#1
I've played a Traynor YCS50 50-watt 1x12 combo amp, & it has the most bass of any tube 1x12 guitar combo I can find (i'm looking for a lot of bass). It's a high quality amp fitted with a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker.

But in a store I compared this amp side-by-side with a Traynor YCS90 , a 90-watt 2x12 version (the only differences I can see in the 2 amps), loaded with two Celestion G12 Century Vintage speakers, & the 50-watt version had considerably more low-end & was far less "fizzy" than the 90-watt combo using the same guitar etc. Both amps have the same number/types of pre-amp tubes (three 12AX7's) & the same type of power amp tubes (5881), though the 90-watt has 2 more of these power tubes.

The store clerk agreed the 50-watt had more bass, but said this could be because it's in a smaller cab enclosure than a 2x12.

So just wondering if the Celestion V30 speakers are known to have really fat/loud bottom end? The 50-watt Traynor amp has vastly more low-end than a stock Peavey Valveking combo (and my Vypyr Tube 60 1x12), so would I be able to get similar deep low-end in the Valveking (or Vypyr Tube 60) if I replaced the stock Peavey speakers with V30's?
Last edited by Barricade_28 at May 26, 2014,
#2
No the V30 is known for its tight bass and prominent mid-highs.
The Celestion K-100, CL-80 have more bass
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#4
V30's are more known for a mids spike
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#5
Speaker with bass? Celestion Seventy80
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#6
For the lowest guitar octave (80-160hz), cabinet tuning and design is usually more important than speaker variances among common guitar speakers.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#7
Quote by Cajundaddy
For the lowest guitar octave (80-160hz), cabinet tuning and design is usually more important than speaker variances among common guitar speakers.


Really? That's very interesting.
#8
Quote by monwobobbo
the VK has an open back so bass really isn't going to be it's thing.


Is there a way to close the back to increase the bass of an open-back combo like the Vypyr Tube 60 or Valveking 112 without permanently altering/damaging the original cabinet (ie: not putting screw hole into the wood etc.)
#9
Push it up against a wall?
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#10
Quote by Barricade_28
Is there a way to close the back to increase the bass of an open-back combo like the Vypyr Tube 60 or Valveking 112 without permanently altering/damaging the original cabinet (ie: not putting screw hole into the wood etc.)

You can put a mostly closed back panel on it. You'll want to leave a small gap at the top (*or bottom) so some air can cool the amp off. You will get much better bass response.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#11
Quote by Barricade_28
Really? That's very interesting.

More on this:
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/cabinets_for_guitars.html

Cabinet design determines how a speaker will sound below about 250hz. A well designed closed-back cab will have tight, punchy, deep bass with no standing waves or nodes interfering with speaker response. A well designed open-back cab will be more efficient (more actual bass energy), and smooth but somewhat less defined than a closed back. Other things like placing the cab on the floor or in a corner can increase bass energy by as much as 3 db due to boundary coupling.

Poorly designed cabs can result in really weak bass due to wave cancellation or annoying resonant frequencies that are not smooth or musical.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at May 26, 2014,
#12
k100's. yummy.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#13
Quote by Barricade_28
Is there a way to close the back to increase the bass of an open-back combo like the Vypyr Tube 60 or Valveking 112 without permanently altering/damaging the original cabinet (ie: not putting screw hole into the wood etc.)


No.

Cajundaddy has it right -- a lot of speaker tuning has to do with the cabinet design. Even more succinctly, it's a question of designing a cabinet based on the specific parameters of one speaker. Most guitar cabinets were never designed for a specific speaker, so you get legions of people who try random speakers in random internal patterns until they either find something they like or run out of money.

Bass response in particular requires both a speaker capable of producing bottom end and a cabinet that will support it -- literally -- in that a cushion of air will prevent the voice coil from extending beyond its limits.
#14
Not much guitar speakers are really made to reproduce a lot of bass.

You either get some really strange and uncommon speaker, or you get a bass reflex cabinet or something similar - you may keep it simple and get whatever cab goes lower in frequency response, but that won't give you that much more bass.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#15
Quote by Robbgnarly
No the V30 is known for its tight bass and prominent mid-highs.


+1

I haven't tried those neodymium ones but i think they have a rep of being a bit tinny. they might have even less bass than a v30, in other words. but i still wouldn't say a v30 is bass-heavy. if that makes sense.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
In all seriouness, why are you wanting "deep bass" from a guitar amp in the first place? You will be buried in the mix of a band setting if your amp is booming alongside a bassist.
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#17
If I may, I'd recommend a 5150 III or an Orange Rockerverb with an Orange Cabinet. I will say however I think Veteran 30's sound heavier than Vintage 30's, so I'd recommend an unloaded cab (Port City if you have the money) and putting Vets in it.

I'd also like to mention I've heard great things about the Celestion G12K speaker, so it may be worth investigating.
Last edited by gibson52198 at May 27, 2014,
#18
Quote by Flux'D
In all seriouness, why are you wanting "deep bass" from a guitar amp in the first place? You will be buried in the mix of a band setting if your amp is booming alongside a bassist.


True, but I like a lot of bottom end when playing by myself or with a drummer and no bassist.
#19
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#20
No specific speaker is going to replace having a bassist present. As annoying as I find the bassist in my band to be, he's an important part of the band's sound. The one or two practices he couldn't make there was a very obvious void of low end that even a Mesa Roadster and Recto couldn't make up for.
#21
Quote by Dave_Mc
+1

I haven't tried those neodymium ones but i think they have a rep of being a bit tinny. they might have even less bass than a v30, in other words. but i still wouldn't say a v30 is bass-heavy. if that makes sense.


Neodymium has nothing to do with whether a speaker is tinny or bass heavy. Yet another bit of Elven Mythology and Guitar Player Unicorn Poop.

I'm using speaker cabinets that utilize 15" Eminence Kappalite 3015 LF drivers and 18Sound 6" mids drivers, both of which utilize neodymium magnets, and 1" tweeter (google fEARful 15/6/1 for more information). The cabinets are capable of handling a 5-string bass at the bottom end with absolute clarity and up to 900W of power, and they'll handle 18Khz at the top end. Better yet, they'll weigh a bit over 40 and under 50 lbs (depending on materials used in the build) and will reproduce whatever you put into them with clarity and without undue "baked in" sound bias. You can use them for bass, keys, modeled guitar and even PA-- they're that wide ranging and clear. What you *can* say about neodymium speakers is that they're light and generally more expensive (due to political mish-mosh, neodymium prices have bounced around quite a bit).



The fEARful 15/6/1 is on the right. The smaller speaker cabinet is a fEARful 12" sub (no mids, no highs) for comparison. The 15/6/1 is approximately 20.5"Wx30.5"Hx16.0"D
Last edited by dspellman at May 28, 2014,
#22
I meant that specific speaker, not necessarily neodymium in general. Sorry for the ambiguity I don't think I've even tried any neodymium speakers
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
I meant that specific speaker, not necessarily neodymium in general. Sorry for the ambiguity I don't think I've even tried any neodymium speakers


You may have played through some if you've been working a show where they have one of the better quality flying vertical arrays.

#24
Nope. I don't gig
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Quote by Guitarmiester
No specific speaker is going to replace having a bassist present. As annoying as I find the bassist in my band to be, he's an important part of the band's sound. The one or two practices he couldn't make there was a very obvious void of low end that even a Mesa Roadster and Recto couldn't make up for.


Yes of course. I'm not trying to completely replace the need for a bassist with my guitar, which would be ridiculous. I'm just trying to get some decent bass punch when a bassist isn't around to full out the sound.