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#2
In my experience, a lot of the sweet 5150 sound comes from the volume making the speakers really push a lot of air around. Probably true for most amps...

Depending on how low you intend to go, that may be missing. An overdrive in front will help to some extent, but don't expect any miracles. It won't make up for that missing sound from increased volume.

Suggestions: Bad Monkey, Green Rhino MKII, any used Tubescreamer variant. Buy used, they go cheap.

Wanting to play at low volume and needing a "volume booster" to do it sounds a bit funny to me.
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Last edited by lemurflames at Jun 16, 2014,
#3
Just get a Tubescreamer or a Boss sd-1. Any overdrive pedal, really, and no need to get an expensive one -- you're just going to use it to boost your already overdriven tone.

This will make it sound more like a cranked 6505, without being cranked. Really, I think it's a little blown out of proportion how much better they sound turned up. I run mine at about "1" pretty often through a 412 cab and it still sounds excellent to my ears. It's not that loud on "1" -- you could get away with it in an apartment I'd think. On "2" and beyond the speakers start pushing a great deal more air and you can feel those palm mutes in your gut.
An eq pedal in the loop will also make a world of difference both loud and quiet. The thing to remember is that an EQ setting for loud playing is not necessarily the same as what would be ideal for quiet playing.
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#4
I've seen some people crank the piss out of the preamp, put a volume pedal in the fx loop, and use the volume pedal to lower the output of the preamp. You'd get all the glory of a cranked preamp at a lower volume.
Last edited by cheesefries at Jun 16, 2014,
#5
Quote by cheesefries
I've seen some people crank the piss out of the preamp, put a volume pedal in the fx loop, and use the volume pedal to lower the output of the preamp. You'd get all the glory of a cranked preamp at a lower volume.
That's what the master volume does.

I think here the correct answer is, "you need a new home."
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#7
Quote by cheesefries
I've seen some people crank the piss out of the preamp, put a volume pedal in the fx loop, and use the volume pedal to lower the output of the preamp. You'd get all the glory of a cranked preamp at a lower volume.



will the mxr boost/line driver pedal work as a volume pedal? any suggestions for a volume pedal?
#8
I vote new home!

The answer here is to turn up your volume just enough to sound good but with as little noise as possible escaping that room. It just won't ever sound the way you have in your mind without getting those speakers blasting.
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#9
Sound proofed rooms are good. Because if you go to that much effort, you'll tune the room with dampening panels too. Room within a room - that's the trick. Don't forget the floor. And two doors. Mount them to both sides of the door jam.
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#10
Quote by lemurflames
I vote new home!

The answer here is to turn up your volume just enough to sound good but with as little noise as possible escaping that room. It just won't ever sound the way you have in your mind without getting those speakers blasting.



hell... i can play loud as hell at home. the question is, do you want to go deaf before your 50 years old? these amps are super loud. especially with a 4X12 cab loaded with V30's! seriously... who in their right mind plays their 5150's at volume 3.5 for 30 minutes to an hour? trust me... i love loud. 5150 loud is like 2 F-16's going sonic boom below 500ft. i just want good saturation at lower volume. i get decent tone at lower volume but nothing like really pushing my tubes at higher volume. just saying
#11
It doesn't need to be loud before it sounds awesome. I have a 5150 III and a 5150 212. Between 0.5 and 1 on the volume is when they sound best to me without punishing my hearing. Before that, the speakers aren't doing their job. Also, ear plugs. Get 'em.

If it's saturation you are after, put an OD in front and tweak till you're happy. If you want tube saturation, I think maybe you bought the wrong amp?
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#13
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#14
This is probably the first and only time I'll ever get to say this, but don't listen to Cath.

I've owned a 5150 and a 6505. The secret to using them in the home is to have a volume cut in the loop. Their post gain pots have the same problem as some Fenders, where they just suck complete ass, then have a huge volume jump, at a point too loud for real quiet playing. A volume cut in the loop (most easiest gotten from an EQ since you want one there anyway) basically just tames the post gain control, so you can actually crank your post gain to 1 or 2, cut your EQ pedal volume down to compensate where you need to be, and enjoy. The amp sounds 1000X better at home (talking/quiet TV) volumes this way.

Just remember that if you're playing with a drummer you may need to bring the EQ pedal volume up a bit, cause you can (I've done this accidentally way too many times) just cook your poweramp and get no real results. I'm talking having the post gain on 7 or 8. Anyone who has owned a 6505 knows that that is already far, far beyond seriously ear damaging volumes.
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#15
^^Interesting. I've tried the method of lowering my EQ pedal volume in the loop, but I've never turned the post gain up that high (7 or 8). One would need to take care not to bump the volume slider back up with the post gain set that high...people might die.
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#16
Some volume pots can suck tone when they are barely turned up at all. Having two volume controls can help to fix that.

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#18
Quote by KailM
^^Interesting. I've tried the method of lowering my EQ pedal volume in the loop, but I've never turned the post gain up that high (7 or 8). One would need to take care not to bump the volume slider back up with the post gain set that high...people might die.


...Yep.



Happened once. Never again.
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#19
Quote by KailM
^^Interesting. I've tried the method of lowering my EQ pedal volume in the loop, but I've never turned the post gain up that high (7 or 8). One would need to take care not to bump the volume slider back up with the post gain set that high...people might die.

I had the volume maxed on the green channel of my 5150 III to get the best possible clean I could and I switched over to the blue channel, forgetting they share EQs.

I couldn't stop shaking... Probably one of the most frightening, unexpected events I've experienced in recent times.

Channel switch responsibly.
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#20
Quote by KailM
Just get a Tubescreamer or a Boss sd-1. Any overdrive pedal, really, and no need to get an expensive one -- you're just going to use it to boost your already overdriven tone.


+1. I'd get something which is ts or sd1-based, though. But yeah, agreed. EDIT: should've read the thread before posting
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Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jun 16, 2014,
#22
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
what if you turned the post gain to max and the eq volume at 0.00000000000000001? i dont see how capacitors and diodes can block off the power of a 5150. it will blow that pedal all to hell and back lol
#24
Well really what you want to do is turn it up to like 4 or 5, then use your EQ to tame the beast. You are pretty much giving yourself a second master volume with a more effective taper than what the knob on the amp gives you. As Cath explained, you still aren't driving your power tubes any harder, but you now have more precise control over your volume.
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#25
Quote by Count Slut
what if you turned the post gain to max and the eq volume at 0.00000000000000001? i dont see how capacitors and diodes can block off the power of a 5150. it will blow that pedal all to hell and back lol

Because the FX loop is before the power section.
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#26
If you're playing in the house, don't turn it up to 4 or 5. Like I said, push it to 1 or 2. You're right. The volume cut can only do so much. A 6505 is and will always be a 6505.

oneblackened is also correct - the FX loop is before the power section in the chain. You're not using an attenuator, the pedal never sees the amplification power. That happens after the volume cut. So when you understand that, you understand that there is only so much that you can do. It can cut it significantly, but don't expect to make a purring kitty out of the 6505 cranked up past 5. It won't really happen.

Also keep in mind that the harder you run your power section, your tube life will last that much shorter. Another good reason to keep it reasonable around 2 on the post gain.
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#27
^ surely if you're cutting it in the fx loop, that'll prevent it from hitting the power tubes full whack? it's only attenuators which tax the power tubes as much as cranking the thing, I think.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
^ exactly the point I made in my last post. You are just getting a better volume knob, which is still useful as the 6505s taper is pretty lousy, but you aren't driving the tubes any harder.
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#31
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ surely if you're cutting it in the fx loop, that'll prevent it from hitting the power tubes full whack? it's only attenuators which tax the power tubes as much as cranking the thing, I think.


That's an interesting point, and I must admit that I'm not exactly sure how tubes die. I've always been under the impression that cranking your power section higher will kill tubes faster - regardless of what's going on in the preamp. I hadn't considered that the power section may not be working at flat rates independent from the signal from the preamp.
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#33
People recommend an attenuator for more manageable low volume playing, but that isn't its purpose. Its purpose is to get an amp closer to power tube saturation without all the extra volume.

A 5150 doesn't get its gain from power tubes, though. Thats why its pointless and why "wattage" knobs on some modern high gain amps are kinda ****in stupid. Use the damn volume knob.
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#34
Quote by Offworld92
That's an interesting point, and I must admit that I'm not exactly sure how tubes die. I've always been under the impression that cranking your power section higher will kill tubes faster - regardless of what's going on in the preamp. I hadn't considered that the power section may not be working at flat rates independent from the signal from the preamp.
How hard the power amp is working is totally dependent on what you are feeding into it. All of your volume/gain controls are in the preamp. So ................ follow the bouncing ball.
I think I had this guy pegged with the scared kitty picture. It has nothing to do with the MV taper at all like you thought. I agree with you on your point regarding the taper but that's not we are looking at here.
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#35
when i get back in town... im going to max out pre and post gain and then... 0.000000001% eq volume. lets see which burns up first. amp or pedal!
#36
^^Maybe the 6505+ 112 is different from the other versions, but I tried that yesterday and heard zero noticeable difference in tone.

Actually, I turned my MXR 10-band's volume slider to its lowest setting (-12db), and left the pedal's gain on zero. Then I turned my amp's post gain up slowly. At "3" it was already getting quite loud again, but not ridiculous. It was at a decent practicing volume. At 4-5 it was very loud again. Running the post gain at 8 or 9 would certainly be beyond gig volume, even with the EQ pedal zero'd. Again, I could hear no difference in tone compared to running the MXR's volume slider at 0 and setting the post gain to 2 (where it otherwise starts to sound its best). There is no point to doing this, other than the EQ pedal's volume slider is less sensitive than the amp's post gain knob.


I maintain that the best thing you can do is just run an OD boost up front to "take the blanket" off the amp at low volumes. Other than that, all I can say is to tell your neighbors to eff off and then turn it up LOUDER.
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Last edited by KailM at Jun 18, 2014,
#37
....... Neither. That's our point. You aren't driving the amp any harder, and you aren't going to burn up the pedal with the signal from the preamp. Just to reiterate: THIS METHOD WILL NOT DRIVE YOUR POWER TUBES MORE. WILL NOT. WON'T.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#38
Quote by dementiacaptain
....... Neither. That's our point. You aren't driving the amp any harder, and you aren't going to burn up the pedal with the signal from the preamp. Just to reiterate: THIS METHOD WILL NOT DRIVE YOUR POWER TUBES MORE. WILL NOT. WON'T.


Come on, Count Slut is obviously just being cheeky.

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#39
That's the thing, I honestly can't tell if he is or not...
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#40
Well... I hope he is being cheeky.

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