#1
Hey there, pit. I'm starting a project and have something I want your thoughts on.

I want to do a series of blogs/articles about the nature of author intention when it comes to the enjoyment of the arts, but I need more examples, so I wanted to ask you guys. Who can give me some examples of either an author or artist you are a fan of who is associated with what you find to be a morally repugnant act or world view (examples for me included Wagner, Orson Scott Card, or Chuck Berry)? Or, give me a work of art (song, movie, visual art, video game) that directly espouses a moral or philosophy that you disagree with, but enjoy as a work of art anyway (examples for me include the original Red Dawn, The Dark Knight Returns, and the aggressively apocalyptic music of late-period Johnny Cash). I really want some thoughts on the topic before I dive into what threatens to be a 10,000+ word endeavor.


tl;dr Name things you like, by creators you strongly disagree with on important things.
#3
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That's shockingly one I didn't even think of. Perfect example! Thanks.
#4
I dig Megadeth but Dave Mustaine is a total nutcase.

I detest homphobia but Chic-Fil-A makes fast food that's actually enjoyable to eat.

There's plenty I disagree with Johnny Cash about, but few are as badass as the Man in Black was.

Birth of a Nation is a stupid piece of KKK propaganda, and Triumph of the Will is a terrifying piece of Nazi propaganda, but from a production and cinematography perspective, they're both masterpieces, especially with the technology of the era.
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Last edited by necrosis1193 at Jun 18, 2014,
#5
i think roland barthes is a particularly vile individual but "the death of the author" is great
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#6
Gary Glitter had that one pretty good song that they play at sporting events that not many people know was written by a pedophile.

Really, most of the worlds greatest artists, thinkers and doers ranged from complete assholes to utterly horrible human beings. It should be noted that it doesn't go the other way. Being an asshole isn't requisite or even a step towards greatness. If that were the case, Kanye West would've at least done something worthwhile by now.

EDIT: ALSO, G.G. Allin was a deliberately repulsive individual, and while I think his music is just okay, I find his public persona to be utterly fascinating. I'm not 100% sure it would fit what you're looking for TS, but go on youtube and search "GG Allin on Springer" Interesting stuff, and not too long before he died.

EDIT2: Found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LvZd_9aMU
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Last edited by snipelfritz at Jun 18, 2014,
#7
to be honest, if I'm aware that an artist is a piece of shit I have a hard time enjoying their work because I associate it with piece of shitness.
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#8
This is not really what you're looking for (in terms of "art") but even though Michael Savage's writing infuriates me I still read it
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#9
Caravaggio was a violent drunkard who walked about with a sword, used to get into many brawls for which he was constantly being arrested and locked up. He killed a young man named Ranuccio Tomassoni, apparently over a tennis game, then fled the jurisdiction of the authorities in Rome and moved to Naples, where, under the protection of the Colonna family (which was powerful in medieval and Renaissance Rome) he pretty much carried on as normal, drinking, brawling, being locked up, etc.

As a person, he was a vile and disgusting piece of trash, as an artist however he was one of the greatest to ever exist and I just cannot help but to greatly admire his work.
#10
How about Tim Lambesis? Not a fan of As I lay Crying or whatever, but Austrian Death machine were pretty fun. It's shame he's an asshole who tried to hire someone to murder his ex-wife.
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#11
Woody Allen
but i don't think this is what's normally meant by Intention when it comes to art
#12
Damn, TS, now you got me on another binge of reading about GG Allin. Seriously, look into that dude; he could be a fascinating case study.
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#13
Quote by snipelfritz
Gary Glitter had that one pretty good song that they play at sporting events that not many people know was written by a pedophile.


That must be only in America, everyone in Britain knows how vile he is.
#14
I dislike One Direction, but they covered Lamb of God and it was pretty funny to watch.
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#15
i find richard dawkins to be obnoxious with the atheism stuff, but his book "the greatest show on earth" is spectacular. i'm an atheist but i imagine if i was not i would still love that book.

the play 12 angry men was probably intended as a lesson to think critically. nowadays it's easier to interpret as a lesson in group think and homogenous juries. these two are not contradictory, but the author of 12 angry men could have never intended to teach a lesson about a concept yet to be invented

on the flip side, the play the importance of being ernest really captures some of my personal convictions.
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#16
That GG allin interview was interesting, never heard the guy speak before.

Michael Jackson is a big one, one of the most successful/talented/controversial pop figures in the past 40 years I'd say.
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#17
Quote by willT08

but i don't think this is what's normally meant by Intention when it comes to art

Yeah, this doesn't really have anything to do with intention, just whether or not you can get over the fact that an artist was an asshole enough to enjoy his work.
#18
I think System of a Down are awesome and some of their lyrics are quite profound in places, but I can't get behind the message of their song "Science." I"m a committed naturalist, so the song's disparagement of science because it doesn't account for spirituality or religious faith doesn't sit well with me. Science doesn't deal with "spirit" because it is defined as an immaterial/supernatural essence (whatever that means), and the immaterial/supernatural as a concept is, quite frankly, meaningless. Declaring that science has failed because it doesn't address a meaningless concept that's devoid of evidence while ignoring the benefits that science has given society (like our current quality of life in much of the developed world) is asinine in my opinion.
The musicianship in the song is good, but the lyrics don't mesh with my understanding of the world.
#19
Quote by Tonganation
I think System of a Down are awesome and some of their lyrics are quite profound in places, but I can't get behind the message of their song "Science." I"m a committed naturalist, so the song's disparagement of science because it doesn't account for spirituality or religious faith doesn't sit well with me. Science doesn't deal with "spirit" because it is defined as an immaterial/supernatural essence (whatever that means), and the immaterial/supernatural as a concept is, quite frankly, meaningless. Declaring that science has failed because it doesn't address a meaningless concept that's devoid of evidence while ignoring the benefits that science has given society (like our current quality of life in much of the developed world) is asinine in my opinion.
The musicianship in the song is good, but the lyrics don't mesh with my understanding of the world.

But... magnets. How do they work?
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#20
death grips sorta endorses all kinds of sick things, including extreme violence and rape, but i don't really mind because it's a "character" that's supposed to be vile doing those things. or at least that's how a lot of people see it.
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#21
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That GG allin interview was interesting, never heard the guy speak before.

Yeah, there's a whole documentary about him on YT, really interesting. He's a piece of shit, but for some sort deliberate purpose that's hard for a "normal" person to really comprehend.

This is a pretty cool idea in general TS.
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#22
John Lennon was kind of a shitty father later in his life, but I still like his music.
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#23
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John Lennon was kind of a shitty father later in his life, but I still like his music.

He hardly saw his kid at all in the 80's...
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#24
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He hardly saw his kid at all in the 80's...

"Kind of" covers many degrees
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