University Punishes Videotaped Sexual Assault With 'Expulsion After Graduation'

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#1
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/18/james-madison-university-sexual-assault_n_5509163.html

James Madison University punished three fraternity members for sexually assaulting a female student and sharing their video of the attack by banning them from campus -- after they graduate.

The school found the men responsible for sexual assault and harassment in the spring break 2013 attack on Sarah Butters, and determined that they shared the video widely with others on the JMU campus in Harrisonburg, Virginia. The unusual "expulsion after graduation" sanction allowed two of the men to graduate on time in May. The third plans to remain on campus for his senior year in 2014-15.



This is interesting.

Let's try not to turn this discussion into a shitshow fight about rape... that would be much appreciated
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#3
I think the crazier thing is that they're not getting fined or jailed.
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#4
Quote by JustRooster
I think the crazier thing is that they're not getting fined or jailed.


This times 10000000
#5
Quote by JustRooster
I think the crazier thing is that they're not getting fined or jailed.

My thought exactly.
Wtf
#6
Quote by JustRooster
I think the crazier thing is that they're not getting fined or jailed.

Yeah I though this was ridiculous. Not only are they not getting expelled through the school, but there are virtually no charges outside of the school.


In my particular case, there wasn't enough physical evidence of anything to take matters successfully to the local authorities, so I was told to attempt to go to the school instead because they 1) take the cases more seriously and 2) could expel the guy since he was still a student (not that he did, but it was at least a possibility)

In this case THERE IS A VIDEOTAPE
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#7
Where is the vid?

edit: They don't get prosecuted? ****ing America.
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#8
Quote by Neo Evil11
Where is the vid?

edit: They don't get prosecuted? ****ing America.

I doubt they would allow that video to be posted online, especially during allegations


nor do we need the voyeuristic satisfaction of watching an assault play out
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Last edited by vintage x metal at Jun 19, 2014,
#9
Well that's dumb.
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#10
I was joking don't get so serious.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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#11
Quote by JustRooster
I think the crazier thing is that they're not getting fined or jailed.

My thoughts exactly, I didn't read the whole article but I didn't see anything about a police investigation. Letting someone graduate before you expel them? What is that crap, let them finish their degrees in a jail cell. What a slap in the face to the victim.
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#12
And even if you forget about punishing them adequately or whatever, because that's a whole different topic, how about helping her get her life back together? I think that's the worst part, that none of these people give a shit about
cat
#13
I understand giving someone a degree, but let them go to jail at least.
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#14
Quote by guitarxo
And even if you forget about punishing them adequately or whatever, because that's a whole different topic, how about helping her get her life back together? I think that's the worst part, that none of these people give a shit about


That's one that's always tricky. No one wants to be the victim forever, and it's hard to even want to emotionally work through what happened when the effort that you put through legally doesn't amount to much. She is probably very embarrassed, which she shouldn't be.
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#15
Quote by Neo Evil11
I was joking don't get so serious.

Don't get so serious.

In a thread about rape.
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#16
Given the obvious minimalist punishment that's being meted out and the fact that there's allegedly a videotape, it seems at least possible that the assault wasn't sufficient to meet the requirements for criminal prosecution.

While it does appear on the face to be the very model of failure on the part of the school and the authorities, I think I'll reserve judgement until we have more information.
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#17
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Don't get so serious.

In a thread about rape.

You saying we should limit comedy? Does this also mean we can't make jokes about 11/9 or WW2? Don't want to misuse this thread to discuss this so nvm.
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#19
Quote by Neo Evil11
You saying we should limit comedy? Does this also mean we can't make jokes about 11/9 or WW2? Don't want to misuse this thread to discuss this so nvm.
There's a time and a place. And this isn't either.
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#20
Quote by lolmnt
There's a time and a place. And this isn't either.


Thus saith the comedy police moderator!
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#21
Quote by Arby911
Given the obvious minimalist punishment that's being meted out and the fact that there's allegedly a videotape, it seems at least possible that the assault wasn't sufficient to meet the requirements for criminal prosecution.

While it does appear on the face to be the very model of failure on the part of the school and the authorities, I think I'll reserve judgement until we have more information.

There is not an 'alleged' videotape. The whole thing only went to the school court because there was a videotape that could be watched. The videotape was being spread by the perpetrators, which is an entirely separate act of assault on its own. The video was spread to friends to eventually get to the victim.

The video shows Butters topless and being groped, while the men laugh and pull her onto their laps, trying to remove the bottom of her bathing suit. It includes audio of Butters saying, "This isn't okay, this isn't a good idea."

A judicial affairs representative told Butters it was rare for anyone to be expelled, according to documents from the adjudication process shared with The Huffington Post. The student handbook listed suspension as the harshest punishment for sexual assault.



Expulsion, policy-wise, isn't even a possibility in relation to a sexual assault. In this case, the assault was not rape (penetration), but even that would only merit suspension according to the school's policy.
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#22
Quote by vintage x metal
There is not an 'alleged' videotape. The whole thing only went to the school court because there was a videotape that could be watched. The videotape was being spread by the perpetrators, which is an entirely separate act of assault on its own. The video was spread to friends to eventually get to the victim.


Expulsion, policy-wise, isn't even a possibility in relation to a sexual assault. In this case, the assault was not rape (penetration), but even that would only merit suspension according to the school's policy.


I'll concede my wording was poor, it's a near-certainty that the videotape exists.

Are you certain though that it shows what is being alleged?

As I said, absent further data it seems reasonable to at least consider that it might not?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#23
Quote by Neo Evil11
You saying we should limit comedy? Does this also mean we can't make jokes about 11/9 or WW2? Don't want to misuse this thread to discuss this so nvm.



I'm pretty convinced you're the worst user on this website. I'd rather have Ian back. At least he made it obvious he was inconsiderate and dumb.
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#24
I'm betting the rapist has a very rich daddy.
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#25
Quote by JustRooster
I'm pretty convinced you're the worst user on this website. I'd rather have Ian back. At least he made it obvious he was inconsiderate and dumb.

Be more constructive in your feedback.

edit: Calling these boys rapists goes too far. There was no penetration...Just some groping.
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#28
Quote by Arby911
I'll concede my wording was poor, it's a near-certainty that the videotape exists.

Are you certain though that it shows what is being alleged?

As I said, absent further data it seems reasonable to at least consider that it might not?

Nothing is CERTAIN (like the sun rising tomorrow or that every crow is black). If we're arguing semantics, I'm not interested.

As far as viability goes, the only reason the girl shared the video is because the school could pursue punishment without permission. She obviously didn't want any hand in manufacturing the events that ensued. Proof of what is on the video (for us to partake in) is only possible by spreading the video itself, which is wholly unnecessary and highly degrading. I don't see why a news article would fabricate the contents of the video when the case has already happened and the creators of the video were the perpetrators.


I try to keep my skepticism grounded in context. The context of this situation just makes is highly unlikely that the contents of the video does not match the article. Obviously if you are skeptical, that is your choice; I wouldn't pin it to simple 'skepticism' at that point though.
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#30
Quote by vintage x metal
Nothing is CERTAIN (like the sun rising tomorrow or that every crow is black). If we're arguing semantics, I'm not interested.

As far as viability goes, the only reason the girl shared the video is because the school could pursue punishment without permission. She obviously didn't want any hand in manufacturing the events that ensued. Proof of what is on the video (for us to partake in) is only possible by spreading the video itself, which is wholly unnecessary and highly degrading. I don't see why a news article would fabricate the contents of the video when the case has already happened and the creators of the video were the perpetrators.


I try to keep my skepticism grounded in context. The context of this situation just makes is highly unlikely that the contents of the video does not match the article. Obviously if you are skeptical, that is your choice; I wouldn't pin it to simple 'skepticism' at that point though.


I'm not skeptical, I make no suggestion either way, but the fact that the authorities have to appearances declined to prosecute is also a material fact that I would think we shouldn't dismiss without consideration?


I'm not saying the video should be publically released, that shouldn't be necessary, but surely relevant authorities must have access, no?

There are simply too many things we don't yet know to make any kind of judgements here, pro or con.
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#31
"the fact that the authorities have to appearances declined to prosecute is also a material fact that I would think we shouldn't dismiss without consideration?"


I don't understand this sentence. Is it a sentence?
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#32
lol I can't believe I actually wasted time visiting that school. I had no reason to.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#33
Quote by vintage x metal
"the fact that the authorities have to appearances declined to prosecute is also a material fact that I would think we shouldn't dismiss without consideration?"


I don't understand this sentence. Is it a sentence?



It is.

Is the fact that the authorities have seemingly decided not to prosecute material or not?

I believe it is.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#34
Quote by Arby911
It is.

Is the fact that the authorities have seemingly decided not to prosecute material or not?

I believe it is.

Reread your sentence.
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#35
Quote by vintage x metal
Reread your sentence.


I have, it stands as correct.
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#36
It sounds really awkward and is hard to understand, Arby.


Anyway, I'm really surprised that the 3 men who created the video aren't being charged in criminal or civil court. Here, they basically fucked up this women's life and academic career, and all they get is, "Now, once you graduate...don't come back here again!" WHAT?!

I realize that the appeals process is still going on, but these guys don't even deserve an appeal.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jun 19, 2014,
#37
Quote by vintage x metal
I doubt they would allow that video to be posted online, especially during allegations


nor do we need the voyeuristic satisfaction of watching an assault play out


Man I wish I knew more words like this one, I would sound so smart.
#38
It sounds like Mummy and Daddy just bought the University a new wing and this was magically swept under the rug.
#39
Quote by JustRooster
I think the crazier thing is that they're not getting fined or jailed.

This
#40
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
It sounds really awkward and is hard to understand, Arby.



Fair enough, I could have phrased it more clearly, thanks.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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