#1
Hi, I am a UG newbie, so I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong place. Please correct me if I did.

I have a semi-urgent question. My band has a 16-channel Peavey Unity unpowered mixer. We need most of the sixteen channels. We have a QSC 5050 amplifier to power our stage speakers. We also have a couple unpowered Seismic Audio 15" 250RMS wedge monitors, but no second amp to drive them. We do have an 8-channel power mixer (I forget the brand/model); can we use that to power the monitors? If so, how? (Which output from the unpowered mixer into which input of the power mixer, and which output from the power mixer to the monitors?)

If this isn't a viable option, what inexpensive decent amp should I get? Money is tight, so I am hoping not to go this route unless there is absolutely no way to make the above solution work.

I appreciate any help!
#2
Sure. Line out from the main board to line input on the powered mixer. Adjust gain to taste.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#3
Wow, thanks for the quick reply. O.K. I am really showing my inexperience, but I don't see line outs. I do see 2 outputs (which are already being used for the stage speaker amps), 2 aux effect outs (A and B), and 2 monitor outs (A and B). I am guessing to use the monitor out A; can you confirm? Thanks!
#4
^^^ You want to use the aux out ideally so that you can have a separate foldback mix.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#5
I don't know your board but it looks like you have 2 monitor submix sends. Use A and adjust your mix with "mon A" on each input channel you are using. Personally I don't like sending everything to the monitors. All vocals for sure, lead instruments depending on your needs. I would use "Aux effect out" for outboard effects like delay and reverb.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#6
Thank you both so much for your suggestions! I look forward to trying them out when I get into the studio on Monday.
#7
^^^ Quick question - is this for practice or for a gig? If it's for practice you don't need a foldback mix. I doubt you'd need to use 16 channels for practice either.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#9
Ok, well you'll definitely need a decent PA then. Do you have any friends/friends of parents who can possibly help you do sound for the gig? Playing outdoors comes with its own issues on top of the average gig when it comes to live sound.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#10
150 person outdoor gig and no one really understands how to use the sound system? Get a sound guy who does or just K.I.S.S. and mic vocals only. Trying to mix a full band without a skilled sound tech with a good background in live sound is asking for bad things to happen.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jun 1, 2014,
#11
Oh, we are not so serious. We're a teacher band playing at our annual school BBQ. How much do sound guys cost? IDK if we've got that kind of money. But we've got enthusiastic fans! .
#12
@Alan: Do you think our PA is okay? (I mentioned some of our equipment in the first post--it's stuff we borrow from our keyboardist's other band--I can check what speakers we have tomorrow.). Oh, I do have a former student to do our mixing. Yes, we are strictly amateurs, but we get better each show, and we are learning a lot!
#13
I wouldn't know whether your PA is ok. The amp is nice. What are you opting to use most of the 16 channels on?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#14
Six singers, 2 keyboards, 1guitar amp, 1 bongos, 2 for drumkit. 1 cello, 1 ipod
#15
I play bass (and cello), but I wasn't thinking to connect it as my 500 watts 2x10 bass amp/speaker setup should be sufficient, I hope.
#17
So basically you want to mic everything, except the bass amp, which is going to be really loud on stage.

How many songs are you going to play? It sounds like an awful lot of time/effort to have all of those things going through the PA for a couple of songs. As you are inexperienced I guess it would take you around 2 hours to set up and have everything ready for the gig.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#18
We have about 15 songs, so yes it's quite a production. 2 hours for setup sounds about right, although I do at least have everything setup in our practice space 50 ft. away the same as how we will perform.
#19
If I can figure out how to do so, I'll post my stage plot and see what you all think. I appreciate all the feedback.
#20
I'm not really worried about a stage plot. My concern is that you're just learning about foldbacks, and are intending to put on a "production" outdoors. It doesn't look good. Is there no sound guy at your school?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#21
Yeah, I share your concern. I was pushing to move the show inside, but got over-ruled as the event IS a school barbecue. It's an annual tradition, with my staff band increasingly providing more of the entertainment. The sound has traditionally sucked, in my opinion; my goal this year is to at least get us up to minimally acceptable.

We are a publicly funded charter school, so no sound guy. At least this year I have someone who is familiar with the board who will doing the mixing.
#24
good luck, this is exactly how I started out. You need a dress rehearsal with the PA set up exactly as you will use it and though for a rock concert there is a problem playing outside and keeping the volume up I suggest you don't worry about it for this event. I wouldn't mic' the drums at all, it makes things much more complex and hence the sound worse if you lack experience. then if you balance the bass to the drums and work from there with the rest of the mix, don't worry there will still be plenty of headaches for you to sort out.

In fact I'd keep it really simple and only put vocals through the Monitors and probably keep the guitar out of the mix too. Are you going to mic six voices separately? If they are doing backing vocals I'd consider grouping the singers around one or two mic's as a possibility, balancing six voices is hard as some people will sing louder once the adrenaline starts pumping and others quieter.

there's some advice in my sticky above in this forum, any extra questions after reading this and feel free to fire away.
#25
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. One thing that I smartly did was set up the practice space exactly like the outside stage, including with the P.A. I know the sound will be different outdoors, but at least we have our familiar with the setup.

The lead guitarist has his own amp that won't be plugged in. I am a little concerned about that because his solos tend to be too quiet or loud.

We will mic with shure57 the 30 watt amp of the rhythm guitarist.

I like the idea of grouping, esp for the backup singers, and will implement that tomorrow in our dress rehearsal.

Interesting your thought about not using mice for drums. I was under the impression that I had to for an outdoor show. It'd definitely been easier not to worry about it!
#26
I'm working on the principle of it being better to sound good and be a bit quiet than loud with a load of problems.


There are only two differences with outside. The sound is radiated 360 instead of 180 so is half the volume. There may be more environmental noise to compete with as well. Bass is particularly attenuated as it is radiated omnidirectionally. Guitar amps and vocals from the PA are relatively unaffected as highs and mids are just radiated forwards anyway. the other problem happens if it is windy, which plays havoc with the mic's. Might be worth looking at a pack of the foam windshields to help with that.


The other experience I'd share is that moving from being a sound engineer to playing I've realised that once the music starts it takes 100% concentration. You really don't want to be fiddling with the PA or you end up playing badly. Another reason to keep it simple. The problems increase with the square of the number of components in the system so an extra three mics can make the whole thing twice as difficult to manage.
Last edited by Phil Starr at Jun 6, 2014,