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#1
so yeah...

gonna add a new pedal to my chain.

can get only one at the moment...
and the choice is between TS808 or Blackstar HT series. (HT drive, HT dual or one of em)

so what would you suggest ??

im not looking for other pedals... have it locked on of these two.. but other
suggestions are appreciated, will check em out, but most likely wont make
the buying list.

right now i got a tiny marshall mg10cf...
and im quite happy with the base sound, just would like a bit more bite
and something that can clear out some mud off the tone, focusing it a tiny bit.

so yeah which one would you suggest and why ...

oh also, has anyone switched out the tubes on the blackstar HT series?
how did it sound after the switch?

thanks!
Last edited by The SoundGuy at Jun 18, 2014,
#2
I guess I'll go first...


new amp.

(I know that's not what you want to hear, I'm sorry)
tube screamer
#4
I'll just go second then and add that yeah, no use getting any pedal with a Marshall MG. It's just a plain bad idea. you can buy a better amp with the price of the pedal.
#5
Yeah man, new amp is the thing I would suggest. For the cost of the Dual you can get a used Valveking with a Bad Monkey or even a TS9 if you can find em cheap enough. Otherwise, raise your budget.
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#6
You probably shouldn't have a pedal worth more than your amp. Save, save, save, save and buy a decent amp. While nothing in life is certain, I'm pretty sure a ts808 into a mg10 is not going to make anything sound any better.
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#7
Totally agree with those above. Tube Screamers are amazing. I personally like boutique redos with tube screamer internals like JHS morning glory or the Jhs SuperDrive. If you are set on the 2 then tube screamer but I would suggest looking into boutique where I can get your personal custom sound for not much more money
#10
^ Agreed.

If you really can't thole, grab a bad monkey. £21, will do more or less the same thing as a ts808.
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#11
hey guys, yeah thanks for all the suggestions.. but yeah definitely not gonna buy a new amp.
been playing for almost a decade now and this is one of the practice amps that i actually like

would love to get a new amp like a 6505 or something, but its not gonna be anytime soon
considering the space and playing restrictions... no point in getting a tube amp if i cant crank the thing up and get the tubes in the sound... you get what i mean?

basically as i said im quite happy with the sound coming from the amp... just needs a tiny bit more bite on it.. so looking for something that can provide that
#12
Quote by The SoundGuy
so yeah...

gonna add a new pedal to my chain.

can get only one at the moment...
and the choice is between TS808 or Blackstar HT series. (HT drive, HT dual or one of em)

so what would you suggest ??

I like the TS808, but I like the T.Rex MAB and the Visual Sound ODs better.

The T.Rex MAB Overdrive is a good, pure OD with a lot of flexibility to it.

The Visual Sound Jekyll & Hyde combines TS-style OD with distortion. VS also makes the similarly lauded Route 66 (OD/Compression). Their discontinued Double Trouble combined the ODs of the J&H and the Route 66. Finally, their VS-XO takes the foundation the older, discontinued Double Trouble and improved it and re-released it.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JekyllHyde
http://visualsound.net/jekyll-hyde/
http://visualsound.net/route-66/
http://visualsound.net/double-trouble/
http://visualsound.net/vs-xo/

I like the Blackstar HT Dual, but I like the Red Witch Famulus better.

Similar to the Jekyll & Hyde, the Red Witch Famulus is an OD/Distortion pedal. But it has a few tones & tricks of its own that set it apart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRS0DfE5GQQ&sns=em
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Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Jun 19, 2014,
#13
Quote by dannyalcatraz
I like the TS808, but I like the T.Rex MAB and the Visual Sound ODs better.

The T.Rex MAB Overdrive is a good, pure OD with a lot of flexibility to it.

The Visual Sound Jekyll & Hyde combines TS-style OD with distortion. VS also makes the similarly lauded Route 66 (OD/Compression). Their discontinued Double Trouble combined the ODs of the J&H and the Route 66. Finally, their VS-XO takes the foundation the older, discontinued Double Trouble and improved it and re-released it.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JekyllHyde
http://visualsound.net/jekyll-hyde/
http://visualsound.net/route-66/
http://visualsound.net/double-trouble/
http://visualsound.net/vs-xo/

I like the Blackstar HT Dual, but I like the Red Witch Famulus better.

Similar to the Jekyll & Hyde, the Red Witch Famulus is an OD/Distortion pedal. But it has a few tones & tricks of its own that set it apart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRS0DfE5GQQ&sns=em



cheers man..
yeah had a look at the Jekyll and Hyde pedal a while back..
tried it out at a shop nearby... it sounded interesting..
but even when engaged i heard a clean tone along with the OD.

dont know what was the issue with it really.. had this same issue
at a different shop with an orange tiny terror... when i was on the
gain channel, i could still hear a clean sound play along with it..

but yeah going back to point the J&H pedal was quite cool..
but from what i remember it didnt "sing" as much..
but yeah gotta try it out again.. its been quite a while
#14
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#15
Quote by The SoundGuy

would love to get a new amp like a 6505 or something, but its not gonna be anytime soon
considering the space and playing restrictions... no point in getting a tube amp if i cant crank the thing up and get the tubes in the sound... you get what i mean?


The whole "cranking tube amps" thing is mostly bullshit. Amps sound better louder, period. It's not exclusively a tube thing. Regardless, tons of tube amps nowadays let you dial in preamp gain and a master volume together to get a great sound at low volumes.


I'm just looking at Guitar Center Used right now, $200-250 can get you a Blackheart Little Giant, a Peavey ValveKing, a VHT Special 6 Ultra (the amp I have), Peavey Deuce VT (great old hybrid), Carvin X60A (great Marshally combo with really good cleans too).

Lots of other stuff too.

A good pedal through your tiny amp will not make you anywhere near as happy as any of these amps (which can all be dialed in to sound good at whisper volumes, if you like. May need an EQ pedal to help, but still).
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#16
Quote by Offworld92
The whole "cranking tube amps" thing is mostly bullshit. Amps sound better louder, period. It's not exclusively a tube thing. Regardless, tons of tube amps nowadays let you dial in preamp gain and a master volume together to get a great sound at low volumes.


A good pedal through your tiny amp will not make you anywhere near as happy as any of these amps (which can all be dialed in to sound good at whisper volumes, if you like. May need an EQ pedal to help, but still).


i like tube overdrive.. not just preamp gain
and yes louder = better... but doesnt always mean better tone.

and seeing how i can get a better tone with any tiny practice amps then a lot of people with expensive amps, im happy with what i have...
(my tone comes from the way i play )


but yeah i used an eq before the amp, it took away the power too much..
used couple of other pedals, and they dont sit will with the amp

thats why im looking into these two pedals ive mentioned...


also i was reading somewhere that the ts9 is better with SS amps? is this true or can anyone bust this myth?? cheers!
Last edited by The SoundGuy at Jun 19, 2014,
#17
I think you should head to the nearest guitar shop. Take your MG with you.

While you are there, try the different pedals you mentioned with your amp but also try out some of the similarly priced tube amps and do a side by side comparison just to double check that you wouldn't be happier with the sound if you went for an amp upgrade.
#18
Quote by The SoundGuy
also i was reading somewhere that the ts9 is better with SS amps? is this true or can anyone bust this myth?? cheers!


homerbackingintohedge.gif
#19
Quote by The SoundGuy
i like tube overdrive.. not just preamp gain
and yes louder = better... but doesnt always mean better tone.

and seeing how i can get a better tone with any tiny practice amps then a lot of people with expensive amps, im happy with what i have...
(my tone comes from the way i play )


but yeah i used an eq before the amp, it took away the power too much..
used couple of other pedals, and they dont sit will with the amp

thats why im looking into these two pedals ive mentioned...


also i was reading somewhere that the ts9 is better with SS amps? is this true or can anyone bust this myth?? cheers!

Preamp gain causes tube overdrive. It causes the preamp tubes to overdrive.

It's not even a myth I've heard. The main thing people use tubescreamers for is to push the preamp tubes into distortion. In front of a SS amp you are relying on the distortion a tubescreamer produces itself which is only passable at best. It's ok when combined sparingly with a tube amp but most people keep the drive low, the level high and push a tube amp with it.
They were designed initially to be a standalone distortion but people quickly learned that they are much better as a boost for a tube amp.
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#20
Quote by Cathbard
Preamp gain causes tube overdrive. It causes the preamp tubes to overdrive.

It's not even a myth I've heard. The main thing people use tubescreamers for is to push the preamp tubes into distortion. In front of a SS amp you are relying on the distortion a tubescreamer produces itself which is only passable at best. It's ok when combined sparingly with a tube amp but most people keep the drive low, the level high and push a tube amp with it.
They were designed initially to be a standalone distortion but people quickly learned that they are much better as a boost for a tube amp.


yes... preamp gain causes the pre tubes to od..
but personally ive had better experience by cranking the OP tubes rather than the pre..
it just sounds cleaner... maybe its coz the tubes in there had more headroom... sorry i shouldve been clearer with that


but yeah.. according to this post.. ts9 is better with SS amps

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-568151.html
Last edited by The SoundGuy at Jun 19, 2014,
#21
That post just mentions that the TS9 has a couple of different resistor values compared to a TS808 - and that maybe that is so the TS9 sounds better on SS amps than a TS808.

It doesn't say that TS9s sound better on SS amps than tube amps.
#22
Quote by The SoundGuy
considering the space and playing restrictions... no point in getting a tube amp if i cant crank the thing up and get the tubes in the sound... you get what i mean?

I think you're too hung up on the misconception that you have to crank a tube amp for it to sound great. Well, guess what? You don't.

I get great tone at bedroom volume levels from a 50 watt tube amp -- and my amp even has a switch to select between 25 watts and 50 watts, but I have it always in 50 watts mode because it sounds better to me, even at really low volumes.
It's just a matter of learning how to adjust the gain/volume/master volume knob(s) on the amp properly, and then use the EQ to compensate and balance the tone.

I can get better tone at low volumes from my 50 watt tube amp than I can from most solid state amps I used (including Marshall MG's, Fender Frontman's, Laney LX's, Orange Crush's, Crate Flexwave's, etc.).


Don't dismiss tube amps so quickly like you did, because even with a small investment in a good tube amp you'll be able to have better tone than with spending lots of money on pedals that won't do much for the crappy tone of your Marshall MG.


Quote by The SoundGuy
but yeah.. according to this post.. ts9 is better with SS amps

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-568151.html

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#23
Quote by WeZ-84
That post just mentions that the TS9 has a couple of different resistor values compared to a TS808 - and that maybe that is so the TS9 sounds better on SS amps than a TS808.

It doesn't say that TS9s sound better on SS amps than tube amps.
Those two resistors have no effect on tone, the breakpoints they create are beyond human hearing. There can be more difference between two TS9's than between a TS9 and a TS808. Just because you've experienced a slight difference doesn't mean the circuit design was the cause. It's all about component tolerances. Had you grabbed a different TS9 (or 808) you may have reached the opposite conclusion.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Jun 19, 2014,
#24
Quote by Linkerman
I think you're too hung up on the misconception that you have to crank a tube amp for it to sound great. Well, guess what? You don't.

Don't dismiss tube amps so quickly like you did, because even with a small investment in a good tube amp you'll be able to have better tone than with spending lots of money on pedals that won't do much for the crappy tone of your Marshall MG.


i havent dismissed them. but having recorded tons of them and been around em for years, i know what i like from them... and personally they just dont sound good to me at "bedroom levels" ... but its probably just a taste thing... i like the "singing" tone you get off em when you get the output tubes in the sound

and yeah if i could, the first thing i'd buy is a tube amp..
and its really interesting to me how you assume the marshall tone
i currently have is crappy.... i've mentioned again and again that i actually
like the tone.. maybe you dont.. but then again.. its a preference thing.

maybe you should read the entire posts before jumping to conclusions and posting
your opinions randomly.
#25
You just gotten used to it, man. A person can get used to anything, even an MG - which you have just proven. But you can get used to a wart too, doesn't make it good, just familiar. We've all played an MG, we know how they sound. And everybody is telling you the same thing - upgrade your amp. It is folly to buy a pedal worth more than your amp.
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#26
Quote by Cathbard
You just gotten used to it, man. A person can get used to anything, even an MG - which you have just proven. But you can get used to a wart too, doesn't make it good, just familiar. We've all played an MG, we know how they sound. And everybody is telling you the same thing - upgrade your amp. It is folly to buy a pedal worth more than your amp.


maybe i've gotten used to it...
but also when i did go out and buy it, it totally destroyed a valveking combo
also some other orange amps just a step up in the price range..
anyways i dont understand why people are telling me to buy a new amp.

i've said i dont want to buy a new amp. maybe you dont get it..
ive mentioned its not something i can do.. forget the volume part
i keep moving every couple or months/year... i dont have the space to keep it
and i cant keep taking it around with me.. it would be cheaper if i actually bought
a new amp everywhere i went...

anyways the original question was of the ts808 vs the blackstar HT

if i wanted to buy an amp, it wouldve been done right now.
its just an investment i dont see myself making right now.

anyways any input on the pedal side would be much appreciated. cheers!
#27
Quote by Cathbard
It is folly to buy a pedal worth more than your amp.


No matter how much you like your MG this has gotta resonate with you on some level hasnt it?

You wouldnt put tyres on a car worth more than the vehicle and expect it to go faster. You wouldnt buy a guitar strap worth more than the guitar and expect it to sound better.
You wouldnt....ah you get the picture
#28
I'm one of the few around here who is prepared to admit you can get some good sounds out of an MG, but even so - once you start thinking about getting pedals to improve the sound you're getting, you've outgrown your amp and need to get something better.

That may be a tube amp, it may be a modeller, it may even be another solid state practice amp....but the last thing you want to do is invest any money in trying to change the sound you're getting from your current amp.
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#29
Quote by GaryBillington
I'm one of the few around here who is prepared to admit you can get some good sounds out of an MG, but even so - once you start thinking about getting pedals to improve the sound you're getting, you've outgrown your amp and need to get something better.

That may be a tube amp, it may be a modeller, it may even be another solid state practice amp....but the last thing you want to do is invest any money in trying to change the sound you're getting from your current amp.


not trying to change it completely.. just trying to get a slight bit of bite into it
any suggestions?

seeing how you've used it and know its capabilities.. you might be able to help me
Last edited by The SoundGuy at Jun 19, 2014,
#30
I had a guy in a band recently who said he preferred his Valvestate 8080 to my hotrodded JCM900 3/4 stack even though everybody else thought he was insane to think so. He'd just gotten used to its sound. My money's on you having fallen into the same trap.
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#31
Quote by Cathbard
I had a guy in a band recently who said he preferred his Valvestate 8080 to my hotrodded JCM900 3/4 stack even though everybody else thought he was insane to think so. He'd just gotten used to its sound. My money's on you having fallen into the same trap.


maybe.. but i know its limitations

if it didnt have an awful "fizz" in the higher registers.. it'd probably give any combo/SS amp a run for its money...

im not saying it compares to high end stuff.. but in the end of the day... for the price.. it sounds astounding. i've tried amp modellers that are more expensive and sound worse
#32
Just get a DS-1. Cheap and effective.

Ive run a DS-1/MG combo in the past. The DS-1 sounded tonnes better than the MG's dirt muddy, flabby dirt channel
#33
Quote by The SoundGuy
not trying to change it completely.. just trying to get a slight bit of bite into it
any suggestions?

seeing how you've used it and know its capabilities.. you might be able to help me

Yes, I've used an MG. I was happy with it for a long time.

When I wanted to start perfecting the tone I got out of it, I bought a new amp.
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#34
OK. I can see we aren't going to sway you. Just buy a Bad Monkey. They're a tubescreamer with a bass control and they are very cheap. Spend any more than that and you deserve to be thoroughly catted.
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#35
Quote by Cathbard
OK. I can see we aren't going to sway you. Just buy a Bad Monkey. They're a tubescreamer with a bass control and they are very cheap.


hahaha you can never sway me
and yeah cheers.. will give it a check.
#36
I almost think this is a troll thread. You come here for advice and then try to completely dismiss and rebut any advice put forth.

Get a new amp! Don't pay twice for crappy gear. New amp will add +10 tone points to your sound while a new pedal will add +2 maybe.
#37
Quote by wildozer
I almost think this is a troll thread. You come here for advice and then try to completely dismiss and rebut any advice put forth.

Get a new amp! Don't pay twice for crappy gear. New amp will add +10 tone points to your sound while a new pedal will add +2 maybe.


i asked for advice regarding pedals

if you read my posts i've clearly explained why i cant buy amps.
#38
Quote by The SoundGuy
maybe.. but i know its limitations

if it didnt have an awful "fizz" in the higher registers.. it'd probably give any combo/SS amp a run for its money...
im not saying it compares to high end stuff.. but in the end of the day... for the price.. it sounds astounding. i've tried amp modellers that are more expensive and sound worse



If a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass so much...

If If If.
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#39
Quote by Arby911
If a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass so much...

If If If.


what does a frog have to do with pedals and amps ?
#40
Quote by The SoundGuy
what does a frog have to do with pedals and amps ?


The analogy was about caveats and the uselessness thereof.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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