#1
Hey guys,

The bassist from my band is looking to upgrade to some better, louder amp. And I have a question which I can't seem to find an answer to.

For lower tunings in metal;
(I'm talking about tunings at the range between drop C to drop A (eventual G# maybe)
(My band plays drop B but it's obviously better if an amp can handle a bit lower without losing clarity as we could go lower in the future)
What size of the speaker would be enough to handle them kind of frequencies well? My mate has been looking at some amps and for one of the amps he has a choice of either
- a 2x10 which would not be too muddy and it would let him have a better tone I guess..
- or a 1x15 which would obviously go lower if we needed it to.

But the question is is a 10 inch big enough to bring out them frequencies? What about a 12 inch? Or would you guys recommend that for that kind of tuning something around that 1x15 would be a safe choice?

Keep in mind we are going for clarity and loudness as a priority.

Thanks for the answers!

PS: Been looking at some Eden amps as well as Ashdown, some Gallien Krueger too... Any amps you could point out to have a look at?

THANKS!
#2
10's work fine if you have enough of them.
I can't recommend MarkBass highly enough, both the heads and cabs.
My bassist has their 6x10 cab (with the Little Mark Tube 800 head) and it kicks arse. Sure, we don't play downtuned shit but that rig could do anything. Really light cab too with those Neo speakers.
Eden and GK are pretty good but in back to back tests, the Mark blew them clean out of the water.
Ashdown are shite.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#3
Quote by Carl LOG
Been looking at some Eden amps as well as Ashdown, some Gallien Krueger too... Any amps you could point out to have a look at?
I can't think of a better sounding bass amp than the GK 1001RB.
That's just me though.

As for the cab, I'd go for something like a 1x15" (or two), each one with a small tweeter or horn.
Or a 1x15" (or two) plus an array of a couple 2x10"s.
Even only the array of a couple 2x10"s, though you gotta make it a proper array - same speakers, same distance between each speaker, better if in parallel.

If you decide going looking for 1x15"s with horns, the by far best sounding one I've ever tried is the mark bass standard 151HR.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
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Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#4
Check out barefacedbass.com if you're in the EU (they're actually in the UK). Alex Claber designs bass cabinets that are cutting edge. Here in the US, wander over to TalkBass.com and check out folks like Dave Green ("greenboy") at www.greenboy.us, who designs the fEARful and fEARless cabs that I use and Duke LeJeune (Telekinesis).

The Markbass, Eden, etc. are old-school cabinets, most designed as much as 30 years ago. Many have "baked-in" sound. Cabs from the folks above are lighter, stronger, louder, and have flatter response, and are more easily able to be EQ'd into a lot of different sounds. They'll resemble modern pro audio systems in response. They're using speakers that have only recently come on the market, some of which handle far more power than the standard manufactured models.

The first thing you discover is that speaker cone size is immaterial to how low the cabinet will go. Phil Jones designs and markets excellent bass cabinets that utilize 5" speakers. Greenboy designed the Crazy 88's, amazing cabinets with a pair of 8" speakers. Do a bit of research.

I'm using a pair of fEARful 15/6/1's, cabinets that will easily handle a five-string bass, that weigh under 50 lbs each and that will easily put larger/heavier cabinets on the trailer. I've also got a pair of fEARless F115s (similar configuration, lighter, different physical shape that will allow them to stack OR be used as angled monitors).
#5
Quote by dspellman


The first thing you discover is that speaker cone size is immaterial to how low the cabinet will go. Phil Jones designs and markets excellent bass cabinets that utilize 5" speakers. Greenboy designed the Crazy 88's, amazing cabinets with a pair of 8" speakers. Do a bit of research.



+1
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#6
Quote by Cathbard
10's work fine if you have enough of them.
I can't recommend MarkBass highly enough, both the heads and cabs.
My bassist has their 6x10 cab (with the Little Mark Tube 800 head) and it kicks arse. Sure, we don't play downtuned shit but that rig could do anything. Really light cab too with those Neo speakers.
Eden and GK are pretty good but in back to back tests, the Mark blew them clean out of the water.
Ashdown are shite.


Alright sounds promising.. Why do you think Ashdown are shit?

Thanks for the replies btw!
#7
Quote by dspellman

The first thing you discover is that speaker cone size is immaterial to how low the cabinet will go. Phil Jones designs and markets excellent bass cabinets that utilize 5" speakers. Greenboy designed the Crazy 88's, amazing cabinets with a pair of 8" speakers. Do a bit of research.


Alright! Thanks for the reply.. well first thing I assumed about the speaker size would be the frequency response.. I'm nowhere near an expert if I'm honest, I just know a little more than some people hahahxD
#8
Quote by Spambot_2

Or a 1x15" (or two) plus an array of a couple 2x10"s.


I'd do this. 15" to get the fundamental, 10"s to balance out the bass/muddiness of the 15" and make the overtones sound good.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
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Ibanez RG520
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#9
^ yeah, plus, I mean, even small line arrays, and even small line arrays made with bass speakers, are among the most visually pleasing complexes of speakers you can produce
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#10
Quote by Offworld92
I'd do this. 15" to get the fundamental, 10"s to balance out the bass/muddiness of the 15" and make the overtones sound good.


These are common assumptions, but unfortunately, more a case of "listening with your eyes."

Most guitar players, and even a lot of bass players, make the assumption that the 10's are better for mids and highs, while the 15 is better for the lows, based solely on the size of the speaker.

The truth is, you can get the fundamental just fine with 10's, and 15" speakers aren't necessarily bassy or muddy at all.

Once again, don't confuse the cone size with the capability.

We've seen a lot of players put a single 15" cabinet and a 4x10 cabinet together using exactly this kind of thinking (without the knowledge to back it up). Later, they wonder why the 15" blew up and why their speaker system didn't lose lows, only a bit of volume.

There are bass cabinets (I have several) that have three different size speakers in them, and the 15" is, indeed, the low frequency driver, the 6" is the mids driver and the 1" is the HF driver. But each is designed specifically for its particular role, and there are crossover systems between them.

Cone size DOES have a bearing on dispersion, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.
#11
It's an assumption based on the frequency response listed on mfgs specs. 410s never go as low as 115s.


That said, it does depend on the fundamental. Most 410s have no problem whatsoever with an E1, most 410s nowadays will even do that B0 fine. But if you're tuning down to A0, G0, F#0 to match octave down with 8 string guitars that are so prevalent now? No 410 I've seen goes that low.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#12
Quote by Carl LOG
Alright sounds promising.. Why do you think Ashdown are shit?

Thanks for the replies btw!
They sound really flat and dull; they sound cheap is what they sound.
But better than that - I know a guy who had an Ashdown 4x10 cab literally blow apart on him while he was playing. Like the actual cabinet flew to bits. The walls actually blew out and the whole thing crumbled into a heap.
They're rubbish, man.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#13
Ampeg SVT 8x10s rule. When I saw Sleep Al’s backline was four SVTs running through four SVT 8x10 cabs and the entire ****ing building was shaking.
#14
Quote by jpnyc
Ampeg SVT 8x10s rule. When I saw Sleep Al’s backline was four SVTs running through four SVT 8x10 cabs and the entire ****ing building was shaking.


They also weigh somewhere around 150 lbs each (and I'm guessing that the heads aren't far behind that).

The fEARful 1515/66/1 will easily outshout them, go lower (and cleaner) than they do, and weigh half what they do.
Modern bass amps like the Carvin BX1500 (1500W) weigh in at about 10 lbs.

The times they have been a-changin'.
#15
Quote by Cathbard
They sound really flat and dull; they sound cheap is what they sound.
But better than that - I know a guy who had an Ashdown 4x10 cab literally blow apart on him while he was playing. Like the actual cabinet flew to bits. The walls actually blew out and the whole thing crumbled into a heap.
They're rubbish, man.


That's some seriously punishing internal compression.

But you've gotta wonder if that cabinet wasn't damaged prior to that incident. This was a solid plywood cabinet? No ports?
Last edited by dspellman at Jun 6, 2014,
#16
Not sure. But the guy who was telling me about said he wasn't even playing very loud. And anyway, that hardly matters. He was an old hand, he wouldn't have been driving it above the listed power rating. He's no fool. It just shouldn't ever happen. Ever heard of a Mark, GK or Ampeg cabinet literally falling apart on stage? Of course not.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
Quote by dspellman
They also weigh somewhere around 150 lbs each (and I'm guessing that the heads aren't far behind that).


He did have a big trailer in the parking lot for his gear.
#18
Quote by dspellman
The truth is, you can get the fundamental just fine with 10's, and 15" speakers aren't necessarily bassy or muddy at all.
Well 15" speakers tend to be able to reproduce lower frequency material at high volumes better than 10" speakers, hence the suggestion of the 15" speakers to reproduce low frequency material at high volumes.

Smaller speakers work just fine if you're doing stuff that doesn't require that SPL, though if you want to move lotsa air you gotta have stuff capable of moving that much air, and since I've never seen a proper line array designed for a musical instrument, here's another reason of the 15" speakers suggestion

Also, bass guitars go so low even most 15" speakers can't reproduce the fundamental, let alone the speakers designed specifically for bass guitars.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#19
Yep Spambot is right here. Bass speakers are always a tradeoff. You can get very deep bass response, fast transient response (punch), or high SPL. Choose any two.

Ampeg 810 delivers high SPL and transient response but not much sound below 50hz. It is the sound of Rock & Roll.

EBS Proline 15 delivers high SPL and is good down to 35hz but gives up some definition.
http://www.ebssweden.com/content/proline.php

Ampeg 410HLF goes to 30 hz with good transients but gives up SPL.

Hit a fundamental note with a lot of power that is well below the cabinet tuning and you can definitely break the cab or driver. It's a physics thing. Choose the right tool for your music.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jun 7, 2014,