#1
Recent EU elections have shown a rise in right-wing politics, with UKIP having a high turn out, similar to the Alternative fuer Deutschland Party and France's right-wing Anti-EU party.

Spain's left wing party leader has also thrown in the towel as well after having a shit amount of votes.

Is this simply due to the shit economy or we seeing the rise of people getting fed up with the European idea?

Discuss.
#2
Shit economy has first increased votes for left, then when the left failed to deal with it, the right grew. Soon people will just **** the right wing again and go back to their old standards.
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#3
Quote by Neo Evil11
Shit economy has first increased votes for left, then when the left failed to deal with it, the right grew. Soon people will just **** the right wing again and go back to their old standards.


I thought most times the right wins votes when the economy goes down. Is that not what usually happens?
#5
Probably due to the shit economy. I know lots of people who seem to think immigrants are the cause of all problems and that's why they voted UKIP.

They don't seem to realise that stopping immigrants coming into the UK isn't going to make a bunch of jobs magically appear out of thin air.
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#6
Quote by Philip_pepper
I thought most times the right wins votes when the economy goes down. Is that not what usually happens?

No, not at all. They vote right wing during good times because: "less taxes!! Smaller government!!!, then when it goes wrong they go "Stimulation packages, save me Government!!", but then the debt crisis came so people went "**** immigrants!!! Smaller government fas!!!".
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#7
I doubt it will. The benefits of being EU member states are too high even for idiots like the UKIP to ignore.
#8
well economy crashes, people blame immigrants and want to send them back to their countries...
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#9
Proper scared for the EU and the EU. If Scotland leaves the UK this summer we will be Tory until the end of time and UKIP will draw us out of Europe then we will collapse.
#11
Not quite sure why the Britains are complaining about the EU. It is not like you guys are in the Euro. Not sure what is wrong with the EU.
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#13
Germany won't ****in permit it.

Maybe a couple of the bigger nations will leave it - Marine Le Pen seems to be wanting to go in that direction, and the 5 star movement in italy will probably make that happen too if it manages to get the majority of the votes.

Though I highly doubt we'll no longer have a EU.

Aw yeah, maybe some nations will stay in the EU but get back to their old coin.
The reason why the EU was created was a supposedly economical reason - collaboration and free exchange of coal and steel.
The "big" reason why it was created though was more of a political reason, and then people decided a common coin would have brought benefit to them.

Most of the EU members accepted and the thing didn't really go that well.
I don't mean to pretend that was the only reason, but that surely was one of the causes.

When a nation is in a bad economical situation the coin looses value, and since stuff becomes cheaper to buy from outside people buy more of it.
People buying stuff mean money coming in, so the economy can get better.
Stuff will get more expensive, people will buy less of it, and the situation will get a bit worse.
Now, if a nation doesn't have interesting stuff to offer, the thing will end bad in any case, but if the nation uses the incoming money to make better stuff people will keep buying it and the economy will keep growing.

That's an oversimplification indeed, but that's about how I see it.
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#14
Quote by Neo Evil11
Not quite sure why the Britains are complaining about the EU. It is not like you guys are in the Euro. Not sure what is wrong with the EU.


I heard a lot of older people (not only in the UK) complaining about eastern Europeans.

That's what it seems to be about.

My mom jokes that she wants to go to Berlin and build the wall again, but make it twice as high this time.

I wasn't around before the Wall was there, I can't say what it was like then, but I do wonder what the world would look like if the wall was still up.

Also, the whole debate about the EU helping Europe NOT starting a war is bull. Europe is run by Americans. I find it's actually causing right-wing attitudes to grow.

Quote by Spambot_2
Germany won't ****in permit it.

Maybe a couple of the bigger nations will leave it - Marine Le Pen seems to be wanting to go in that direction, and the 5 star movement in italy will probably make that happen too if it manages to get the majority of the votes.

Though I highly doubt we'll no longer have a EU.

Aw yeah, maybe some nations will stay in the EU but get back to their old coin.
The reason why the EU was created was a supposedly economical reason - collaboration and free exchange of coal and steel.
The "big" reason why it was created though was more of a political reason, and then people decided a common coin would have brought benefit to them.

Most of the EU members accepted and the thing didn't really go that well.
I don't mean to pretend that was the only reason, but that surely was one of the causes.

When a nation is in a bad economical situation the coin looses value, and since stuff becomes cheaper to buy from outside people buy more of it.
People buying stuff mean money coming in, so the economy can get better.
Stuff will get more expensive, people will buy less of it, and the situation will get a bit worse.
Now, if a nation doesn't have interesting stuff to offer, the thing will end bad in any case, but if the nation uses the incoming money to make better stuff people will keep buying it and the economy will keep growing.

That's an oversimplification indeed, but that's about how I see it.


I'm surprised about France, to be honest. I thought they were one of the most pro-EU countries to start with.

And I'm not sure if Germany is so pro-EU as people outside of Germany think.
Last edited by Philip_pepper at May 26, 2014,
#15
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
I doubt it will. The benefits of being EU member states are too high even for idiots like the UKIP to ignore.

Have you heard anything UKIP have been saying? They'd take us out the EU in a heartbeat.
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#16
From my readings of Daily Mail comments, the British populace want to be out of the EU as well.
#17
Quote by LostLegion
From my readings of Daily Mail comments, the British populace want to be out of the EU as well.

yes we want Britain to be bak British
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#19
Quote by Random88
Have you heard anything UKIP have been saying? They'd take us out the EU in a heartbeat.


Can they actually do that though?
#20
Quote by Philip_pepper

Is this simply due to the shit economy or we seeing the rise of people getting fed up with the European idea?

Discuss.



i saw a vid of an under-cover reporter snooping around in the EU parliament building.. that alone did it. half of them lost their sense of reality.. circus flees glorifying themselves for every billion they throw at some useless project or study. politicians spending their time in their own little expo's while they should be doing something usefull for the huge salary they recieve. other half are parasites that do nothing at all they just show up at the end of the day to get their pay-check.

political results.. non-existent. bunch of compromises that don't really solve anything. complexity of everything x100.. a completely degraded continent

maybe a little because of the economy.. price of beer multiplied by 5 since this stupid eu thing so i cant even drink my financial troubles away without being reminded of those parlaimentairian ******s.

i didn't even vote because i feel they're all equally worthless. left and right.

i don't even know what i'm talking about. i'll shut up now. BURN EU. BURN.
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#21
Quote by Philip_pepper
Can they actually do that though?

Dunno about the technicalities of it, but I'm sure a country could leave the EU if it wanted to. If UKIP got elected (which won't happen), we'd be out.
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#22
Quote by Philip_pepper
Also, the whole debate about the EU helping Europe NOT starting a war is bull. Europe is run by Americans. I find it's actually causing right-wing attitudes to grow.
But is Europe run by americans?
'cause, as much as the US have a hell of a power and influence and shite, I kinda find it hard to believe they do run the european union.

I mean I'm not saying that's not true, I just find it hard to believe the situation's this radical.
Quote by Philip_pepper
I'm surprised about France, to be honest. I thought they were one of the most pro-EU countries to start with.
Well Sarkozy was a moderate right wing polititian on paper, but he didn't really act much as a right wing polititian.
Hollande is a moderate left wing politician and as far as I'm getting stuff, he didn't do any shit really worth noticing since he got in that position.

Now, Marine Le Pen is the daughter of Jean-Marine Le Pen, who's openly a nationalist and acted as a fascist.
Marine seems to have put lotsa water in her wine, but she's still a far right wing politician who's actually acting like one, and she has the vast majority of france's consensus.

Hell, last week or so she wrote an open letter to Hollande saying more or less "it's obvious we now are the major political party in France, so declare government crisis and let's go to the elections".
Quote by Philip_pepper
And I'm not sure if Germany is so pro-EU as people outside of Germany think.
I don't know shit about the opinion germans have about the EU, but I know for sure Angela Merkel pretty much runs the EU, she's the person with the most power inside the EU, and she's the one getting the most advantages out of the EU.

And that's another reason why I'm not really that convinced that US people run the EU y' know...
Quote by vince1991
i saw a vid of an under-cover reporter snooping around in the EU parliament building.. that alone did it. half of them lost their sense of reality.. circus flees glorifying themselves for every billion they throw at some useless project or study. politicians spending their time in their own little expo's while they should be doing something usefull for the huge salary they recieve. other half are parasites that do nothing at all they just show up at the end of the day to get their pay-check.ì
I want that vid.
Could you post a link or something please?

That also reminds me of a couple of situation, one here in Italy and one in Spain.
I mean, I don't care for shit if politicians steal, 'cause they probably would anyway, the problem's not that if ya ask me.
The problem is that they steal whatever they can and that's all - they don't do any ****in thing to make things better, they don't know anything to make the country's economy strong enough for things to go well even if they steal.
They just sit there, playing with their iPads and insulting each other not going anywhere.

Yeah, if the european parliament's half like italy, **** the european union.
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Last edited by Spambot_2 at May 26, 2014,
#23
Quote by vince1991
i saw a vid of an under-cover reporter snooping around in the EU parliament building.. that alone did it. half of them lost their sense of reality.. circus flees glorifying themselves for every billion they throw at some useless project or study. politicians spending their time in their own little expo's while they should be doing something usefull for the huge salary they recieve. other half are parasites that do nothing at all they just show up at the end of the day to get their pay-check.

political results.. non-existent. bunch of compromises that don't really solve anything. complexity of everything x100.. a completely degraded continent

maybe a little because of the economy.. price of beer multiplied by 5 since this stupid eu thing so i cant even drink my financial troubles away without being reminded of those parlaimentairian ******s.

i didn't even vote because i feel they're all equally worthless. left and right.

i don't even know what i'm talking about. i'll shut up now. BURN EU. BURN.


Yup, I agree. Saw that video as well. I hate politicians.

Quote by Random88
Dunno about the technicalities of it, but I'm sure a country could leave the EU if it wanted to. If UKIP got elected (which won't happen), we'd be out.


As Spambot_2 said, I don't know if Merkel would allow it.

What Cameron does is a cop-out. He makes grand speeches about how awful the EU is, then he acts like a scared kitten whenever he's in front of EU politicians. He just makes those speeches to gain confidence and votes. I can't see UKIP being any different.

Merkel would probably just pat that Nigel guy's head and tell him to go back to back to England and drink some more tea.

Quote by Spambot_2
But is Europe run by americans?
'cause, as much as the US have a hell of a power and influence and shite, I kinda find it hard to believe they do run the european union.

I mean I'm not saying that's not true, I just find it hard to believe the situation's this radical.
Well Sarkozy was a moderate right wing polititian on paper, but he didn't really act much as a right wing polititian.
Hollande is a moderate left wing politician and as far as I'm getting stuff, he didn't do any shit really worth noticing since he got in that position.

Now, Marine Le Pen is the daughter of Jean-Marine Le Pen, who's openly a nationalist and acted as a fascist.
Marine seems to have put lotsa water in her wine, but she's still a far right wing politician who's actually acting like one, and she has the vast majority of france's consensus.

Hell, last week or so she wrote an open letter to Hollande saying more or less "it's obvious we now are the major political party in France, so declare government crisis and let's go to the elections".
I don't know shit about the opinion germans have about the EU, but I know for sure Angela Merkel pretty much runs the EU, she's the person with the most power inside the EU, and she's the one getting the most advantages out of the EU.

And that's another reason why I'm not really that convinced that US people run the EU y' know...


Maybe they don't run the European Union, but the whole Ukraine/Russia problem and the NSA scandal shows that Germany won't make a big decision without consulting the US.
Last edited by Philip_pepper at May 26, 2014,
#24
Quote by Random88
Have you heard anything UKIP have been saying? They'd take us out the EU in a heartbeat.

Yeah, that's what they say.
#26
It won't happen any time soon. Europhiles still outnumber Eurosceptics in the EU Parliament and in EU countries.
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#27
It won't fold, and countries won't leave. But there will be a scaling back of the powers that the EU has over countries that go above national governments. Which I think is a good thing
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#28
Please don't **** up the EU.

I don't think anything will happen. A bunch of nationalist Eurosceptic parties won some extra seats in a massive parliament elected with extremely low turnout, and they are still heavily outnumbered by left-wing, 'Europhile', and/or centrist parties (lol run on sentence). This does reflect a greater influence of Euroscepticism, but a pro-EU sentiment is still dominant. We are seeing similar 'nationalist' surges in America (though they do not identify as 'nationalists') and these sort of movements have ups and downs. The EU is not going to dissolve because things aren't so great at the moment and people naturally turn to alternatives. I think most politicians realise the benefits of the EU anyway.

On another note, I find this attitude that the EU is a 'failed experiment' because there is/was (depending on the country) a recession to be misguided. Some countries are doing quite well in the EU. Let's not lose faith in the EU over a deep, though still temporary, recession that has affected most of the world, and would still exist in some form if the EU did not exist.

The whole thing where people hate the EU because of immigration is just dumb in my mind and I hope UKIP/National Front/etc. will just **** off over that. I am not convinced by most anti-immigration arguments in the EU or the US (I can understand some concerns in small, very densely populated places like Singapore), and hopefully people will get over it so this surge of xenophobia will subside back down to 'normal' levels.

I can foresee some reform in the EU regarding national sovereignty, as others stated. Whether or not this is a good thing depends on exactly how it's done. I agree that the EU political system is in need of some reform and greater transparency. I hope that 'sovereignty' does not mean reestablishing stricter borders or anything of that sort since free movement and open borders is IMO one of the greatest accomplishments of the EU. /Yank opinion so it doesn't matter.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at May 26, 2014,
#29
Quote by Neo Evil11
Not quite sure why the Britains are complaining about the EU. It is not like you guys are in the Euro. Not sure what is wrong with the EU.

The main problem people have is the loss of sovereignty. Even though we still have control over our own currency, any legislation passed by the EU has to be incorporated by Britain even if no one wants the legislation in Britain: for example, the measurements act that made it illegal for market traders to trade in imperial measurements. The loss of sovereignty includes the loss of power to control our own borders which has been picked up on by UKIP as it taps into the public consciousness.

I think a secondary problem for British voters is the lack of democracy and transparency in the European Union. The parts of the European Union's legislative body that hold the most powers are the unelected ones, and the EU Parliament itself lacks any power to propose or reject legislation, unlike the Houses of Parliament in Britain.
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#30
Quote by Philip_pepper

And I'm not sure if Germany is so pro-EU as people outside of Germany think.


germany is in a position where they can't question the EU because of old guilt. they won't abandon Germany until it's a shipwreck and everyone else has left.

Which makes me somewhat calm as I trust in Germany more than any other country in the EU/Europe atm including Sweden.

Also, the parties voted into the Parliamant can't do shit about their country being in the EU IN the Parliament. That's something they'll have to stir up in the domestic parliament and not in EU.
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Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at May 26, 2014,
#31
Meh it's just the usual driving force in all politics: find someone to blame.

People aren't happy with how things are going (the economy being the big one people are upset about, though I think that's partly just because people are still stuck in a recession mindset; I'm not sure the economy is actually doing particularly badly at the moment) and want to blame someone for it. Usually it's just parties blaming each other which is why we've always had this constant swing between Labour and Conservative, but now people have latched onto immigrants as their new target.

I think the current anti-foreign trend will pass in time once something else catches the public's imagination, just like all the other scape goats have.
#32
Yes this is the end of the EU. It was a joke to think you could get along in the first place. I'm at least glad I'm already separated from you guys by miles of ocean for when shit hits the fan.
#33
I'd imagine that just as much anti-foreign stuff could be passed of as the different countries being tired of each other as it is a joint attack on the "brown scary people stealing our jerbs".
Switzerland wanted to abolish immigrants altogether, including europeans. So I guess people are just blaming everyone not from their own country for the state that the EU is in atm.

Germans being tired of greeks
Greeks hating everyone else in the EU
Hungarians always hating jews and gypsies for some reason
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#34
Quote by Philip_pepper


And I'm not sure if Germany is so pro-EU as people outside of Germany think.

they've dumped a whole lot of money in a whole bunch of basket cases that are better served being nuclear waste disposals

they aren't pro-eu maybe, but they sure as hell aren't going to let it dissolve without getting their dues
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#35
Well without the EU Germany doesn't have its easy export markets so I'm sure they don't want it to collapse too soon.


Also, no. there's far too much invested in the EU for states to allow it to collapse. For it to dissolve would be a properly monumental thing - like, even the prospect of Grexit was treated as a kind of apocalyptic scenario. maybe the dickheads in no.10 will let us drift out of the EU, but the EU might be better off without England. They could just let Scotland back in.
#36
Quote by Spambot_2
and she has the vast majority of france's consensus.

Hell, last week or so she wrote an open letter to Hollande saying more or less "it's obvious we now are the major political party in France, so declare government crisis and let's go to the elections".


Just saw this, and I'm not convinced that the National Front is anywhere near the majority consensus of France. Her letter is the equivalent of Farage saying 'hello Westminster!' when everyone knows UKIP will likely earn a few seats, but will still be nothing compared to the major parties. The National Front has gained influence but this apathy-ridden election does not reflect their true influence. Look how little tangible power they have in French domestic politics. They've gained some regional power, and will likely gain some national seats, but will be a minor force. All they've really done is helped to give nationalism more attention.

I also don't understand Americans like Watergod who exaggerate the EU crisis and basically want the EU to fail for some reason. I hear that sentiment quite a bit in real life.