well, we really can't. We have to leave one or 2 notes out, if we're tuning in 4ths.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 26, 2014,
#12
I would go with the Bb for the lowest and Gb for the highest. I don`t think there`s a need to go low as G#. It doesn`t seem that low.

Hell, I didn´t know that he put all the tunings on the site. The tunings are a lot weirder than I thought O.o

I`ll try and see what sounds the closest. Thanks!
Dissonance is underrated.
#13
Ah I didn't know that. Cool! Are there any more 7 string players like this guy? He's one of those megarare players who has as much creativity as actual technical ability! Nick llerandi of Ever Forthright is the only 7 string player i've seen with such a unique style. I mean, the dudes in Intervals, Periphery, Scale the Summit etc. A
are absolutely amazing musicians but they don't have an insanely 'outside' approach.


LOL at the tunings on his website, that is insanity. And here I am thinking I'm phresh for tuning in all-4ths!
#14
Quote by CurlOfTheBurl
Ah I didn't know that. Cool! Are there any more 7 string players like this guy? He's one of those megarare players who has as much creativity as actual technical ability! Nick llerandi of Ever Forthright is the only 7 string player i've seen with such a unique style. I mean, the dudes in Intervals, Periphery, Scale the Summit etc. A
are absolutely amazing musicians but they don't have an insanely 'outside' approach.


LOL at the tunings on his website, that is insanity. And here I am thinking I'm phresh for tuning in all-4ths!

Mattias isn`t really a 7 string guy. He is playing his signature Caparison Apple Horn guitars.

He recently got an 8 string with True Temperamet frets and a tremolo. I saw it in action and it is ****ing sick!
Here`s a pic: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10325153_796446407047164_1897868156450319451_n.jpg

You guys should really take a listen to some Freak ******* stuff.
Why is Kitch-en censored? O.o
Dissonance is underrated.
Last edited by Lyrax at May 27, 2014,
#15
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Actually, the intervals of a minor 13th chord are supposed to be: 1, b3, 5, b7, 9, 11, & 13. We often don't play the 11th or the 5th, because most of us can't stretch our fingers enough to play those. (Also, we don't have 4 hands.)

They are also usually left out because they may sound dissonant (unless you find a good voicing for it). A 13th chord doesn't really need anything else than root, third, seventh and 13th. But yeah, in theory a 13th chord contains all notes of a seven-note scale but you pretty much have to leave something out to make it sound good.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#16
Quote by CurlOfTheBurl
Why is that though? Is it just because AeolianWolf said it? I mean, that's got a 4th (11th) in it because of the Eb, and the tuning is meant to outline a Bb m13, which cannot have a 4th in it (or, more correctly, the 11th, due to the presence of the 7th) with the Ab.


oh, 13. i thought 11. okay, then leave the G, the F isn't necessary anyway. though it would probably screw with your neck tension a bit unless you had it specifically set up for this.

Quote by CurlOfTheBurl
But it's not the right chord.


it's still extremely imprudent (and pedantic, but that one's just an opinion) to name experimental tunings after chords, particularly extended ones like a m13. you might as well pull tunings out of whole tone and chromatic scales just for the hell of it at that point and call them the "whole-tone" and "chromatic" tunings, even though that doesn't tell the performer jack.

i reiterate -- for minimum shenanigans, Bb Eb Ab Db G Bb Eb. Bb Eb Ab C G Bb Db is another logical example that doesn't tweak with your setup excessively. but even those minor alterations mean major accommodations for the performer -- to play the same piece on two guitars with those tunings would be quite different (see above rant about not naming tunings based on chords).

i'm actually curious, OP -- from where did you hear that it was in Bbm13 tuning?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#17
Quote by MaggaraMarine
They are also usually left out because they may sound dissonant (unless you find a good voicing for it). A 13th chord doesn't really need anything else than root, third, seventh and 13th. But yeah, in theory a 13th chord contains all notes of a seven-note scale but you pretty much have to leave something out to make it sound good.

Well, yeah...that's the "musical reason". The physical reason tends to be that, on guitar...most of us only have 4 fingers and a thumb. And most of us only have 6 strings anyway.


Anyway, it doesn't matter a ton. Fact is, the "required" notes are 1, b3, b7, & 13. We can add the other notes, but finding a good voicing is sometimes a pain. 9 times out of 10, I wouldn't even bother with more than 4 "required" notes. So, yeah...

Edit:
Of course, even if we only use the notes Bb, Db, Ab, & G...how the hell do we tune a guitar to those? There's several valid options, and calling the tuning Bbm13 doesn't say much. So, yeah, I'd have to agree with AeolianWolf on this one.
It makes sense to call tunings E standard or D standard or Drop D. Everyone knows what those mean. They have become common convention. But we have too many options when we start naming tunings after chords like Bbm13 or Bbm11b5 or whatever.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at May 27, 2014,
#18
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Of course, even if we only use the notes Bb, Db, Ab, & G...how the hell do we tune a guitar to those? There's several valid options, and calling the tuning Bbm13 doesn't say much. So, yeah, I'd have to agree with AeolianWolf on this one.
It makes sense to call tunings E standard or D standard or Drop D. Everyone knows what those mean. They have become common convention. But we have too many options when we start naming tunings after chords like Bbm13 or Bbm11b5 or whatever.


like, even things like open D and open G that have come about as common convention -- also okay, because there are standardized ways of doing that. but talking about a seven-note chord tuning on a seven-string guitar...i mean, i'm obviously not the only one who sees that this has the potential to be a glaring issue.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#19
Quote by AeolianWolf
like, even things like open D and open G that have come about as common convention -- also okay, because there are standardized ways of doing that. but talking about a seven-note chord tuning on a seven-string guitar...i mean, i'm obviously not the only one who sees that this has the potential to be a glaring issue.

Bingo.
#20
Quote by AeolianWolf

i'm actually curious, OP -- from where did you hear that it was in Bbm13 tuning?


I was at a guitar show and Mattias had a clinic there. I talked to some guy and he mentioned that he used pretty weird tunings and that Razor Flowers was apparently in Bbm13.
Then some guy here posted a link to Mattias site and his tunings and there it got confirmed.
Dissonance is underrated.