#1
So I went to Sam Ash today and goofed around on some potential new guitars and amps. When I got home and plugged into my current setup(PRS SE custom 24 with a Krank Chadwick 2x12 combo) I was like, wow my tone sounds like ass. I had gotten used to the deteriorating tone over the months by not hearing some amps with fresh tubes in them.(no its not the pickups) The tubes are likely quite old, I got the amp used last september/october and haven't changed them. It currently has 2 5881's and 3 12AX7's in it, all Sovtek. I would like to replace all of them and am wondering whether or not I need to rebias the amp (whatever that means)...

My buddy has had some Sovteks for years and he might give some (years old but not used). Would this be a suitable replacement? Or should I go with something else? I'm looking for a hard rock/metal tone. I am willing to shell out the cash for some good tubes if that would make a difference.

What do you guys recommend I do?
Thanks!
#2
Sovtek are shite. Get yourself some JJ's.
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#3
Quote by Cathbard
Sovtek are shite. Get yourself some JJ's.

+1

(At least assuming my experience with EL84s is relevant.)
Quote by Cathbard
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Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#4
Just so you know, new tubes aren't going to make your amp sound like a completely different amp, if the part about you trying out new amps at the store is relevant to the tube question.

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#5
Quote by jthm_guitarist
Just so you know, new tubes aren't going to make your amp sound like a completely different amp, if the part about you trying out new amps at the store is relevant to the tube question.


True enough but my tone was complete crap, I really don't know how I haven't noticed after all this time... Still, I'm sure it would sound much better with fresh tubes in it.

So I guess I'll get a matched pair of JJ 6l6GC's and 3 JJ 12ax7's if thats the consensus around here.
#6
Try one of the long plate JJs in V1. They're very musical or something.
"If you're looking for me,
you better check under the sea,
because that's where you'll find me..."
#7
If your tubes are worn out, new tubes will make it sound like a new amp. We've all been there. How many times have we seen it in here when people think they need a new amp but we convince them to replace their tubes and they come back saying that they forgot how good their amp used to sound?
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#8
Because the Chadwick is a Marshall-ish amp, get a New Mullard 12ax7 for V1 and JJ Ecc83 for the rest. I run the new Mullard in V1 of my Marshall and my Krank 1980 Jr (the follow up to the chadwick) and they sound good.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
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#10
Quote by DeathByDestroyr
Try one of the long plate JJs in V1. They're very musical or something.
Not in a combo. He's pretty much stuck with ECC83S tubes in JJ's.


You can try other things in V1 but I think the JJ's work really well in there too. They're ballsier than the Mullard RI. But grab one and try it. Buy a few different ones and try them in V1 and see what you think. Ideally, I'd put a British Mullard in V1 but that's getting a bit pricey these days. Amperex/Bugle Boys are awesome in Marshalls too. The clarity of a Telefunken and the warmth of a British tube ....... well, almost. Again, very pricey.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at May 28, 2014,
#11
Is your name Jacob and did you have a Dream Theater shirt on? If so, I was the guy who talked your ear off and taught you about rhythm for 2 hours
Gear:
1987 Charvel Model II
2010 Carvin ST300C
1990 Charvette 100
1991 Ibanez RG560M
2006 Fender Mexi Strat
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Ovation CP 247 Acoustic
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Tutorial: Studio Quality Programmed Drum Sounds
#12
Quote by RBM01991
Is your name Jacob and did you have a Dream Theater shirt on? If so, I was the guy who talked your ear off and taught you about rhythm for 2 hours

No way!!! lol is that ever cool, thanks again for the free lesson!



So some of you are suggesting a mullard for the premap tube all the way of the left, right? I'm not getting a genuine mullard though, thats just too much money for a tube...
Are the reissues any good in comparison with the JJ 12AX7's? I'll probably just stick with the JJ's though, they seem to be very nice.

Cathbard, where you referring to tube size when you said I was stuck with ECC83's? Longways, that shouldn't be an issue, I got about 7 inches to work with, and maybe another inch side to side.

I'm still a little foggy on the power tubes, a 6l6 and a EL34 will fit in a 5881 slot, right?
#13
I was talking about the reissue Mullard 12ax7

There are 4 12ax7's in your amp. 3 in the front and one under the metal cap which I'm pretty sure is the Phase inverter (it might be tube driven FX loop but I'm not sure). The V1 position is typically the closest 12ax7 to the input of the amp.

Your amp can only run 6L6/5881 type tubes

I think Cathbard was talking about the JJEcc803, it is a long-plate 12ax7 and they do not fair too well in combo amps because of the extreme vibrations. But the Chadwick is a separate cab compartment from the part where the amp actually is, so your probably fine
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at May 28, 2014,
#14
Quote by JGM258
No way!!! lol is that ever cool, thanks again for the free lesson!

So some of you are suggesting a mullard for the premap tube all the way of the left, right? I'm not getting a genuine mullard though, thats just too much money for a tube...
Are the reissues any good in comparison with the JJ 12AX7's? I'll probably just stick with the JJ's though, they seem to be very nice.

Cathbard, where you referring to tube size when you said I was stuck with ECC83's? Longways, that shouldn't be an issue, I got about 7 inches to work with, and maybe another inch side to side.

I'm still a little foggy on the power tubes, a 6l6 and a EL34 will fit in a 5881 slot, right?


Small ****in' world eh? Youre welcome man any time lol. Now as far as the power tubes, I'd get a higher quality 5881 or a JJ 6L6GC, which will fit in the same socket, you only have 2, so it wouldn't be horrifically expensive. but you have 4 preamp tubes which are 12AX7's, to improve cleans I'd spend some money on a Jan Phillips 5751 which is essentially just a variant of a 12AX7 on the V1 position and then for the rest, JJ's 12AX7's and call it a day. That's what I've been told to do for my 6505 to improve the cleans and what not and still maintain the balls that the amp has.
Gear:
1987 Charvel Model II
2010 Carvin ST300C
1990 Charvette 100
1991 Ibanez RG560M
2006 Fender Mexi Strat
Jackson/Charvel Star W/ Custom Graphics.
Ovation CP 247 Acoustic
Line 6 POD HD Pro X
Pro Tools 9

Tutorial: Studio Quality Programmed Drum Sounds
Last edited by RBM01991 at May 28, 2014,
#15
^ the Krank Chadwick is not a super hi-gain amp, it is more like a hotrod-plexi/JCM800 with a great clean channel. no real need to put a lower gain tube in V1
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#16
Quote by Robbgnarly
^ the Krank Chadwick is not a super hi-gain amp, it is more like a hotrod-plexi/JCM800 with a great clean channel. no real need to put a lower gain tube in V1


Oh ok, so then JJ's 12AX7's
Gear:
1987 Charvel Model II
2010 Carvin ST300C
1990 Charvette 100
1991 Ibanez RG560M
2006 Fender Mexi Strat
Jackson/Charvel Star W/ Custom Graphics.
Ovation CP 247 Acoustic
Line 6 POD HD Pro X
Pro Tools 9

Tutorial: Studio Quality Programmed Drum Sounds
#17
Oh the JAN 5751 is a great tube and if TS finds the Chadwick fizzy with a lot of gain, it could deff help it out.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#18
Quote by Robbgnarly
Oh the JAN 5751 is a great tube and if TS finds the Chadwick fizzy with a lot of gain, it could deff help it out.


I just pulled all the tubes out and the preamps were all Ruby Ax7's, is this what Krank originally put in their amps or were these maybe replaced sometime?

I will try that out or the mullard if I find the JJ's unsatisfactory, but I can get a quad of 12ac7's for the cost of one JAN 5751 so I will go with the cheaper option first. I can get a whole set of JJ's (6l6GC power and Ecc83 preamp tubes) for $80, I will just go through with that unless anyone has any objections.

I won't have to worry about bias-ing, right?
Last edited by JGM258 at May 28, 2014,
#19
Quote by JGM258
I just pulled all the tubes out and the preamps were all Ruby Ax7's, is this what Krank originally put in their amps or were these maybe replaced sometime?

I will try that out or the mullard if I find the JJ's unsatisfactory, but I can get a quad of 12ac7's for the cost of one JAN 5751 so I will go with the cheaper option first. I can get a whole set of JJ's (6l6GC power and Ecc83 preamp tubes) for $80, I will just go through with that unless anyone has any objections.

I won't have to worry about bias-ing, right?

The amp will need to be biased to get the optimal sound out of the power tubes. It is really easy to do. I highly suggest you get a bias probe and a digital multi-meter this makes it very easy to do yourself
eurotubes.com has sets of tubes for the Krank Chadwick www.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=99&sub_category_id=100
they also sell bias probes (I have one) and have videos on how to bias

I think Krank ued EHX 12ax7's and Sovtek 5881/6l6
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at May 28, 2014,
#20
Well it looks stupid easy to bias, but I'm not up for the potential death factor lol. I'll waste $40 or whatever and have someone else do it.
#21
Quote by JGM258
Well it looks stupid easy to bias, but I'm not up for the potential death factor lol. I'll waste $40 or whatever and have someone else do it.

Yes there is a chance of shock. but you are not digging into the amp. There is a small bias pot you turn with a screwdriver.

It's your call, but if you plan on playing guitar for a while it is 100% worth learning to do. And buying a bias probe is less than having someone else do it.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#22
Rob is right. I was talking about the ECC803 being unsuitable. They are prone to microphonics in combos but if the tubes aren't actually inside the speaker compartment you'd likely get away with it. They are a low noise tube with a bit more top end than the ECC83S. I use them in V1 all the time.

V1 will be the tube closest to the input jack. Well, that's where it is on most amps.

Ruby are a rebranding outfit. They could be anything. You have to read the entire code on the tube and decipher it to know what they actually are.

If the bias adjuster is on the outside you aren't going to electrocute yourself. Get a bias probe and learn how to do it. You'll be better off in the long run.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
Well I changed my mind. I'll bias the amp myself. I bought JJ 12ax7's and JJ 6L6's.
I would like a recommendation on a tube probe and insulated gloves if you guys have any.
#24
Quote by JGM258
Well I changed my mind. I'll bias the amp myself. I bought JJ 12ax7's and JJ 6L6's.
I would like a recommendation on a tube probe and insulated gloves if you guys have any.

The eurotubes bias probe is nice and cheap (and pre made)

Weber and several other company's make a bias probe about the same price, but you must build it with the enclosed instructions

I own a eurotubes bias probe and it has more than paid for itself for me.

Contact the amp company to see what they rcomend as the Bias mA reading. I always go higher because I like it that way (personal preference)
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at May 30, 2014,
#25
I got a probe but I put in the JJs and loved the tone for about 2 minutes and all the sudden my tone and volume dropped significantly and stayed that way for the next 10 minutes...
What happened and what do I do?
#26
Quote by JGM258
I got a probe but I put in the JJs and loved the tone for about 2 minutes and all the sudden my tone and volume dropped significantly and stayed that way for the next 10 minutes...
What happened and what do I do?

did you have the bias probe connected? I hope not

Did the volume return to normal?
you can try spraying the tube pins with Deoxit and putting them in and out a few times.

Above that, your gonna need a tech to check your amp out
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#27
Quote by Robbgnarly
did you have the bias probe connected? I hope not

Did the volume return to normal?
you can try spraying the tube pins with Deoxit and putting them in and out a few times.

Above that, your gonna need a tech to check your amp out

The probe was not in. the volume did not return to norm al. i doubt deoxit will fix that... any ideas based on this info?
#28
Quote by JGM258
The probe was not in. the volume did not return to norm al. i doubt deoxit will fix that... any ideas based on this info?

It may have a capacitor going/gone bad.

Try the other tubes again and see if the volume issue goes away.
Just because a tube is new doesn't mean it cant have a flaw from the beginning

If that doesn't work, take it to a tech
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#29
Quote by Robbgnarly
It may have a capacitor going/gone bad.

Try the other tubes again and see if the volume issue goes away.
Just because a tube is new doesn't mean it cant have a flaw from the beginning

If that doesn't work, take it to a tech

I tried it again with the JJ's and my volume was fluctuating alot, I then threw in the sovtek power tubes and the same thing was happening. I'm pretty sure the problem doesn't lie in the tubes, its likely a problem with the internals....
Last edited by JGM258 at Jun 6, 2014,
#30
Clean the sockets before you do anything to radical. It doesn't take long and a can of Deoxit is cheap. You'd be amazed how many times simply cleaning things will make faults go away. It's the dirty little tech secret. You clean it and then tell the customer, "it needed a new flux capacitor. That will be $150."
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#31
Quote by Cathbard
Clean the sockets before you do anything to radical. It doesn't take long and a can of Deoxit is cheap. You'd be amazed how many times simply cleaning things will make faults go away. It's the dirty little tech secret. You clean it and then tell the customer, "it needed a new flux capacitor. That will be $150."

Contact cleaner did not work, after applying I played it the next day and my tone stopped fluctuating, it just flatlined to a extremely dull and very quiet tone. I leave for a trip to Europe very soon and afterwards I will make a keep or sell thread... So much for my $1500 guitar budget...