#1
Does anyone know of a good resource for learning what scales to use in what key?

Also interested in a comprehensive chord progression resource.

Free and online is best if you know of any, but I will buy books as long as they are definitive.

Thanks
#2
Moved to mt

Unfortunately the quick answer you're looking for doesn't really exist, you're not going to learn what you want from a couple of forum posts. The answer is "learn music theory", but the MT regs will have lots of pearls of wisdom to get you on the right track
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#3
Quote by KarateRick
Does anyone know of a good resource for learning what scales to use in what key?


Here's the thing:

You can always use all twelve notes in every key.

You often want to use a subset of them that creates a certain feeling, but the real way to do that is to internalize the sounds of all 12 notes, and use the notes that create the sounds you want.

Some sounds are more popular than others, but really, if the question is "what scale should I play" the resulting music is not likely to be interesting. Start by internalizing the sounds of the major and minor scales, and then work on adding the most common accidentals. (eg, b7 in major, #6 in minor, b2 in minor) Once you've internalized those sounds, they will naturally come out of you when you play.

Also interested in a comprehensive chord progression resource.


Again, really no such thing exists. A good resource for learning the foundations of functional harmony - that is to say, how each chord WORKS in a given key, which allows you to build your own chord progressions that make sense - is Pedler's "Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles."
#4
"What scales to use in what key?"

Well, if you are in A minor, you most of the time use the A minor scale. Of course you can also use accidentals but you will most likely use the notes in the A minor scale most of the time.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#5
As steven said, there isn't an easy answer to this. One thing that may be helpful is to see how others use notes/chords in a key. Start off with something simple, like easy rock songs (AC/DC is a good place to start, since all their songs are 3 chords). Then, move into more complex stuff.
#6
Quote by HotspurJr
Here's the thing:


Again, really no such thing exists. A good resource for learning the foundations of functional harmony - that is to say, how each chord WORKS in a given key, which allows you to build your own chord progressions that make sense - is Pedler's "Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles."



Not to be a dick, but such a thing does exist. Its called the harmonic progression road map and its taught in every theory 101 class
#7
Quote by KarateRick
Does anyone know of a good resource for learning what scales to use in what key?

Also interested in a comprehensive chord progression resource.

Free and online is best if you know of any, but I will buy books as long as they are definitive.

Thanks


Do you know Diatonic Harmony?

When you are in a key, use that scale. If you are in G Major, as a key, use the G Major scale

If you in the key of B minor, use the B minor scale and its derivatives, B minor Pentatonic

Best,

Sean
#8
Quote by KarateRick
Does anyone know of a good resource for learning what scales to use in what key?


the answer to that is exactly what hotspur said:

Quote by HotspurJr
Some sounds are more popular than others, but really, if the question is "what scale should I play" the resulting music is not likely to be interesting. Start by internalizing the sounds of the major and minor scales, and then work on adding the most common accidentals. (eg, b7 in major, #6 in minor, b2 in minor) Once you've internalized those sounds, they will naturally come out of you when you play.


now, then.

Quote by KarateRick
Also interested in a comprehensive chord progression resource.

Free and online is best if you know of any, but I will buy books as long as they are definitive.


these aren't the kind of things you can buy. these are the kinds of things you earn and attain through years of practice and study.

yes, even if you manage to find a resource.

think about it this way - suppose one day i decide i want to conduct a surgical operation. if i go out, buy a few tools, read a book or two, and somehow find a poor sap willing to be operated upon, am i properly equipped to do what i'm seeking out to do?

the answer to that, of course, is no. but it's because the answer is no that you need to work, study, listen, learn, apply, etc. if there were a quick fix, everybody would be a hit songwriter, and there would be no value in it.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#9
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
As steven said, there isn't an easy answer to this. One thing that may be helpful is to see how others use notes/chords in a key. Start off with something simple, like easy rock songs (AC/DC is a good place to start, since all their songs are 3 chords). Then, move into more complex stuff.


Is AC/DC the best starting point? They use a lot of borrowed chords and also have the whole blues scale/minor over major thing going on a lot of the time. I'm not sure I'd want to start with that (though if he wants to get into rock straight away then AC/DC would be an excellent starting point).
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
Is AC/DC the best starting point? They use a lot of borrowed chords and also have the whole blues scale/minor over major thing going on a lot of the time. I'm not sure I'd want to start with that (though if he wants to get into rock straight away then AC/DC would be an excellent starting point).

Yeah, I would rather suggest some simple pop songs.

I mean, of course AC/DC is really simple but it's not that simple if you are just starting to learn music theory.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#12
Quote by bassalloverthe
Not to be a dick, but such a thing does exist. Its called the harmonic progression road map and its taught in every theory 101 class


Maybe you missed the word comprehensive?
#13
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Yeah, I would rather suggest some simple pop songs.

I mean, of course AC/DC is really simple but it's not that simple if you are just starting to learn music theory.


Yeah AC/DC is kind of simple in one way (easy to play (apart from the solos... and even the rhythm is difficult to play well, I'd say) using quite simple chords you learn as a beginner), but actually deceptively complex in another way (more theoretically).
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
Yeah AC/DC is kind of simple in one way (easy to play (apart from the solos... and even the rhythm is difficult to play well, I'd say) using quite simple chords you learn as a beginner), but actually deceptively complex in another way (more theoretically).

And they are not even theoretically that complex. They just require some more theoretic understanding than many other songs. But if you know theory well, you can say they are pretty simple theoretically (borrowing notes/chords from minor is actually the only more "complex" thing they do and they do it all the time).
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#15
Quote by Sean0913
When you are in a key, use that scale. If you are in G Major, as a key, use the G Major scale

If you in the key of B minor, use the B minor scale and its derivatives, B minor Pentatonic


TS, this is your answer. You don't need a book, just these two lines.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#16
^ Yeah

Quote by MaggaraMarine
And they are not even theoretically that complex. They just require some more theoretic understanding than many other songs. But if you know theory well, you can say they are pretty simple theoretically (borrowing notes/chords from minor is actually the only more "complex" thing they do and they do it all the time).


Oh yeah absolutely.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#17
I think my confusion lies not so much in the understanding of playing a G Major scale over a G Major chord necessarily (although I believe it can be a lot more complex than that), but rather how to determine what scale (s) to use in a chord progression.
So if I want to solo over a song that changes chords in the following manner: G-D-Am-C - I'm not sure what to do. Do I change the scale key that I'm in every time time the chord changes? IF so how do I transition? OR can I just play over everything in the key of G Major since all of the chords are in the key of G?
#18
Quote by KarateRick
I think my confusion lies not so much in the understanding of playing a G Major scale over a G Major chord necessarily (although I believe it can be a lot more complex than that), but rather how to determine what scale (s) to use in a chord progression.
So if I want to solo over a song that changes chords in the following manner: G-D-Am-C - I'm not sure what to do. Do I change the scale key that I'm in every time time the chord changes? IF so how do I transition? OR can I just play over everything in the key of G Major since all of the chords are in the key of G?

Changing the scale over every chord would not sound good in this case because the chord progression is in G major all the time and doesn't even use non-diatonic chords.

If there are no key changes, there's no point in changing scales all the time. Of course you can use accidentals but I would first get used to the sound of the notes in the major scale (because those are the notes you will use most of the time) and start experimenting with accidentals a bit later.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#19
Quote by KarateRick
I think my confusion lies not so much in the understanding of playing a G Major scale over a G Major chord necessarily (although I believe it can be a lot more complex than that), but rather how to determine what scale (s) to use in a chord progression.
So if I want to solo over a song that changes chords in the following manner: G-D-Am-C - I'm not sure what to do. Do I change the scale key that I'm in every time time the chord changes? IF so how do I transition? OR can I just play over everything in the key of G Major since all of the chords are in the key of G?


You would play in G major over that, almost always.

There is a (mostly used in Jazz) technique called chord-scale theory where you pick a scale for each chord, but this is really not very relevant in a simple case like this. It will make life much more complicated with minimal return.

When somebody looks at a chord progression like that and thinks in terms of changing scales, it usually suggests that they don't really know their scales as scales, but rather as shapes. And this is a key factor: you want to start to think about scales as SOUNDS. You're not soloing "in a scale" - you're using that set of sounds as your primary note choices.

Let's take a slightly more complex chord progression to show how this works:

G-C-A-D.

Now, three of the same chords, but the difference here is that the A is major. I've also mixed up the order to make the chord progression more functional: A-D-G is a very classic use of a secondary dominant. Because this progression is a very functional II-V-I, this is going to feel very G major (perhaps even more so than if the A chord were minor) but now you've got a problem. A major has a C# in it. C# isn't in the G major scale.

So you could, if you wanted, switch to the A major scale there. But that creates a lot of challenges. G major has an F#. The A major scale has a F#, C#, and G#. But the A major chord is the notes A, C#, and E. No G#. So switching to the A major scale is bringing in a G# that you don't need, and is going to be a tricky note to deal with because it's a b2 in G major and that's a note we rarely hear in major contexts.

But we don't need that G#. We just need the C#.

So what most good rock, folk, metal, and other non-jazz, non-classical contemporary musicians will do is simply, when they're playing over the A chord, simply use a C# when they otherwise would have played a C.

They changed dynamically, not switching the whole scale (who needs that G#?) but just switching the note that's going to cause a problem.

And they're able to do this easily because they're not thinking in terms of a shape on the fretboard, but rather a collection of sounds. They don't have to remap everything ("oh, wait, I'm now in this shape") they just either avoid the C-naturals or play them as C-sharps over the A major chord.

This sounds really complicated, but as you learn to think of these scales as sounds, not locations on the fretboard, it gets easier and easier. It also gets easier with experience. You know what a II-V-I is, and so know how to handle it without thinking. You know that the bVII is another common non-diatonic chord, and you learn how to handle that. etc.

But if your progression is diatonic - all the chords contain only notes from the parent scale - just roll with that scale. Remember that you can use other notes any time if you want to, but usually people master the sounds of the parent scale first, and then slowly work in the accidentals.
#20
Quote by KarateRick
I think my confusion lies not so much in the understanding of playing a G Major scale over a G Major chord necessarily (although I believe it can be a lot more complex than that), but rather how to determine what scale (s) to use in a chord progression.
So if I want to solo over a song that changes chords in the following manner: G-D-Am-C - I'm not sure what to do. Do I change the scale key that I'm in every time time the chord changes? IF so how do I transition? OR can I just play over everything in the key of G Major since all of the chords are in the key of G?


This is why you have to learn diatonic harmony,as a starting point. Seriously. Then you wouldn't have these questions.

Best,

Sean
#21
Quote by KarateRick
OR can I just play over everything in the key of G Major since all of the chords are in the key of G?


Yes you do this.

if you like the sound of other notes outside the scale you can play them too. They're called accidentals.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#22
Quote by HotspurJr
Maybe you missed the word comprehensive?


I assure you, I didnt


Also, good luck playing a G major scale over V/V in G lol

I should clarify. "The key of G" means something drastically different than the diatonic chords derived from the G major scale
Last edited by bassalloverthe at Jun 9, 2014,
#23
Quote by bassalloverthe
I assure you, I didnt


Well, thank you, therefore, for your significant and useful contribution to the thread.


Also, good luck playing a G major scale over V/V in G lol


Which isn't what what I suggested he do.


I should clarify. "The key of G" means something drastically different than the diatonic chords derived from the G major scale


I don't think we need you to clarify. If you want to do anything, try actually contributing something useful to the thread rather than snidely throwing barbs at people.

Or maybe you didn't actually mean that "not to be a dick, but ..." part of your post.
#24
OK. Thanks again for the info. I'm just a guy who's trying to learn btw. I appreciate all of the helpful advice. I'm not a guy who is easily intimidated, but music theory seems a daunting challenge.
#25
Quote by HotspurJr
Well, thank you, therefore, for your significant and useful contribution to the thread.





You mean telling Op exactly what he asked for? A comprehensive guide to functional chord progressions? Youre very welcome

The gmajor scale over they key of g wasn't a response to you, rather, Sean and Alan
Last edited by bassalloverthe at Jun 10, 2014,