#1
I love the guitar sound of Led Zeppelin, especially the one in the song Black Dog (probably because of the cool riff itself). I can play it decent enough and it sounds fine but it just doesn't sound like Jimmy. I have a Gibson Les Paul 1960 Traditional (coil-split) and a Roland Cube 40XL with these sounds:

Brit Combo = Vox AC30
Black Panel = Fender Twin Reverb
Tweed = Bassman 4X10
Classic = Marshall JMP
Metal Stack= Peavy EVH 5150
R-Fier = Mesa Boogie Rectifier
Extreme = High Gain Amp
Dyna Amp = Sensitive to Pick Attack/Dynamics

Have any of you tried to get that kind of sound out of a Cube? I usually use the Tweed setting for Zeppelin-stuff, but I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be added effects to the riff, so maybe the key is to have the right amout of bass, mids and treble? :-)
#2
he might have used a tele on that, not certain.

there's also a fair chance he used a fuzz pedal.

i guess i'd try the brit combo, tweed, and classic models and see how close you can get. maybe engage the coil split on your bridge pickup and see fi that helps.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#3
Quote by Dave_Mc
he might have used a tele on that, not certain.

there's also a fair chance he used a fuzz pedal.

i guess i'd try the brit combo, tweed, and classic models and see how close you can get. maybe engage the coil split on your bridge pickup and see fi that helps.

I just found this on the songs wiki:

"Page also discussed how he achieved his guitar sound on the track:

We put my Les Paul through a direct box, and from there into a mic channel. We used the mic amp of the mixing board to get distortion. Then we ran it through two Urei 1176 Universal compressors in series. Then each line was triple-tracked. Curiously, I was listening to that track when we were reviewing the tapes and the guitars almost sound like an analog synthesizer."

Using a mic amp to get distortion sounds wierd, but the two compressors probably does a lot for the sound. What does he mean by triple-tracked?
#4
right so i was totally off there

I dunno.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
That famous Led Zep studio magic, bro. Remember that Page did not play with that exact sound live, either.
#6
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#7
Quote by Xerophthalmia
What does he mean by triple-tracked?


Say you record your guitar track. Then add 2 new empty tracks and you copy and paste your original track into the other 2 slots. You can pan these differently, put different effects on 1 or 2 or all of them. EQ them all differently. In this case he probably did it just to fatten the tone up since he plugged straight in. He said they triple tracked each compressor. That's 6 guitar tracks !

Triple tracking = studio magic. I'm sure Page himself never sounded that way live!
Last edited by cheesefries at Jun 18, 2014,
#8
Quote by cheesefries
Say you record your guitar track. Then add 2 new empty tracks and you copy and paste your original track into the other 2 slots. You can pan these differently, put different effects on 1 or 2 or all of them. EQ them all differently. In this case he probably did it just to fatten the tone up since he plugged straight in. He said they triple tracked each compressor. That's 6 guitar tracks !

Triple tracking = studio magic. I'm sure Page himself never sounded that way live!

That makes sense. Well, I can try different settings, but it obviously wouldn't be the same, but that's alright. Maybe I can get close though. ;-)

Thanks for all the replies!
#9
Copy/paste won't do it. You have to play it three times.
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#10
Quote by Cathbard
Copy/paste won't do it. You have to play it three times.

this. if you copy and paste the same track, it'll sound like you're using a really short delay, or it won't sound like you're doing anything at all. every time you play a riff, no matter how perfectly you nail it, you'll always just be a little bit off. when you overdub alternate takes, the minute differences between them is what makes the result sound full and awesome.

edit: and i would suggest cranking the hell out of the classic (plexi) mode.
Last edited by NakedInTheRain at Jun 18, 2014,
#11
i have wondered about this: if you record through two amps different, both mic'd properly. would you still need to add more tracks? may sound stupid. but i don't know.
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#13
Well, it is one effect. Pan one amp differently to the other. Otherwise it just sounds like a blend of two amps. Well, you've tried the stereo thing. Double tracking is a different thing altogether. It utilises the inherent inaccuracy in humans playing. Nobody can play identically two times. Even the most accurate player in the world can't get it as accurate as a computer; in either timing or amplitude. It just can't be done.
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#14
Quote by Cathbard
Well, it is one effect. Pan one amp differently to the other. Otherwise it just sounds like a blend of two amps. Well, you've tried the stereo thing. Double tracking is a different thing altogether. It utilises the inherent inaccuracy in humans playing. Nobody can play identically two times. Even the most accurate player in the world can't get it as accurate as a computer; in either timing or amplitude. It just can't be done.


interesting. i just never really knew. always wondered. thanks.

to you both^
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#15
DUDE!!!

i got close last night. i just had my carvin rewired for a out of phase switch, and i can NAIL that dyer maker tone. that kinda whiney jimmy page solo tone.

i am not sure if he uses his phase switch on that les paul of his for black dog, but when i played it last night i certainly got that "screamy" biting tone jimmy has some times with his lead licks.

that and a really thick OD or fuzz, combined with a good bit of reverb or some kind of echoplex type modeller.
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#16
Quote by Cathbard
Copy/paste won't do it. You have to play it three times.


It will if you add effects etc. as cheesefries suggested.
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#17
In the same way that tofu chicken is chicken.
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Cathbard Amplification
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#18
Quote by Cathbard
In the same way that tofu chicken is chicken.


Nope. Mixed properly there's no way to know what was played repeatedly and what was studio magic.

It's domestic hog v. wild hog. Both taste like pork in the skillet...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#20
Quote by NakedInTheRain
nope. it'll just sound weird. and possibly a bit shit.


Oh, Ok...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#22
Quote by NakedInTheRain
sigh. i'll record some examples, and post them tomorrow.

until then,


As much as I respect your need to prove me wrong, surely you see that your recorded examples won't do that?

While I'm not a mixing guru, I've seen it done both ways (single track used miltiple times with added effects or multiple recorded tracks mixed down) and either one works. They aren't the 'same' but they are both effective.

I have no interest in a pissing contest, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#24
Quote by NakedInTheRain
i'm proving my own point that you can't replicate double-tracking with 'studio magic'. but yeah, i can't really be ****ed arguing either.


Really all you might be proving is that YOU can't do it, not that it can't be done, right?

Hence a futility where we both just get pissed off and start insulting each other for no reason, for a question that neither of us REALLY cares about... (I'm not always opposed to that, but you're too good a sport to make it much fun!!)

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#25
I could imagine it working if you could randomly shift the timing like you can do with MIDI. Hell, we've been doing that as far back as the 80's with MIDI. R8 drum machines had it built in. Cubase on the Atari could do it.
It is possible to do now with audio in theory, like doing the reverse of pitch shifting while keeping the timing the same. But is there anything that will actually do it? And do it without sounding like auto tune? I mean you don't want your doubled tracks to sound like the Rebecca Black of guitar would you?
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Marshall 18W clone
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Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
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Last edited by Cathbard at Jun 19, 2014,
#26
Copying and pasting a track and hard panning just leads to a +6dB increase in a centered sound. So, needless to say, you have to double track to get that sound.

Anyway, OP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feqQgyah1PI This might work - it's supposed to be a Neve 1073 in a box.
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Quote by Anonden
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Last edited by oneblackened at Jun 19, 2014,
#27
Quote by Cathbard
I could imagine it working if you could randomly shift the timing like you can do with MIDI. Hell, we've been doing that as far back as the 80's with MIDI. R8 drum machines had it built in. Cubase on the Atari could do it.
It is possible to do now with audio in theory, like doing the reverse of pitch shifting while keeping the timing the same. But is there anything that will actually do it? And do it without sounding like auto tune? I mean you don't want your doubled tracks to sound like the Rebecca Black of guitar would you?


Yes. Although there are probably other ways of doing it, one simple way would be to lay down a track, copy it to a second track, then analyze the copy for timing and autocorrect it. Since the original would be off subtly and the corrected copy would be perfect, they would be just that slight amount 'out' that we talk about when we discuss laying down 2 (or more) tracks. I'm sure there are other methods, but that's just one off the top of my head and I'm surely not an audio engineer.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#28
Or you just get the guitarist to lay it down multiple times - unless he's incapable of course. Sounds a lot easier to me.
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#29
Quote by Cathbard
Or you just get the guitarist to lay it down multiple times - unless he's incapable of course. Sounds a lot easier to me.


Of course, but you asked if it was possible.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#30
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band