#1
Hi first of all let me confess I have very little knowledge about amps so I hope someone can help me out here. I am planing to buy valve amp at least 100w because I read that's the minimum for venues. Budget is about 500 pounds. I am wondering does most venues provide with cabinets if I buy an amp head ( to save trouble transporting the cabinet) and even if they do what are the rules what to connect to what. For instance if I buy Marshall MA Series MA100H 100W WHAT can I connect it to ? Also cant understand why would Blackstar HT-5RH 5w Tube Head be almost the same price if there so massive difference in watts wtf? And then another question can I record into computer without cabinet but just with amp head?
Last edited by chrisBLJAD at Jun 17, 2014,
#2
Quote by chrisBLJAD
Hi first of all let me confess I have very little knowledge about amps so I hope someone can help me out here. I am planing to buy valve amp at least 100w because I read that's the minimum for venues. Budget is about 500 pounds. I am wondering does most venues provide with cabinets if I buy an amp head ( to save trouble transporting the cabinet) and even if they do what are the rules what to connect to what. For instance if I buy Marshall MA Series MA100H 100W WHAT can I connect it to ? Also cant understand why would Blackstar HT-5RH 5w Tube Head be almost the same price if there so massive difference in watts wtf? And then another question can I record into computer without cabinet but just with amp head?


First of all no, 100w is not the minimum for venues. Im assuming you read that on a toilet wall cos no respecatble publication would write that

It depends if we're talking solid state or tube amps. On the whole, tube amps are louder. A lot louder.

If youre using a tube amp you could easily do small to medium gigs with a 15w-20w amp. Maybe even less if its mic'd up

You would connect an amp head to a speaker cabinet

The reason the Blackstar is the same price as the Marshall is because the Marshall is solid state (seen by many as "bad") whereas the Blackstar is tube (seen by many as "good") EDIT: my mistake, the Marshall ISNT a solid state. In that case i can only assume its so cheap cos its complete crap

If you give us an idea as to genre we might be able to recommend some amps for you although you might want to bear in mind some of your budget will need to go to a speaker cab before you can use your amp
Last edited by LivinJoke84 at Jun 17, 2014,
#3
Quote by chrisBLJAD
1. I am planing to buy valve amp at least 100w because I read that's the minimum for venues.
2. I am wondering does most venues provide with cabinets if I buy an amp head ( to save trouble transporting the cabinet) and even if they do what are the rules what to connect to what.
3. For instance if I buy Marshall MA Series MA100H 100W WHAT can I connect it to?
4. Also cant understand why would Blackstar HT-5RH 5w Tube Head be almost the same price if there so massive difference in watts wtf?
5. And then another question can I record into computer without cabinet but just with amp head?
1. you read wrong stuff.
First of all, there's no minimum as:
-venues' sizes greatly vary
-power amp ratings in guitar amps are made up

Most venues will also provide a PA system, where PA stands for public address, which is a series of devices made to amplify the sound coming from your gear and deliver it to the public.
Why using that instead of a bigger guitar amps?
-PA systems are bigger
-PA systems are more versatile
-PA systems have a better sound dispersion

They also don't make guitar amps that big.

Guitar amps will either be too loud for small venues or too small for big venues.
There is no place in which a guitar amp alone will sound good in a band environment without a PA system.
People will tell you these places exist, and that's because their amp is loud enough to be heard in the venue, but that doesn't mean it will sound good.
That usually means the first two to five rows' ears will hurt, the next two to five rows will hear stuff just right, and the rest will hear a muddy mess.

2. in my experience, they don't.
I haven't seen a single venue doing that.
If you're playing with another band they may have a cab and they may let you use it, but that's not stuff I would count on.

Venues do have PA systems in general, and a 1w amp through a PA system could sound louder than a 100w amp on its own if the PA system is powerful enough.

3. with tube amps, you connect something of a certain impedance to a load of the same impedance.
In short, your amp will have 4ohm, 8ohm and 16ohm outputs if it has a tube power section, and you will have a cab with either 4ohm, 8ohm or 16ohm inputs, or any combination of them.
You find the "mono" setting on the cab and you connect the Xohm exit of the amp to the Xohm input of the cab.

4. why does a 458 cost more than a FIAT freemont even if it's smaller?
Well you know, negligible stuff...

That blackstar in particular is highly overpriced, and the ma is old and it doesn't have a good reputation, so that compensate a bit for the prices.
Let's use a stronger comparison instead:
A marshall MG100HDFX costs something like $500 iirc, while a two rock studio pro 22 costs about $2000 - why is that an amp about 1/4 as powerful costs about 4 times as the marshall?

Well, y' know, the two rock sounds damn good and the marshall sounds plain bad.
Also, again, power ratings in this field are made up 9 times out of 8, so through the same speakers the two rock might as well be louder than that marshall there.

So, the lesson here is, buy an amp for its features and not for its size, 'cause you're likely not to be able to use the advantages of a 100w amp nor the ones of a 5w amp.

Oh, and to return to your comparison, both of these amps sound bad, don't get either.
Also don't get any small blackstar if you want an all tube amp - the advertisement suggests they are but they aren't.

5. no you can't.
You'd need an attenuator and an audio interface.
Or just the audio interface plus a couple fx processors to run on your computer.
You don't wanna use guitar amps to record guitar if you don't have at least decent mic's and you're able to properly record stuff.

Edit: hoi, the marshall MA's aren't solid state amps AFAIK.
Quote by LivingJoke84
It depends if we're talking solid state or tube amps. On the whole, tube amps are louder. A lot louder.
Not even.
That's a misconception created by the very generous rating given to solid state guitar amps which are even more generous than the ones given to tube amps, and the fact that people turning up tube amps don't hear/mind power section distortion, while it's kinda hard not to hear power section distortion when you have a transistor power amp.
Name's Luca.

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Last edited by Spambot_2 at Jun 17, 2014,
#4
Well the style is something between grunge and metal. If I am using PA system does it matter what cabinet I have or it's just amp head what will go through it?
#5
If you just wanna go through a PA system (you seem to want to avoid getting a speaker cab for some reason) just get a Pod HD or similar

There are a few amp heads that have line outs but generally they dont. One can only generalise because theyre all so different

Youll be able to get a decent 2x12 cab and a decent amp head for 500 knicker
Last edited by LivinJoke84 at Jun 17, 2014,
#6
jet city (either the 50 or 100 watt heads) and harley benton g212vintage on thomann

yeah i say that in every thread

still, hard to beat for the price and suitable for the tones you want (I think... depends on exactly what you mean by "something between grunge and metal")
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#7
Quote by LivinJoke84
(you seem to want to avoid getting a speaker cab for some reason)


I don't necessarily want to go without cabinet just thinking if the cabinet doesn't matter when using PA maybe spend more on head and less on cabinet? So I can use cabinet for practicing at home.

What do you think about combos? Is it better to get combo or buy head + cab. I mean what is more valuable for the money?
#8
Combos are good. Its just some people prefer being able to use different heads with different cabs and/or buy and sell them seperately. It leads to a little more versatility.

I know what you mean about not wanting to cart a cab around though, i try to avoid doing so with mine whenever possible. Venues never seem to provide guitar cabs (but often provide bass cabs????) but you can usually negotiate a gear swap with any other bands on the bill
#9
Quote by chrisBLJAD
I don't necessarily want to go without cabinet just thinking if the cabinet doesn't matter when using PA maybe spend more on head and less on cabinet? So I can use cabinet for practicing at home.
The amp's more important, but the cab's important in any case since your sound would pass through the cabinet before going to the PA system.
Quote by chrisBLJAD
What do you think about combos? Is it better to get combo or buy head + cab. I mean what is more valuable for the money?
It depends on what you want to do.

Generally, combos are cheaper, but if you have a stack you have more possibilities.
Like using more heads with the same cab or more cabs with the same head, and not having to carry a shit ton of weight in one trip only.

Would you be gigging with it?
How much and in what environments?
Would you be reharsing with it?
Would you play at home with it?

In any case, up for the jet city because that IS a very nice deal.
Also check out the peavy vypyr tube 60 because it has funny lights and effects.
Name's Luca.

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Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#10
Tnx a lot guys you have helped a lot. Just few more questions:
1. What's the difference between Harley Benton G212 and Harley Benton G212 vintage?
2. Could I buy 50 watt head for gigging since I understand that 100w won't be used anyway and also buy 20 watt amp head for home practice and use 212 speakers for both of them? Because I continued my research that 50w will be way to loud to practice at home even on 1.
Last edited by chrisBLJAD at Jun 18, 2014,
#11
1. The former has cheapo Harley Benton speakers in. The latter has Celestion V30s in which if you bought two of them seperatly it would come to the same price as the cab. The G212 Vintage is a massive bargain as you are essentially buying two speakers and getting the cab for free
2. Yep. You could use the same speaker cab for both amps. 50w can be used at home but you wont be able to crank it. Probably wont be able to take it past 2 on the volume. If you want dirt youd have to use a pedal. Generally, amps sound better when they are turned up. If you want an amp for home use unless you live in a mansion in the middle of nowhere i dare say 20w would be WAY too loud. I live in an average 3 bed semi and if i turn my 5w amp up to half way there will not be a room in the house where you cannot hear it.

Just so you know, Watts does not equal volume, its more a matter of clean headroom (i.e the volume you can turn the amp up to before natural overdrive begins to occur)

A 50w is NOT twice as loud as a 25w amp. Generally speaking an amp has to be TEN TIMES the wattage to be twice as loud e.g a 50w amp is twice as loud as a 5w amp. Seems daft but its true. Trust me, 5w tube amps are LOUD if you crank them up
#12
Quote by LivinJoke84
A 50w is NOT twice as loud as a 25w amp. Generally speaking an amp has to be TEN TIMES the wattage to be twice as loud e.g a 50w amp is twice as loud as a 5w amp. Seems daft but its true. Trust me, 5w tube amps are LOUD if you crank them up
That's all theory though, since ratings in guitar power amps are made up.
You'll find an AC30cc2 is louder than a quarter of the 100w amps you see around for example.

If you're gonna use a PA system anyway, just get the 20w amp and be done with it.
The 50w one would be useful if you wanted really clean cleans at reharsal volumes.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#13
Quote by chrisBLJAD
Tnx a lot guys you have helped a lot. Just few more questions:
1. What's the difference between Harley Benton G212 and Harley Benton G212 vintage?
2. Could I buy 50 watt head for gigging since I understand that 100w won't be used anyway and also buy 20 watt amp head for home practice and use 212 speakers for both of them? Because I continued my research that 50w will be way to loud to practice at home even on 1.


1: As LivinJoke84 correctly said, the Vintage is the super-bargain and the one you want, basically. It's good to go out of the box. The g212 needs to have its speakers swapped- fine if you have plenty of spare money or know you don't like vintage 30s (or that they don't suit your amp), but if you're trying to maximise your bang for the buck the g212 vintage is the one to go for.

2: How quietly do you have to play at home? I play the jet city 50 watt head at home with the volume on 1. I don't share any walls with neighbours, though (but I do live in a town in a housing estate/development and my neighbours are only a few metres away).

As livinjoke84 rightly said, you won't be able to crank the 20 watter at home either. And if you're ok with preamp distortion the 50 watt will do it just as well as the 20 watter. As long as you don't have to play at superlow whisper volume levels- and if you do, the 20 watter will be too loud, too.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
i am planning to buy a hartke gt60 60 watt amp head and laney irt 1x12 cabinet...is it a good choice??
or i should buy any other cabinet?? please reply
#15
Damn don't necrobump threads for no reason

If you want advices about a new amp, have a look at the resources thread in this section, go to the second post, and make a new thread following these directions.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.