Poll: Are you able to transcribe your own musical ideas?
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View poll results: Are you able to transcribe your own musical ideas?
Yes
30 83%
No
2 6%
WTF, how on Earth do I do that?
4 11%
Voters: 36.
#1
When you come up with a "lick, riff, " or some sort of musical idea, are you able to notate it rhythmically?
#2
yeah thats sort of the point of being able to write music to write it down

some ideas are more difficult and need to be played or worked out but for the most part yeah
#4
Just out of curiosity. It is interesting how people can play well and claim to not know much about how music works. Though I doubt the really good and fast players do not understand rhythmic notation.
#5
Sometimes you have to mess around for a bit, but for the most part you do need to know how to transcribe unless you want to just copy/paste riffs from a guitar book
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#6
Some people don't read rhythms so they can't write rhythms on paper. But they do understand rhythms. They know where the beat is and all that. They just don't know all the theoretical terms.

Of course you can come up with your own rhythms without knowing the notation.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Jun 8, 2014,
#7
I usually can. Sometimes if I wrote something that needs a lot of dotted or tied notes I'll have to experiment in guitar pro a little bit to figure out what the hell I'm playing, but most of the time the way I write it out first is right or very close. Even still, I'm not confident enough in my abilities to just write something on a piece of paper and know it's right unless it's something pretty simple. I just haven't practiced reading standard notation enough.
#8
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Some people don't read rhythms so they can't write rhythms on paper. But they do understand rhythms. They know where the beat is and all that. They just don't know all the theoretical terms.

Of course you can come up with your own rhythms without knowing the notation.


Yeah. I mean like most of this stuff, the theory came second to explain what people were more or less already doing, not the other way round.

I can do the more simple rhythms, but there's plenty of stuff where I'd have to sit down and think about it (or cheat and look up something with a similar rhythm) to be sure.

With a lot of the bluesier/rockier lead type stuff (citation needed ) it's kind of an approximation anyway...
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#9
Music from Ghana is some of the most rhythmically complex music I know of, with entire pieces being more or less complex poly rhythms. Its a completely oral tradition, notated only by western musicians who sought the music out for the specific purpose of recording and transcribing it.

Personally, I consider my ability to transcribe one of my greatest assets
#10
Nope, but it doesn't even matter. Nowadays any notation software can play the notes so I just go by trial & error. lol. I can transcribe simple rhythms, but that's about it.

I don't usually even need to transcribe my own stuff, though. I just record everything straight into a DAW. Notating it first would just slow me down.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Jun 8, 2014,
#11
Appreciate people that can but I prefer to record any new ideas straight away so I don't forget them,would take along time to write it down even using a program to help,only necessary for composers/orchestra type stuff where it needs to be done,I'd rather b jamming tunes
#12
Barely know music theory, play loads of stuff with some piece that make even "knowing" people scratch their heads.
Sometimes you just have to feel it.
#13
I'm a beginner that's starting over to relearn anything I screwed up. In short, if I think of a neat musical idea, I'm not able to immediately start noodling because by the time I figure it out on guitar or piano, I've forgotten most of it or it's gone through a change or two I possibly don't like.

Humming it into my phone's recorder? Beyond useful for me.

EDIT: For instance, I've been on this recent string of licks and riffs in 5/4 and 6/8 time. It's a little funny considering they aren't something I come across too much in the music I listen to, but I guess I really like them
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Last edited by jhalterman at Jun 9, 2014,
#14
Quote by Unreal T
Just out of curiosity. It is interesting how people can play well and claim to not know much about how music works. Though I doubt the really good and fast players do not understand rhythmic notation.


being able to utilize rhythm and being able to understand it when written are two separate skill sets. frankly, they'd be almost unrelated if they weren't tied together by the notion that they are both related to rhythm.

it very much depends on the style. if you want to play rock or metal you don't really need the ability to transcribe (although it obviously can't hurt). you're pretty much ****ed as far as jazz or more complex styles go if you can't transcribe, though.

Quote by rootsofmy
Barely know music theory, play loads of stuff with some piece that make even "knowing" people scratch their heads.
Sometimes you just have to feel it.


these "knowing" people you're talking about are merely developing their skills then. if there is a rhythm in any way shape or form it is possible to notate it. the same goes along the lines of music theory.

you should ALWAYS be able to feel it -- it is not a matter of the feasibility of notation. that's a very self-defeating dichotomy you're thinking in.
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#15
Quote by rootsofmy
Barely know music theory, play loads of stuff with some piece that make even "knowing" people scratch their heads.
Sometimes you just have to feel it.

I would argue that, in order to correctly transcribe anything, you HAVE to be able to feel it.
#16
^ Good point. Probably, yeah.

Quote by AeolianWolf

it very much depends on the style. if you want to play rock or metal you don't really need the ability to transcribe (although it obviously can't hurt).


Yeah- that's what I sort of want to clarify whenever I say about "not needing" something (which is theory-related). I don't mean that that means you shouldn't learn it if you can be bothered (as you said, "it can't hurt"), but some people act like if you say "you don't need it", that means you're saying "so don't bother learning it", and that's not the same thing at all.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#17
Quote by AeolianWolf

these "knowing" people you're talking about are merely developing their skills then. if there is a rhythm in any way shape or form it is possible to notate it. the same goes along the lines of music theory.

you should ALWAYS be able to feel it -- it is not a matter of the feasibility of notation. that's a very self-defeating dichotomy you're thinking in.


I'd say that I just like to play something they aren't really in. Not their cup, you know.

And yes, of "know but don't feel" and "feel but don't know" I'd rather be in a second part. You can learn theory, train your ears and fingers, but without the feeling - what's the reason? It's compassion that drives.
#18
Quote by rootsofmy
I'd say that I just like to play something they aren't really in. Not their cup, you know.

And yes, of "know but don't feel" and "feel but don't know" I'd rather be in a second part. You can learn theory, train your ears and fingers, but without the feeling - what's the reason? It's compassion that drives.


ah, but i can do both. see, that's the problem -- you think it has to be one or the other, or that you "like to play something that isn't their cup of tea" or some such nonsense. there is way more to it than mere compassion. if that were the case every tom, dick, and harry would be able to do it. and there is nothing of merit in being able to do what everyone is immediately capable of (unless you want to give me a trophy for breathing, of course).

you can say whatever you want, but it's absolutely not true -- so don't be surprised when other people disagree with you and can utilize logical arguments against whatever opinion you assert.

i'll say it again, just to drive the point home. that's a very self-defeating dichotomy you're thinking in.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#19
^
Why can't you have both feeling AND knowing? The only reason I see to not have the knowing is pure and simple laziness.
#20
FML. Why do people tend to NOT see "if", "I'd rather" and all that?
I keep saying that of those two feeling is MORE important, but isn't the only thing to get while playing. Bloody A.
#21
Quote by rootsofmy
FML. Why do people tend to NOT see "if", "I'd rather" and all that?
I keep saying that of those two feeling is MORE important, but isn't the only thing to get while playing. Bloody A.


Some of us see theory as one method of "feeling it." Were defensive because were presented with a false dichotomy
#22
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
^
Why can't you have both feeling AND knowing? The only reason I see to not have the knowing is pure and simple laziness.


So if someone comes along who has a nobel prize but who just messes with guitar for a bit of fun you're gonna say he/she is lazy if he/she doesn't know all the theory?

Obviously that's an extreme case, but I think it's valid. For some people it's just a bit of fun. The other thing is you could make that case for just about every different subject in the world.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#23
Quote by rootsofmy
FML. Why do people tend to NOT see "if", "I'd rather" and all that?
I keep saying that of those two feeling is MORE important, but isn't the only thing to get while playing. Bloody A.

Because I think BOTH are important. You're acting like, "If I had to choose, I'd pick feeling". And I'm saying, "Choose both". To me, it's not really one or the other. As bassalloverthe said, it's a false dichotomy on your part.


Quote by Dave_Mc
So if someone comes along who has a nobel prize but who just messes with guitar for a bit of fun you're gonna say he/she is lazy if he/she doesn't know all the theory?

I'm gonna say that, if he or she is all about having fun and feeling it...fine. BUT, I would also say if you want to take it seriously, having theory in your back pocket (so, to speak) is a good thing.

Obviously that's an extreme case, but I think it's valid. For some people it's just a bit of fun. The other thing is you could make that case for just about every different subject in the world.

Yeah, lol. It'd be like, if I just wanted to have fun studying physics, I'd get a lot further if I knew the basics of physics laws and equations and such, right? Of course, music and physics aren't comparable, but I would advocate studying the "theory" of physics (read: laws, equations, etc.). In the same way, I would advocate learning music theory.


You would think of a really oddball scenario for me to have to justify, wouldn't you?
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jun 10, 2014,
#24
I agree it's a false dichotomy.

And yeah, I'm gonna pick holes in your argument . At the same time I'd say it's valid for virtually any subject. That's an extreme case, but less extreme cases (say even if someone has a degree in another subject I'd say it's fair enough) are still valid and still prove my point. IMO.

Regarding the physics thing... yeah, it'd help to have some background there, but at the same time I wouldn't tell someone who was doing it for fun that they were lazy at all, and there's a big difference between knowing a bit of the theory (which is a good thing, I agree), and acting like anyone who doesn't know *all" the theory is lazy (if that's even possible, since there's always more to learn).

I mean, I don't know as much theory as you guys do but I think I know a fair bit considering I'm just doing it for fun. If someone who wanted to learn physics just for fun came along and didn't want to learn anything, then maybe that is lazy (I disagree, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt)- but there's a big difference between saying you don't want to learn what an electron is and saying you don't want to mess with advanced quantum theory. And that's kind of what I'm saying here.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#25
Yes.

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#26
Quote by Dave_Mc
I agree it's a false dichotomy.

And yeah, I'm gonna pick holes in your argument . At the same time I'd say it's valid for virtually any subject. That's an extreme case, but less extreme cases (say even if someone has a degree in another subject I'd say it's fair enough) are still valid and still prove my point. IMO.

Regarding the physics thing... yeah, it'd help to have some background there, but at the same time I wouldn't tell someone who was doing it for fun that they were lazy at all, and there's a big difference between knowing a bit of the theory (which is a good thing, I agree), and acting like anyone who doesn't know *all" the theory is lazy (if that's even possible, since there's always more to learn).

I mean, I don't know as much theory as you guys do but I think I know a fair bit considering I'm just doing it for fun. If someone who wanted to learn physics just for fun came along and didn't want to learn anything, then maybe that is lazy (I disagree, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt)- but there's a big difference between saying you don't want to learn what an electron is and saying you don't want to mess with advanced quantum theory. And that's kind of what I'm saying here.



To continue with the analogy, I see it more like someone who claims to understand the concepts of quantum mechanics, but doesnt know or want to know what an electron is.

AND, to make an argument, I would say that even you would be happy to learn as much complex theory as you could. You are simply willing to do it at a pace and intensity comfortable to you, which is to be encouraged. Like the difference between saying, "Thats something I could know if I wanted to, and eventually I might want to," and, "Thats something I dont need to know because Im fine without it."

But, at the same time, I would consider myself to know as much about theory as more or less anyone on this board--even so, there are concepts that are completely foreign to me. Like several months ago reading about James Tenneys theories on harmony. Also, only in the last year have I dabbled in standard JI notation (septimal commas, syntonic commas, and accidentals the likes of which I had never seen). One thing Ive been putting off for years is learning how to properly read chant noation. Should I blame myself for not knowing something I previously had no access to? Does it diminish my playing that I didnt know?

So to a point, I agree with you as well
Last edited by bassalloverthe at Jun 10, 2014,
#28
Quote by bassalloverthe
(a) To continue with the analogy, I see it more like someone who claims to understand the concepts of quantum mechanics, but doesnt know or want to know what an electron is.

(b) AND, to make an argument, I would say that even you would be happy to learn as much complex theory as you could. You are simply willing to do it at a pace and intensity comfortable to you, which is to be encouraged. Like the difference between saying, "Thats something I could know if I wanted to, and eventually I might want to," and, "Thats something I dont need to know because Im fine without it."

(c) But, at the same time, I would consider myself to know as much about theory as more or less anyone on this board--even so, there are concepts that are completely foreign to me. Like several months ago reading about James Tenneys theories on harmony. Also, only in the last year have I dabbled in standard JI notation (septimal commas, syntonic commas, and accidentals the likes of which I had never seen). One thing Ive been putting off for years is learning how to properly read chant noation. Should I blame myself for not knowing something I previously had no access to? Does it diminish my playing that I didnt know?

(d) So to a point, I agree with you as well


(a) I'm not really sure what you mean here- I'm not sure if you're referring to my point or crazysam23_Atax's

(b) Agreed.

I mean, when I started to learn guitar I had no intention of learning any theory, really (though I already knew a bit from piano and certainly wasn't "anti-theory" like some guitar players are, either). But as time's gone on I've learnt more and more- as you said/implied, you don't want to put people off and with some encouragement you can have people learning without even realising it, rather than annoying them and maybe making them quit in frustration.

(c) I don't know anywhere near as much as the regulars here.

But yeah I agree with you- it's a fine line between making a genuine judgement call that something just plain isn't worth your time because you'll never (or hardly ever) use it (which is a good thing, IMO), and being anti-intellectual (which is a bad thing, IMO).

I mean in most subjects once you hit a certain level you have to specialise down and ignore other things.

(d)

From what I've seen of your post there (apart from (a) which went over my head ) I don't disagree with you at all.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?