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#1
hi,
so i was thinking my whole band thinks we sound like a groove metal band, but i really don't know what is groove metal. iv'e heard groove metal albums. but still i'm not sure if i know the exact definition.
some aspects of my band are the vocalist is really inspired by korn, which is an nu band and the rhythm guitarist really likes lamb of god which is a groove metal, he composes all the riffs.
A lot of our main riffs are very repetitive and feature a lot of dotted notes. The vocals are also repetitive in melody and rhythm, and are quite catchy. The songs have a catchy feel where you can sing the riffs. songs are around 150 bpm. Here's one single http://www.reverbnation.com/realmunseen.

So can someone define the rhythmic and melodic aspects of groove metal With music theory and notation.
#3
Quote by hamza hashmi
hi,
so i was thinking my whole band thinks we sound like a groove metal band, but i really don't know what is groove metal. iv'e heard groove metal albums. but still i'm not sure if i know the exact definition.
some aspects of my band are the vocalist is really inspired by korn, which is an nu band and the rhythm guitarist really likes lamb of god which is a groove metal, he composes all the riffs.
A lot of our main riffs are very repetitive and feature a lot of dotted notes. The vocals are also repetitive in melody and rhythm, and are quite catchy. The songs have a catchy feel where you can sing the riffs. songs are around 150 bpm. Here's one single http://www.reverbnation.com/realmunseen.

So can someone define the rhythmic and melodic aspects of groove metal With music theory and notation.


Quote by Ironic Maiden
It's uses the shitqueer scale frequently and uses anallicking rhythms


don't expect much from this website
#6
But its such a boring genre ;_;

Its not even really a genre, its more of a descriptive term. You hear djent bands being called 'groove metal' simply because they have grooves in their songs. Even a band like Daath, who are labelled groove metal, have none of the traits of the genre other than they're American and sprouted up around the same time LoG became popular.

Its also really not something you should invest time into writing... srsly

If you're still sticking to this idea, then the first thing you should be doing is downloading a bunch of tabs from groove based bands, seeing it laid out then just analysing how the riffs are written and so on.
Attachments:
devildriver_horn_of_betrayal.gp5
periphery_icarus_lives.gp5
monuments_97_static.gp5
textures_surreal_state_of_enlightenment.gp4
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#7
Quote by hamza hashmi
hi,
so i was thinking my whole band thinks we sound like a groove metal band, but i really don't know what is groove metal. iv'e heard groove metal albums. but still i'm not sure if i know the exact definition.
some aspects of my band are the vocalist is really inspired by korn, which is an nu band and the rhythm guitarist really likes lamb of god which is a groove metal, he composes all the riffs.
A lot of our main riffs are very repetitive and feature a lot of dotted notes. The vocals are also repetitive in melody and rhythm, and are quite catchy. The songs have a catchy feel where you can sing the riffs. songs are around 150 bpm. Here's one single http://www.reverbnation.com/realmunseen.

So can someone define the rhythmic and melodic aspects of groove metal With music theory and notation.


Nice sound there mate. Not keen on the heavy screaming but thats just my taste. Good work.
#9
I guess you could consider Groove Metal to be a sub genre of metal, based around simple "grooves" or riffs. These riffs are usually slow, repetitive (not in a bad way) and rhythm heavy (as apposed to melody), and thus creating a strong groove. A great example of this genre is Pantera (Walk and Cowboys From Hell are great examples of their style). I also consider Meshuggah to be a good example of groove metal (I'll be it more polyrhythmical and br00tal, but all their songs focus around simple grooves.)

That's probably the most text book definition I can think of, and probably doesn't answer your question but hey neither do 90% of the above posts do soooo.
Last edited by Jimjambanx at Jun 14, 2014,
#12
I don't think groove metal should even be a genre. I agree with Zaqq, this sounds the same as thrash but down tuned with some dude growling
#14
Hard rock song songwriting structures and instrumentation, but with a metal aesthetic. Heavy chunky riffs, lots of rhythmic chugging. Simple structures, appeals to fans of aesthetic heaviness. Slightly more aggressive vocals than the hard rock counterpoint. Often uses double bass, again to give the illusion of heaviness. Focus on rhythm rather than melody.

I reckon that's a good start. Though I realise it doesn't delve too much into music theory. Though I do wonder if you perhaps actually meant musical features of groove metal, rather than the theory behind it.
#16
Quote by AnnihiSlateR
Hard rock song songwriting structures and instrumentation, but with a metal aesthetic. Heavy chunky riffs, lots of rhythmic chugging. Simple structures, appeals to fans of aesthetic heaviness. Slightly more aggressive vocals than the hard rock counterpoint. Often uses double bass, again to give the illusion of heaviness. Focus on rhythm rather than melody.

I think that's a good summary. It is perfectly possible for band to emphasise the rhythmic component and still have that sense of melodic development that defines good metal (Deicide, Suffocation and Exodus being good examples), but, if you take a song like Walk, it is basically a rock song and the riffs are put together on the basis of rhythmic hooks.

In other words, just listen to AC/DC because they do it much better.
#17
Quote by Ironic Maiden
It's uses the shitqueer scale frequently and uses anallicking rhythms
Quote by siksenserecords
don't expect much from this website

TS, you really should ask theory questions in the Musicians Talk forum. You're more likely to get a serious answer.


Quote by EpiExplorer
It's not even really a genre, its more of a descriptive term.

Actually, it pretty much is. Groove Metal is defined as:
Also called post-thrash, and as the name suggests, it's an extreme metal formed after thrash made its wave.

It blended heavy metal, thrash metal, and hardcore punk together and it came into being in the early 1990s thanks to bands such as Sepultura, Machine Head, White Zombie, Exhorder, Fear Factory, and Pantera.


That all said, 90% of groove metal bands are boring as shit.
#19
Quote by Jimjambanx
Please don't refer to Meshuggah as djent, it's an insult to the band.


I'm sure the band is very offended and are grateful that you feel hurt for them.

Jeebus wept.
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#21
Quote by NathanBForrest
Pantera. Demon Hunter. Listen to these bands, that is groove metal.

dont listen to these shitty bands, they suck ass
banned
#22
Quote by deadsmileyface
dont listen to these shitty bands, they suck ass

I'm sure you dont listen to anything that doesnt involve record scratching and gold toofs. Keepz it reel yo.
#24
Quote by NathanBForrest
I'm sure you dont listen to anything that doesnt involve record scratching and gold toofs. Keepz it reel yo.

lol
#25
Quote by NathanBForrest
I'm sure you dont listen to anything that doesnt involve record scratching and gold toofs. Keepz it reel yo.

yes i definitely wouldnt waste my time listening to anything without record scratching and gold toofs. do you?
banned
#26
Quote by EpiExplorer
I'm sure the band is very offended and are grateful that you feel hurt for them.

Jeebus wept.


Thank you for understanding.
But in all seriousness calling them djent is like calling Black Sabbath Heavy Metal. While they may be the fathers of the genre, their music is too different to most bands of the genre. To me I prefer calling them progessive groove metal, as most djent labelled bands are pretty djeneric.
#28
Quote by Jimjambanx

But in all seriousness calling them djent is like calling Black Sabbath Heavy Metal.


if you're trying to say it's wrong to call Sabbath heavy metal then either you or I are confused.
Free your mind and your ass will follow
The kingdom of heaven is within
Open up your funky mind and you can fly

Sumdeus
#29
I'm curious where you draw the line between heavy metal and doom rome. I mean, Sabbath is well known for the downtuned, thick riffs that are characteristic of doom. I'm not trying to be a dick; I'm actually interested in how you define each respective genre. I think something like Judas Priest when I think of Heavy metal, and Sabbath comes across more doomy in my mind.
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
#30
I thought groove metal was when a bitch band pulls their spandex up so tight you could see their groove?
#31
Quote by The Virtuoso
I'm curious where you draw the line between heavy metal and doom rome. I mean, Sabbath is well known for the downtuned, thick riffs that are characteristic of doom. I'm not trying to be a dick; I'm actually interested in how you define each respective genre. I think something like Judas Priest when I think of Heavy metal, and Sabbath comes across more doomy in my mind.

But Sabbath has tons of songs that come across as more just plain Heavy Metal to me. Like Paranoid or Faeries wear Boots or Supernaut
#32
True, so I'm wondering where the dividing line between the two genres is? Can a Doom band not play a more upbeat song? At what point do you fall into a certain category? I think it's entirely possible that Sabbath can be both, or that they were a heavy metal band with some doom tendencies.

Edit: I also think it is possible that Sabbath laid some of the foundation for Doom without actually playing Doom themselves. Perhaps this is the case. It's just interesting to me though because Sabbath seems so important to the Doom movement in my opinion.
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
Last edited by The Virtuoso at Jun 17, 2014,
#33
I think it's possible for Doom bands to do upbeat, or at least uplifting music, look at While Heaven Wept's first couple of albums, or Solstice. Or many of the more epic doom bands, a lot have an empowering optimistic vibe.

I reckon Sabbath are better labelled Proto-Doom. In the way Bathory, Hellhammer et al are better labeled Proto Black metal. Whilst perhaps not being doom in themselves, they kind of laid down the groundwork, and other bands took what they started and built on it and established a genre in its own right.
#34
It's often the case that a band will have many characteristics of a subgenre that it spawned. It may even be a fully realized piece of said subgenre. Really it's just a moot point. I would consider a lot of Sabbath 'doom metal'. The name possibly comes from their song 'Hand of doom' iirc.

That being said, I don't really think doom metal can be an actual subgenre of metal beyond describing an aesthetic, same with 'groove' or 'viking' or whatever.
#35
Quote by AnnihiSlateR
I think it's possible for Doom bands to do upbeat, or at least uplifting music, look at While Heaven Wept's first couple of albums, or Solstice. Or many of the more epic doom bands, a lot have an empowering optimistic vibe.

I reckon Sabbath are better labelled Proto-Doom. In the way Bathory, Hellhammer et al are better labeled Proto Black metal. Whilst perhaps not being doom in themselves, they kind of laid down the groundwork, and other bands took what they started and built on it and established a genre in its own right.


Yeah, I think you're right Slate. When I think of something like Bathory's S/T. It's more or less thrash, but with a little something extra, and it was that extra something that spawned into the blackest of black metal.

Quote by beadhangingOne
It's often the case that a band will have many characteristics of a subgenre that it spawned. It may even be a fully realized piece of said subgenre. Really it's just a moot point. I would consider a lot of Sabbath 'doom metal'. The name possibly comes from their song 'Hand of doom' iirc.

That being said, I don't really think doom metal can be an actual subgenre of metal beyond describing an aesthetic, same with 'groove' or 'viking' or whatever.


Sure, I think you and Slate are right, but do you really not consider doom to be an actual subgenre of metal? Why not?

I agree with you about viking metal. It's more often than not a term used to describe melodic death metal (another term I don't think constitutes a legitimate subgenre, but more of a stylistic approach to writing death metal) or folk metal bands who write about Nordic themes. I usually only consider Doom, Black, Thrash/Speed, Death, Heavy, Power, and Folk metal to be actual subgenres in the metal genre.

Edit: I might actually take Folk metal out and just say it's an offshoot of Black metal, or occasionally one of Power metal.
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
Last edited by The Virtuoso at Jun 17, 2014,
#36
Quote by The Virtuoso

Sure, I think you and Slate are right, but do you really not consider doom to be an actual subgenre of metal? Why not?


Basically, what I'm asking is, has doom metal speciated enough from heavy metal, that you cannot call it heavy metal anymore? Some of the more atmospheric doom bands are hard to pin down as purely heavy, it's true. Certainly death metal and black metal are far enough apart in terms of euclidean distance. I like to use the least amount of genres possible, keeps things simple.

Quote by The Virtuoso
I usually only consider Doom, Black, Thrash/Speed, Death, Heavy, Power, and Folk metal to be actual subgenres in the metal genre.

Edit: I might actually take Folk metal out and just say it's an offshoot of Black metal, or occasionally one of Power metal.


Folk is probably power/heavy, though it can be black. Power itself is heavy/speed, doom is basically heavy. The ones I've bolded I consider speciated enough from each other that one could not feasibly be mistaken for the other, or categorized as such. (with several exceptions*)

Some people have crossover as it's own genre, but it's thrash to me, metaphysically anyway.

*EDIT: These bands tend to be proverbial 'archeopteryx' one foot in one door the other evolving into another genre. ie Possessed, Bathory
Last edited by beadhangingOne at Jun 17, 2014,
#37
I feel like the bands most deserving of the doom moniker would be the ones commonly referred to as funeral doom, or death/doom in the case of diSEMBOWELMENT. Generally much more removed from death metal or heavy metal than the bands typically referred to as simply doom metal. My take on it anyway.

EDIT: Really though, I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with how subgenres are commonly done. As long as they are applied consistently so folks can listen to (or avoid) what they like/don't like.
last.fm
"the waves have now a redder glow..."
Last edited by RiffYourFaceOff at Jun 17, 2014,
#39
Quote by RiffYourFaceOff
I feel like the bands most deserving of the doom moniker would be the ones commonly referred to as funeral doom, or death/doom in the case of diSEMBOWELMENT. Generally much more removed from death metal or heavy metal than the bands typically referred to as simply doom metal. My take on it anyway.

EDIT: Really though, I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with how subgenres are commonly done. As long as they are applied consistently so folks can listen to (or avoid) what they like/don't like.

I was just getting ready to make the argument in terms of death/doom and funeral.

Great minds, etc
HESSIAN HAREM
FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE HESSIAN CULTURE. STAY TRUE.
#40
Quote by romencer17
if you're trying to say it's wrong to call Sabbath heavy metal then either you or I are confused.


What constitutes a band's genre of music in all honesty is pretty subjective. Many believe that Sabbath is metal, when others don't. To me, they laid the foundation for what metal and more specifically doom metal is, but they themselves are more in line with hard rock. Tony Iomi himself has said that they never really saw themselves as heavy metal, but more hard/heavy rock.

To me that's the same as Meshuggah, they laid the foundation for what would become djent, but don't really fit into the genre themselves.
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