#1
http://www.kpho.com/slideshow?widgetid=117700

For the first time, federal officials are taking us inside the facility holding immigrant children seeking asylum from Central America.



What are your thoughts?
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#2
Looks crowded to all ****ery but seems like they're taken care of as well as you can expect to take care of so many children.
#3
This has been going on for a while and just now seems to be getting national attention.

It's depressing. If I was of use I'd do something about it (I live not far from Nogales).

And I'm absolutely disgusted by the local community's reaction to this; politicising this with their anti-immigration remarks and borderline racism.

Edit: Those pictures don't show everything. There's photos of them sleeping on the floor with no clothes (except for underwear) and tin foil. Not the most inhumane conditions but it's more everyone's '**** these criminals' attitude combined the overall struggle of escaping the violence of their home countries' violence that has me outraged.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Jun 20, 2014,
#5
They must of been in a pretty bad situation to cross the border by themselves. But They look like they are being treated well and I hope they can find their family members.
#6
Quote by willT08
wait was I supposed to be outraged looking at those photos?

You're not really supposed to feel a particular way about it; my own reaction was complicated so I thought I'd post the article on the forum.
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#7
Quote by willT08
wait was I supposed to be outraged looking at those photos?


See my edit. What they go through (I'm not talking about the facilities, though they were a bit worse before this started to gradually gain attention) is rough and if you lived around the anti-immigration racists of Arizona you'd know why I'm so mad about it.

These kids are such a threat and we need to deport them immediately.
#8
I've never heard of this place before but given what it's use is it doesn't look bad at all in terms of living conditions. If when slippy says tinfoil he means those big thermo-sheet things that look like tinfoil that sounds decent. I don't know about the attitudes of the public about the kids there or anything though.

They're fed, given time to play and helped in finding their family...I don't know what else they could be doing.
#9


I'm probably overreacting but as I said it's more the public reaction that made me angry.

Kids coming over from Mexico under the same conditions are not always so lucky, as US asylum law only offers 'temporary' asylum automatically to those from non-contiguous countries (temporary asylum meaning their circumstances must be reviewed before it is decided whether or not they are deported. I've heard of people being deported for having no skills or family here, but I've also heard of many being allowed to stay with their families for a set period of time). In this particular case most are being allowed to see their families and are getting proper treatment (the pictures don't show that many of these kids had contagious deceases and they are getting treated) but many still risk deportation. Their journeys are risky and many don't make it (mass graves have been found in Mexico of Central American migrants who refused to collaborate with gangs and cartels).

Which is why I can't stand the sentiment. The same guy who took the picture above thinks that the violence is 'made up' so Obama can ruin America with immigration. Granted most people aren't that dumb but people are willing to just put aside the legitimate struggle, and this may fuel the 'legitimacy' of anti-immigrant politicians in Arizona.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Jun 20, 2014,
#10
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/18/life-inside-a-childrens-warehouse-border-agents-wa


here is another article



Under law, the Homeland Security Department can hold the children for only three days and then must turn them over to the Health and Human Services Department, which is supposed to house them until they can be placed with relatives or foster families as they await court rulings on whether they will be deported.
Immigrant rights groups have complained about conditions at the detention facilities, and several have filed complaints detailing more than 100 cases of physical or verbal abuse, or negligence toward the children’s needs.

“We have instances where CBP shackled 13- and 14-year-olds, infants became sick while held in cells maintained at freezing temperatures, and many children were held in CBP custody beyond the legal 72-hour period, without food or blankets,” said Erika Pinheiro, directing attorney for community education programs at the Esperanza Immigrant Rights Project.
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Last edited by vintage x metal at Jun 20, 2014,
#11
The point of those sheets is that they keep people nice and warm. They're a great idea considering they don't wanna be washing however many hundreds of sets of sheets every day

I'm not sure where the outrage lies. Obviously the lengths people go to to get into the US are unimaginable and extremely dangerous but I don't see that going through them guarantees you entry to the US? That's not the world we live in. I'm not understanding what there is to be angry about

EDIT: Okay right so there's illegal detentions going on. Well now I see
Last edited by willT08 at Jun 20, 2014,
#12
I think the border patrol is doing the best they can with what they've been given. I just think that it's ass-backwards to give them a less comfortable living environment than most prisoners have in the US.
#13
Quote by willT08
The point of those sheets is that they keep people nice and warm. They're a great idea considering they don't wanna be washing however many hundreds of sets of sheets every day

I'm not sure where the outrage lies. Obviously the lengths people go to to get into the US are unimaginable and extremely dangerous but I don't see that going through them guarantees you entry to the US? That's not the world we live in. I'm not understanding what there is to be angry about


I can accept the first part (though as vintage's recent post show it's not a flawless situation and there's some questionable things going on).

Regarding the second paragraph, I think these kids should be granted asylum, and this is consistent with current asylum policy. I just don't understand people who actively want them to be deported.

And I don't blame the border patrol. In fact, most of the opinions I've read/heard from border patrol members are open about what's going on, do not want to deport them, and are trying to do the best they can. This all started 'quickly' after the detention centers in Texas became too full.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Jun 20, 2014,
#14
It's a little more complicated than "Hey check it out we're housing kids".

Arizona has been a very heated place as far as immigration goes (legally and culturally), so it's expected for them to be cautious about what information they do or do not release. It is difficult not to hold some skepticism in reference to what's starting to be published.
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#15
Quote by vintage x metal
It's a little more complicated than "Hey check it out we're housing kids".

Arizona has been a very heated place as far as immigration goes (legally and culturally), so it's expected for them to be cautious about what information they do or do not release. It is difficult not to hold some skepticism in reference to what's starting to be published.


If this is directed at me, I know.
#16
never heard of this. why is this one in particular so (in)famous?

Those images on the main article don't look too bad, I just feel like there's a lot of (subtle or not) misdirected foul treatment of the children due to their anger towards immigrants like what vintage quoted which is really messed up
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#17
Quote by slipknot5678

Regarding the second paragraph, I think these kids should be granted asylum, and this is consistent with current asylum policy. I just don't understand people who actively want them to be deported.

Ah okay I see that. I can't say I know enough about the countries these kids are coming from to know whether any asylum claims are substantial

In the UK our eligibility criteria are this. I don't know how those stack up with yours or the conditions of whichever countries these kids are coming from but I'm sure there's at least some of them who wouldn't meet the requirements and need to be put back with their families.

Of course anyone just shouting "SEND THEM HOME" with no regards for their welfare is an unhelpful twat, we can all agree on that
#18
Quote by slipknot5678
If this is directed at me, I know.

oh it wasn't necessarily directed at you, I just realized it was good information to mention (along with what you had already posted) about the political climate in Arizona since a lot of UGers aren't American (and even the ones that are aren't necessarily paying attention to AZ)
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#19
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
never heard of this. why is this one in particular so (in)famous?

Those images on the main article don't look too bad, I just feel like there's a lot of (subtle or not) misdirected foul treatment of the children due to their anger towards immigrants like what vintage quoted which is really messed up


You're pretty much right.

This recently got bad because the Texas centers couldn't take anymore so they were sent to Nogales, which wasn't prepared for so many.
#20
Quote by willT08
Ah okay I see that. I can't say I know enough about the countries these kids are coming from to know whether any asylum claims are substantial

In the UK our eligibility criteria are this. I don't know how those stack up with yours or the conditions of whichever countries these kids are coming from but I'm sure there's at least some of them who wouldn't meet the requirements and need to be put back with their families.

Of course anyone just shouting "SEND THEM HOME" with no regards for their welfare is an unhelpful twat, we can all agree on that
.
That's almost the exact same as the US asylum policy, based on an interview I heard with a border agent. I've looked into it myself before too. Here's a link: http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum

Of course both these sites don't show the complexity of both US and UK asylum laws, and in both countries, obviously many are denied. Legally some of these kids aren't 'technically' eligible, which has opened up the debate.

And these places they are coming from (Guatemala, Honduras, etc.) are some of the most violent places in the world, and often families will be specifically targeted by criminal organisations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Honduras
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Jun 20, 2014,
#21
also, consider...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_Latin_America

The illegal drug trade in Latin America concerns primarily the production and sale of cocaine and cannabis, including the export of these banned substances to the United States and Europe. Coca cultivation is concentrated in the Andes of South America, particularly in Colombia, Peru and Bolivia; this is the world's only source region for coca.

Drug consumption in Latin America remains relatively low, but cocaine in particular has increased in recent years in countries along the major smuggling routes. As of 2008, the primary pathway for drugs into the United States was through Central America and then Mexico; 90% of all US cocaine entered via Mexico or its territorial waters. This is a shift from the 1980s and early 90s, when the main smuggling route was via the Caribbean into Florida. The United States is the primary destination, but around 25 to 30% of global cocaine production travels from Latin America to Europe, typically via West Africa.
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