#1
So few months ago I bought a Charvel DST-1, the star shaped axe. The guitar is great, but I'm having the neck-dive problem, where the guitar keeps tilting down to a like 90 degree position.

Apparently relocating the straps would fix the problem, but I'm too scared to drill into my guitar to do it. I need some advice, opinions. I'm stuck between the "if I drill into it and relocate the strap, I might fix it, or I might ruin the guitar and waste the money spent on".

This is where I'd drill the hole into. I'd place it at the typical back position.

So your opinions? Should I do it or not? Will I **** up my guitar for good or will I get this through?

EDIT:

Coming back to this thread to tell you guys, I did it, I drilled into the back of the guitar and relocated the straps.

Did that fix the neck dive? HELL YES IT DID!!

The guitar balances perfectly fine now and is a blast to play.
Last edited by bodommaster at Jun 25, 2014,
#2
Are you using a nylon strap? When using cheap nylon straps they can make even a very slightly neck heavy guitar seem way worse than it really is because they are so slippery. If you are using one, I would try getting a good wide leather strap with the rough open grain on the back. I would do that first before thinking about relocating any strap buttons. Plus the wider leather straps are much nicer and more dependable than a cheap run of the mill nylon one.
#3
Quote by Way Cool JR.
Are you using a nylon strap? When using cheap nylon straps they can make even a very slightly neck heavy guitar seem way worse than it really is because they are so slippery. If you are using one, I would try getting a good wide leather strap with the rough open grain on the back. I would do that first before thinking about relocating any strap buttons. Plus the wider leather straps are much nicer and more dependable than a cheap run of the mill nylon one.


I've already bought myself a leather strap, it does help a little bit, but it still makes the neck drop.
#4
It's not going to fix the problem. There's not enough distance difference there. You'll drill the hole, convince yourself it worked, then the neck will drop.

The problem is that, like the Gibson SG, it's a poor design done largely for looks, and it neck-dives.

There are cures. The least invasive is to attach weight to the strap at the bottom of the guitar. I've seen this done a lot of ways, from a duct tape solution to sewing a pocket to extending the strap to actually hang below the guitar slightly.
More invasive is to have a good tech rout a spot near the bottom strap button and epoxy in some pieces of lead or tungsten to balance the guitar once and for all. On a guitar like this, entering through the edge of the guitar is possible, and a simple cover plate would hide it. On the SG, the clever solution was to rout the bottom edge where the straplock goes, install a 10 ounce block of brass, screw that into the body, and then screw the straplock into the block of brass. Job done.
#5
Try a leather strap! I would not drill the body because. 1- You can broke it 2- what if you want to sell it in lets say 3 years? just IMO
#6
Quote by dspellman
It's not going to fix the problem. There's not enough distance difference there. You'll drill the hole, convince yourself it worked, then the neck will drop.

The problem is that, like the Gibson SG, it's a poor design done largely for looks, and it neck-dives.

There are cures. The least invasive is to attach weight to the strap at the bottom of the guitar. I've seen this done a lot of ways, from a duct tape solution to sewing a pocket to extending the strap to actually hang below the guitar slightly.
More invasive is to have a good tech rout a spot near the bottom strap button and epoxy in some pieces of lead or tungsten to balance the guitar once and for all. On a guitar like this, entering through the edge of the guitar is possible, and a simple cover plate would hide it. On the SG, the clever solution was to rout the bottom edge where the straplock goes, install a 10 ounce block of brass, screw that into the body, and then screw the straplock into the block of brass. Job done.


Those are some very nice ideas. I just found a few videos on youtube with more tricks how to fix the neck dive. Thanks for the reply!

It is really interesting though, so many years the guitars have been made and neck dive has been an issue, many guitar companies still haven't put an effort into fixing it.

Quote by blackone666
Try a leather strap! I would not drill the body because. 1- You can broke it 2- what if you want to sell it in lets say 3 years? just IMO


Like I said to someone above, I have already bought a leather strap and it doesn't completely fix the issue.
#7
Strap weights are the key if a little neck heavy is driving you insane. I played an SG live for 10 years and maybe 500 gigs and just got used to the feel. I really liked having a 6lb guitar around my neck for the long nights. With light weight guitars it is a feature, not a bug but some guys just go postal if the neck feels a bit heavy. Like any guitar it is just a tool. Learning to use the tool is part of the process.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#8
I have moved my strap buttons on two of my schecter hellraiser V's and didnt screw up the guitar. They key is not drilling to deep. You need to only drill in a 1/2 inch. Check your screw length before hand tho. I also do not plan on getting rid of my V's, so you may think twice if you know your arent going to keep it.
#9
Quote by Cajundaddy
Strap weights are the key if a little neck heavy is driving you insane. I played an SG live for 10 years and maybe 500 gigs and just got used to the feel. I really liked having a 6lb guitar around my neck for the long nights. With light weight guitars it is a feature, not a bug but some guys just go postal if the neck feels a bit heavy.


I'm one of those guys for whom neck-heavy isn't an option. It's possible to have a lightweight and *balanced* guitar (though I don't mind the heavy - balanced - ones at all), and I really don't see any reason to screw with having to support the neck of the guitar with my fretting hand. While the guitar may be a tool, there are enough intelligently designed tools out there that there's no reason to learn to use a bad one.

BTW, I tried out one of those Headless Holdsworth guitars from Carvin a while back, up at the Carvin store on Sunset. 25.5" scale, 24 frets clear, only 31" long, and it weighs 5 lbs (another 7/10ths pound -- all back by the bottom neck strap -- if you order the trem version).

On, and since you're in the SoCal area, try the Griddle Cafe on Sunset near Fairfax for breakfast. Order pancakes. Holy moley.
#10
Quote by bodommaster


It is really interesting though, so many years the guitars have been made and neck dive has been an issue, many guitar companies still haven't put an effort into fixing it.


It's because people buy the guitars for looks first, and then discover the issues with the neck dive later, when they actually play the guitar. Manufacturers build what sells, not necessarily what plays well.

I have some guitars that have a similar style, but reversed (which changes the strap location, of course, and balances them):



And I have one with the same basic design, but with enough changes (including a Floyd Upgrades heavier brass sustain block) that it actually balances:




Quote by bodommaster

Like I said to someone above, I have already bought a leather strap and it doesn't completely fix the issue.


It won't -- what it WILL do is pull your shirt up in the back <G>.
Last edited by dspellman at Jun 13, 2014,
#11
I had an SG for a bit, and I solved it by buying straplocks, then putting a few heavy washers on the tail side. Didn't completely fix it, but coupled with a leather strap it was very manageable.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#12
Quote by pantallica87
They key is not drilling to deep. You need to only drill in a 1/2 inch. Check your screw length before hand tho.



1. Make sure you use the right sized drill bit for the screw you're gonna use.

2. The bit should be the same width as the middle of the screw, not as wide as the threads.

3. Use masking tape over where you plan on drilling, mark your spot.

4. Leave the tape in place as you drill, this will keep the top of the wood from splintering and looking ugly afterwards.


I've moved the button on 2 of my guitars with no problems, they still dive a little but no where near as dramatically as before. Its not a big deal.
Imagination is more important than knowledge...
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
- Albert Einstein -
#13
Sorry I didn't reply back earlier, didn't have time. So if you're already using a leather strap with a rough grain back on it and still having the issue. Your best bet is to weight your strap like others have said. I would not bother moving the strap button because IMO it's not going to solve your issue at all. It's just not going to change the leverage of the guitar enough, or at all for that mater.


Quote by dspellman
It won't -- what it WILL do is pull your shirt up in the back <G>.
Not always, it depends on how neck heavy a guitar is. If you have a guitar that is slightly neck heavy and use a nylon strap it will feel/seem worse than it really is because of how slick the strap is. I'v had a few guitars over the years that a good leather (rough back) strap cured the issue. And no it was not twisting or pulling my shirts up or doing anything awkward. So what you're saying is just not true for all neck heavy guitars. Some of them yes, but not all of them.
#14
Coming back to this thread to tell you guys, I did it, I drilled into the back of the guitar and relocated the straps.

Did that fix the neck dive? HELL YES IT DID!!

The guitar balances perfectly fine now and is a blast to play.