#1
Hi,

I'm a bassist, but I purchased a Peavey 5150 2x12 combo for my band. I re-tubed it with JJ tubes and thought all was well.

The other guitarist in my band bought a Peavey 6505+ 1x12 combo brand new and it sounds so much better than the 2x12 combo that I bought. It's fuller, louder, and definitely has more bass at all of the same settings and with the same guitar.

So now I'm scratching my head as to whats up with my amp. The 2x12 combo also has very annoying feedback issues even at low volume. Playing the 6505+ at the same volume (and louder), there is no feedback.

Shouldn't the 5150 2x12 be fuller and louder than the 6505+ 1x12?

Can anyone help?
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#2
Try changing out the tubes. The 5150 2x12 is older than the 6505 1x12.
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#3
I re-tubed it with JJ tubes
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#5
No, how do you do that?
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#6
5150 212 is fixed bias, IIRC.

What speakers are these amps using?

Try other tubes and swap around the preamp tubes. Wouldn't be surprising to get a bad tube that is new.
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#7
I already did that. I found that one of the tubes was much louder when tapped than the rest so I pulled it and installed another one.

They are both stock speakers as far as I know.
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Last edited by c3powil at Jun 16, 2014,
#8
You could just like the 6505+ better. It's a bit hard to diagnose without actually hearing the differences ourselves.

Also keep in mind (AFAIK! Someone please correct me if this isn't right) that the 5150 212 is not *exactly* a 5150 - the circuit or design is slightly different, and, AFAIK, the 212 is a bit tamer than a regular 5150/6505.

I don't think that would account for the large difference you are describing, however.


How loud are you running them?

Does anyone know if the 212 and + 112 have the same power sections? I'm inclined to doubt it given the cost difference.
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#9
I think I found the problem

I tried switching around the valves until it was just right. I believe I had the phase inverter slot was missing it's balanced tube.

They still sound different. The 6505+ has a more modern metal throaty sound. The 5150 is more of a classic rock or thrash metal sounding amp.
...it was bright as the sun, but with ten times the heat
Last edited by c3powil at Jun 16, 2014,
#10
^ Pretty much. The + is more of a "ready to go out of the box" sound. The 5150/6505 is like the JCM800 - you hear it on a ton of metal recordings, but you have to actually play it in real life to realize that these amps are actually not that high gain (in terms of today's metal). Not like you hear.

But running at a real good volume, and boosted with an OD, a 6505 will swallow a + whole.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#11
Quote by Offworld92
You could just like the 6505+ better. It's a bit hard to diagnose without actually hearing the differences ourselves.

Also keep in mind (AFAIK! Someone please correct me if this isn't right) that the 5150 212 is not *exactly* a 5150 - the circuit or design is slightly different, and, AFAIK, the 212 is a bit tamer than a regular 5150/6505.

I don't think that would account for the large difference you are describing, however.


How loud are you running them?

Does anyone know if the 212 and + 112 have the same power sections? I'm inclined to doubt it given the cost difference.
I do believe you are correct that the 5150 212 isn't exactly like the 5150 head. But we could both be wrong...

I've seen some people saying the 5150 212 Lead channel is similar to a 5150II/6505+ Lead channel.

What exactly that means, I have no clue. Haven't played a + or II.

Maybe we'll look into this more someday for fun. Find out what all the differences are between the heads and combos. Someone out there knows.

Gotta get my 5150 212 fixed someday.
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#12
I had the tube positions backwards. I thought that It was from left to right, not right to left.


derp
...it was bright as the sun, but with ten times the heat
#13
Quote by Offworld92
^ Pretty much. The + is more of a "ready to go out of the box" sound. The 5150/6505 is like the JCM800 - you hear it on a ton of metal recordings, but you have to actually play it in real life to realize that these amps are actually not that high gain (in terms of today's metal). Not like you hear.

But running at a real good volume, and boosted with an OD, a 6505 will swallow a + whole.


doesn't a 6505 actually have slightly more gain than a 6505+?

either of the ones i tried had absolutely shitloads of preamp gain, IIRC.

I could be wrong but i was under the impression that balanced PIs were snake oil, as well.
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#14
^ it's really only the perception that they have more gain, really they are both so obnoxiously distorted. I think people think the + has less preamp gain just because of the tamer nature of it. I think Offworlds point is that the + is more compressed and suited towards modern metal guitar tone right out of the box, whereas the original is a bit more raw.

I like them both, but they definitely sound different.
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#15
Can you try unplugging the 5150 from its 2x12 internal speakers and plug it into the 6505+ speaker (unplug the 6505+ as well and make sure it is powered down and check the ohm setting on tge 5150 since you will now use 1 speaker). Keep the settings the same and see if that is still a big difference.

Also try messing with the fx loop on/off. Ive never heard or witnessed the occurance, but ive seen people say thay the fx loop active/inactive makes a difference in sound
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#16
I think something is still wrong with the amp. That amp should blow your balls off. I own the 6505+112 (converted to a head) and I've also played the 5150 212 combo (it was a 6505 212 combo, but they are IDENTICAL internally).

The 212 I played had just as much "balls" as my 6505 112. It sounded slightly different but not significant after you consider my entire rig (EQ pedal, TS9, 412 cab, etc.). If anything, the older 5150s are touted as having even more b00tz tendencies than the 6505+, a little more raw and pummeling in the low-end. In my experience they just weren't that different...

TS, did you replace your power tubes as well? Are they both glowing? I've had one case where one of my power tubes was burnt out but the amp still worked -- it just didn't have the balls it normally has.

Preamp tubes affect your tone more on that amp, but don't overlook power tubes. I ran a pair of JJ 6L6s for two years, then finally just replaced them this year (the old ones are still good). It is AMAZING how much better it sounds with the new ones! Definitely more punch, more low-end grunt, clearer mids and highs -- just better in every way.
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#17
There are a few differences between the 5150 combo and head I believe.

The 5150 212 combo is 50W with only 2 power tubes vs. the 100W and 4 power tubes of the head.

The 5150 212 combo is biased warmer than the head.

The 5150 212 combo has reverb on board and is foot switchable. I'm not sure if the head has reverb built in (don't think it does) and the head foot switch controls the FX loop I believe.

The 5150/6505 has 5 pre-amp tubes and the 6505+ has 6. The 5150/6505 is more high mid focused and the 6505+ is more low mid focused.
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#18
Yea I did new power tubes as well. Both JJ 6l6, they are working properly.

Part of it is the settings. I had to dial up the "resonance" to get more bass on the 5150, but once I did, it really punched.

I can't say this is true for all amps, but as for the 5150 combo, it needs a balanced tube in that V4. Before I switched them around the amp was lacking low end and was screaming with feedback at low volumes any time the gain was above 6.
...it was bright as the sun, but with ten times the heat
#19
The 5150 2x12 is 8identical preamp circuit to the 5150/6505 head but it has a 50 watt power section.

The 6505+ 1x12 has a slightly different preamp design than the 5150II/6505+ heads

Yes the 5150 has a more aggressive tone than the 5150II/6505+

Because of it's age. the 5150 combo may need a cap job and this might be the difference your hearing
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#20
I may take it in and have it checked out, but for now I'm pretty happy with the changes the tube swapping made.
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#21
Quote by dementiacaptain
^ it's really only the perception that they have more gain, really they are both so obnoxiously distorted. I think people think the + has less preamp gain just because of the tamer nature of it. I think Offworlds point is that the + is more compressed and suited towards modern metal guitar tone right out of the box, whereas the original is a bit more raw.

I like them both, but they definitely sound different.


Yeah, exactly this. The 6505 I had (not Plus) was definitely tame (in terms of modern 2010s metal) without a boost in front. It's like thrash/heavy metal on it's own. The extra compression of the Plus really just gets you in that territory on its own.
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Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#22
Quote by dementiacaptain
^ it's really only the perception that they have more gain, really they are both so obnoxiously distorted. I think people think the + has less preamp gain just because of the tamer nature of it. I think Offworlds point is that the + is more compressed and suited towards modern metal guitar tone right out of the box, whereas the original is a bit more raw.

I like them both, but they definitely sound different.


yeah possibly. as you said, they both have tons of gain. I'm not sure i've ever tried them head to head so
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?