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#1
I'm sure I could be getting a bettter sound out of my setup and thinking maybe it's the speaker letting it down. I don't have a load of cash but really like the mesa mark iv sound (can't afford one of these though).

Anyway, I'm playing with active EMGs using bridge pickup, boosting with a cheapo joyo vintage overdrive drive=0, volume=10, tone=4oclock-ish. Then got a fromel shape parametric EQ in the fx loop to beef up the lower mids. Using an orange dark terror, shape=10oclock, gain-11oclock, also replaced JJ with tungsol 12ax7 in V1 preamp. I've found I can get a pretty decent tone out of it (not mark iv, but good enough to me for now). Something is still lacking though, sounds a bit thin to me. Almost like I'm trading off the flabby bottom end of an orange amp, tightening it up, and then losing too much.

So, all I could get at the time was an HT-112 1x12" with a blackbird 50 speaker I believe. Now to the point, I'm wondering whether it would be a good idea to just invest in a single speaker more suited to what I'm trying to achieve and replace it. Or, wait a while and get a 2x12" cab? Bearing in mind I only realistically get to play at lower volumes (about 0.8-1 on the amp unless the neighbours are out).

I don't have much luxury for trying many different speakers so any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.
Last edited by samwillc at Jun 9, 2014,
#2
Celestion G12h30 or clones work really well with Orange amps
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#3
Id wait and get a closed back 2X12 with the g12h"s like stated above or vintage 30's - clones or celestions, you'll happier with the 2X12 verses the 1X12.
Adding a second speaker will help thicken your sound
#4
Thanks for the suggestions. Will have to find out more about the g12h30 speakers. It's a bit bewildering at first with so much choice of speakers/cab size/cab shape. The combinations seem endless.
#5
What Orange do you have?
Gibson LP traditional and DC standard, PRS S2 Custom 24, MIA Standard Strat, Schecter Banshee 7
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#7
Quote by samwillc
Orange dark terror.

If you want a classic rock/classic-metal tone then Greenbacks work well

If you want to do classic rock/metal and more modern styles, G12h30 would be my choice

If you want a modern hard-rock and modern metal sound, V30
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#8
Maybe a combo of g12h30 and a v30?
I personally have not tried them together. I am in the process of speaker shopping as well. I like my g12t75 with vet 30, I might go all v30s though just to see.
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#9
I like tones from bands like at the gates, in flames, behemoth (now), entombed (early). So I don't play classic rock at all, none. I am trying to get a full sound but to maintain tightness. I like what I have at the moment but sounds like things will get even better when I bag some different speakers.
#10
Quote by samwillc
I like tones from bands like at the gates, in flames, behemoth (now), entombed (early). So I don't play classic rock at all, none. I am trying to get a full sound but to maintain tightness. I like what I have at the moment but sounds like things will get even better when I bag some different speakers.

V30's are good for that type of music

If you live in Europe you cant beat the price on this cab with V30's
www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm
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#11
Quote by samwillc
I like tones from bands like at the gates, in flames, behemoth (now), entombed (early). So I don't play classic rock at all, none. I am trying to get a full sound but to maintain tightness. I like what I have at the moment but sounds like things will get even better when I bag some different speakers.


You need a Boss Hm-2 pedal. Not so much for Behemoth, but definitely for the other two bands.
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#12
Quote by KailM
You need a Boss Hm-2 pedal. Not so much for Behemoth, but definitely for the other two bands.

Don't 'need' but this could definitely help. max the bass, keep the treble below ~2 o'clock IMO
#13
Quote by 7thString
Don't 'need' but this could definitely help. max the bass, keep the treble below ~2 o'clock IMO



If he wants to get very close to the At The Gates/Entombed sound, no amount of EQ'ing will get there. Certainly, he can get an equally heavy tone, just not the same.

There is something about the HM-2 that is absolutely critical in getting that buzzsaw, yet thick and deep distortion. That pedal is more important than speaker selection, in my opinion.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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#14
Can I just set the record straight, I'm not trying to emulate the Swedish death metal sound so not buying any more pedals for the moment, I just threw some names of bands I like out there. I'm more concerned with which speakers and which size cab (for more fullness yet maintaining a tight bass end. I like what I have now but it's a bit too thin sounding).

So are we talking about a 1x12 with a g12h-30/v30 in or get a 2x12". I've seen the harley benton one before and thought it seemed like a good deal seeing as the v30s can be about £75 each here. Maybe get the harley benton and in the future I could swap out one of the v30s and put a g12h-30 in to see what both would sound like. I read a few people doing this on the orange forum.
Last edited by samwillc at Jun 10, 2014,
#15
I honestly LOVE the Orange Terror series AND the distortion/OD provided. I recommend changing your tubes if you don't like it. Also, my best friend has the Orange Dark Terror. He has the Orange PPC212 120w Open-Back cab. Works very well together. I personally love it. If you want more gain the the terror has, i recommend the MXR Wylde OD or the Ibanez TS-9 Tube Screamer.
#16
Hi, it's not the OD that's the problem, I was gonna buy an OD808 but demos showed me that the joyo is literally so similar that £60 more is not justified at all for the maxon. My favourite tone (of the moment!) is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVd1Zr8sHec

Sounds like sweet, tight crunchy sweetness to my ears. I am also aware that mic position and stuff plays a big part because this is a recording after all. Actually having quite a good time with my first tube amp, plus with the fromel shape, the tone choice is pretty big. I get crunchy, I get enough gain, but when I get it tight enough adjusting the mids (boosting lower mids with a shelf OR peaking the mids at certain frequencies), I don't get enough bass! As soon as I start boosting the bass too far in the fx loop, it gets muddy again.
#17
I think a 2x12 with a V30 and G12k100 combo is what you need
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#18
If you have a Guitar Center near you could just take the Dark Terror and plug it up to a bunch of different cabinets. Try them all. When you get to a cab you like see what speakers are in there.

Going from cheap/budget speakers to great ones can make a huge difference. Some people love V30s. Some people can't stand them. Try before you buy.
Last edited by cheesefries at Jun 11, 2014,
#19
Quote by Robbgnarly
V30's are good for that type of music

If you live in Europe you cant beat the price on this cab with V30's
www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm
This.
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#20
Quote by Robbgnarly
V30's are good for that type of music

If you live in Europe you cant beat the price on this cab with V30's
www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm


Yeah I'm in the UK. I've seen these, seems a very good price, but I heard they use the cheapo v30 speakers which I have seen a demo of. Compared to UK made ones, they sounded worse.

Quote by classicrocker01
I think a 2x12 with a V30 and G12k100 combo is what you need


Now this sounds interesting, the G12k100s seem to kick major ass, plenty of bass and plenty tight.

Maybe buy the harley benton, and swap out one of the speakers. But then I'm left with a Chinese v30 that I couldn't sell for much. Even buying an empty cab here seems like ridiculous prices. I'd make the thing myself if I had plans but don't have access to a workshop any more.
#21
The Harley Benton is pretty decent, and the V30s aren't bad at all. Plenty of users here have them and like them.


Both of my 4x12s have the combo I mentioned before. Very full and balanced sounding, with plenty of clarity and punch
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#22
Quote by samwillc
Yeah I'm in the UK. I've seen these, seems a very good price, but I heard they use the cheapo v30 speakers which I have seen a demo of. Compared to UK made ones, they sounded worse.


Now this sounds interesting, the G12k100s seem to kick major ass, plenty of bass and plenty tight.

Maybe buy the harley benton, and swap out one of the speakers. But then I'm left with a Chinese v30 that I couldn't sell for much. Even buying an empty cab here seems like ridiculous prices. I'd make the thing myself if I had plans but don't have access to a workshop any more.

Mesa Boogie and Marshall are the only company's that get MIE V30's. All V30's are made in china now, even the ones Orange use

You should be able to get 60GBP for a slightly used V30 (maybe even more?)
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#23
Quote by samwillc
Yeah I'm in the UK. I've seen these, seems a very good price, but I heard they use the cheapo v30 speakers which I have seen a demo of. Compared to UK made ones, they sounded worse.


As robb said, virtually everyone uses MIC V30s these days.

I've never tried the english-made ones, but people I trust say they sound identical.

The Mesa and Marshall ones sound a bit different because they have a slightly different spec, not because they're made in the UK.

Far as I'm aware.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
As robb said, virtually everyone uses MIC V30s these days.

I've never tried the english-made ones, but people I trust say they sound identical.

The Mesa and Marshall ones sound a bit different because they have a slightly different spec, not because they're made in the UK.

Far as I'm aware.

+311
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#25


I should add as well that v30s sound a lot different when broken in. One theory to explain why a lot of people say the older ones sound different is that people were comparing old English-made ones (which were well broken-in) to new Chinese-made ones (which weren't).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
^^To further add to that, it takes A LONG time to break-in speakers. I don't know about V 30s, but my Eminence Governors (V30 clones) took about 50 hours of playing before they sounded their best.

The first one I bought, I almost tried to sell after a few days because it sounded terrible (too bright, harsh, and brittle). But I stuck it out and played it for several weeks and it started to smooth out and develop more low-end, albeit very tight low end.
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#27
Ok sounds like maybe a second hand cab might be better with speakers that have been used for awhile, as with the amount I get to practice between studying it would take about 3 months for them to sound any good!
#28
Quote by samwillc
Ok sounds like maybe a second hand cab might be better with speakers that have been used for awhile, as with the amount I get to practice between studying it would take about 3 months for them to sound any good!

All you have to do is hook an Ipod to the amp and play music through the cab for 20 hours.
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#29
Ok, so I think I'm gonna order a harley benton vintage 212 at the end of the month with 2 x v30. I just can't justify getting an empty cab and then 1xv30 and 1x G12k100 which would cost over £300. For the amount I get to practice at the moment, the extra money would be a waste.

Thanks for the help everyone.
#30
You'll be served well I think. Plus, you can always swap one of the v30s later if you want
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#31
^ Agreed.

Only thing is, the v30s in the g212vintage are 16 ohms, and the g12k100 is only available in 8 ohms. So you couldn't swap that one in (I think they used to be available in 16 ohms so maybe you could go used), but you could swap a different speaker in there if you wanted and if you wanted to recoup some of the cost, sell the v30.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#32
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ Agreed.

Only thing is, the v30s in the g212vintage are 16 ohms, and the g12k100 is only available in 8 ohms. So you couldn't swap that one in (I think they used to be available in 16 ohms so maybe you could go used), but you could swap a different speaker in there if you wanted and if you wanted to recoup some of the cost, sell the v30.


Damn. that's a shame. Anyone heard of this place?

http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/montage-212-intro-2-x-12-guitar-cabinet-discounted-speakers-p-1852.html

And they are discussed here:

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/8531/montage-1x12-cab

I can get a 2x12" with 2 x G12k-100 for £270. Then one day maybe just find a cheap used v30 and swap (or maybe I wouldn't even need to if I liked the sound). I lean toward liking the g12k-100 more than the v30 anyway. Not sure what the 'sonic diffuser' dropdown is though, I didn't select it as it would add to the price and no idea what it even is.

Also, my thinking is that if I get one with 2 x 16ohm v30s, then finding g12k-100 to match will be a real pain. If I get one with 2 x g12k-100 already, finding a 8ohm v30 will be easy.
Last edited by samwillc at Jun 19, 2014,
#33
A sonic diffuser is to stop the high pitch ice pick sound you often get beaming right out the centre of the cone. It breaks it up and spreads it around so it blends in at all angles instead of being concentrated in the middle and killing the people directly in front of it - that would be you.

They list 4, 8 and 16 ohm. Just order an 8 ohm 2x12 and you'll get 16 ohm drivers. Then you can mix and match. If I were you I'd be specific and tell them you want 16 ohm drivers, in an 8 ohm cab. Contact them and discuss it before you place the order and nail it down. You don't want to get stuck with 4 ohm speakers.
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#34
Sounds like a sensible idea. Still need to decide which to get. Thanks.
#35
I don't believe k100s or v30s come in 4 ohm, so you should be fine. Someone confirm please?
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#36
^ that's what it says on the celestion site, but like cath says it's not that hard to send an email and be certain

Quote by samwillc
Damn. that's a shame. Anyone heard of this place?

http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/montage-212-intro-2-x-12-guitar-cabinet-discounted-speakers-p-1852.html

And they are discussed here:

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/8531/montage-1x12-cab

I can get a 2x12" with 2 x G12k-100 for £270. Then one day maybe just find a cheap used v30 and swap (or maybe I wouldn't even need to if I liked the sound). I lean toward liking the g12k-100 more than the v30 anyway. Not sure what the 'sonic diffuser' dropdown is though, I didn't select it as it would add to the price and no idea what it even is.

Also, my thinking is that if I get one with 2 x 16ohm v30s, then finding g12k-100 to match will be a real pain. If I get one with 2 x g12k-100 already, finding a 8ohm v30 will be easy.


yeah. those cabs are pretty nice for the price. i noticed a little bit of a rattle out of mine, but i do have them stacked so maybe that's doing it (i didn't notice a rattle before i stacked them ).

you could always get the harley benton g212 (not the vintage one, to swap speakers i mean) if you wanted to use two g12k100s. might be even slightly cheaper again. Up to you, of course.

or if you're willing to go used, get the harley benton g212 vintage and get a used 16 ohm g12k100. I think maybe it used to be called g12k85 or something like that. from what i hear it was the same thing, but trashed will know better than me, I think he's the one who clued me in to that (but I might be misremembering).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jun 19, 2014,
#37
^ yes the G12k85 is the exact same as the K100 and they did make a 16 and 8 ohm version.
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#38
^
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
Well, my 1x12" blackstar is gone, sold that. So now have just an orange dark terror head, and a little peavey vypyr 15. What's concerning me more is that I actually prefer the sound of the modelled mesa rec/6505 on the vypyr! Seems so much tighter than I have attempted to make the dark terror. Obviously, low volume is a factor but can't help but think I'm trying to get something out of the dark terror which it isn't designed for.
Last edited by samwillc at Jun 20, 2014,
#40
Quote by Cathbard
They list 4, 8 and 16 ohm. Just order an 8 ohm 2x12 and you'll get 16 ohm drivers. Then you can mix and match. If I were you I'd be specific and tell them you want 16 ohm drivers, in an 8 ohm cab. Contact them and discuss it before you place the order and nail it down. You don't want to get stuck with 4 ohm speakers.


Ok so probably not going to go down the lean-business route as the total cost will end up more like £300. So looking at these two (again) but still not sure about what all the numbers mean:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm

"Harley Benton G212 Vintage guitar cabinet - 2x 12" Celestion Vintage 30 speakers, 120watts/8ohm, 2x 60watts/16ohm, mono/stereo (switchable)."

and this:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pcab212v30.htm

"Palmer PCAB212V30, electric guitar cabinet, 100 watts, 8 Ohms, 2x 12 Celestion V30 speakers"

What does this mean about the individual speakers? I was told earlier that the HB uses 16ohm speakers, so that rules out me swapping in a G12K-100. But what about the palmer cab? Would still be only £240 delivered also with v30, but are these 8ohm ones i.e. I *could* swap one out for a G12K-100 in the future. That would be a good compromise for me.

However, someone is also selling an orange 2x12 closed back near me for £200... which is cheaper than the palmer! But once again, may be the old 16ohm issue.

Thanks.
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