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#1
Many guitars today are made of Mahogany or other trees that are harvested from rainforests in Latinamerica and the Far East. According to some estimations the rainforests could be gone in 40 years if we continue harvest it like now.

1. Why do we need the rainforest?
There are several reasons. One main reason is that the rainforest is full of different species of animals and plants that could serve mankind. For instance, 25% of our current precription medicine comes from plants in the rain forrest. Despite this, we've only examined around 1-10% of all the species that exist there. Imagine what an amazing resource for all mankind! This resource is wasted if we continue like now.

Here is a very basic summary of benefits with the rainforest:
http://www.rainforestconcern.org/rainforest_facts/why_are_rainforests_important/


2. But alot of the wood is FSC marked, isn't that enough?
The FSC mark is invented by the forest companies themselves. As you could expect they don't fulfil their alleged mission. Read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Stewardship_Council#Criticism

And even if we had some sort of certification of this that could mean anything, illegal wood is already slipping through. Here is when Gibson did it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15268169

3. But the tone?
Wood is not critical for the sound on an electric guitar when it is used with amplification. That is because the sound comes from the vibrating strings, rather from on the body like on an acoustic guitar. There are several sources covering the topic scientifically:

http://www.guitarsite.com/news/music_news_from_around_the_world/electric-guitar-wood-myth-busted/

http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf

4. I think we should ask for alternatives
There are many other suitable alternatives like fir-tree, ash, maple etc. out there. These are not only more enviromental friendly, but can be a lot cheaper and more light weight too.

If we show the manufacturers of guitars that this is something we want, we can change this. I know that I don't want to play something that caused destruction of valuable rainforests, especially not when it isn't giving any benefits.

What do you say? It will be a win for everybody in the long run if we started to make guitars out of other types of wood. The revolution can start here today, and you can all be part of it.
#4
Bullshit wood doesn't affect tone


I love rainforests and its a shame we're destroying them but still
#9
Quote by whywefight
Bullshit wood doesn't affect tone


I love rainforests and its a shame we're destroying them but still


Have you made a blind test with to identical guitars, other than the wood type?

This guy has:
http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf

If two guitars weren't identical (except regarding the wood) it's impossible to tell if the wood made the tone different, or something else.

JackWhiteIsButts: But you, and your nearest and dearest will be one day. And medicine is just one of many things we could get from there.

anvil is god: Certainly not.
#10
but rainforest wood has better tone

jk if you think wood has an effect on tone ur dumb

I think we should just make all guitars out of aluminum/acrylic, they're much sturdier and last longer that way
banned
Last edited by deadsmileyface at Jul 8, 2014,
#12
Yeah.... no.... wood sounds different. All I need for that evidence is to take two Gibson Les Paul, one with a 1/4" maple top and one with a solid mahogany body, identical hardware, plug them into the same amp, and listen for the difference. You can hear it. Anyone with a decent ear can hear it.

You are a hippy and should be shot.

Also we need to save the rain forest for other reasons, I doubt the amount of wood used in guitars drastically affects the rainforest.

*EDIT* Just to be clear, that is how I decided which Les Paul I was going to get.
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Last edited by DamienEx1021 at Jul 8, 2014,
#13
Quote by MeGaDeth2314
Nah the rain forest totally sucks ass. Just a bunch of diseases and old wrinkly people and shit

Thats Florida dude
#14
Quote by SirSixString
Have you made a blind test with to identical guitars, other than the wood type?

This guy has:
http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf

If two guitars weren't identical (except regarding the wood) it's impossible to tell if the wood made the tone different, or something else.

JackWhiteIsButts: But you, and your nearest and dearest will be one day. And medicine is just one of many things we could get from there.

anvil is god: Certainly not.


He's also done no statistical analysis on the results. Just posting graphs and saying 'yeah, there's no difference' isn't research. Hell, just looking at the pickup graphs suggests there is differences- a difference of 10dB at a frequency is effectively doubling the perceived volume. There are multiple frequencies that have around a 5dB difference, suggesting the is indeed a perceivable difference.
#15
Quote by SirSixString
JackWhiteIsButts: But you, and your nearest and dearest will be one day. And medicine is just one of many things we could get from there.

I'm young and in good health. Instead of relying on something as fickle and sensitive as the rainforest for medication I trust that science will be able to synthetically produce the same medications at affordable rates by the time I need them. Maybe we should go back to horses and buggies to get around while we're at it.
#16
Even if they stopped making guitars out of rainforest wood, it wouldn't make a difference in the long run. You'll need to start boycotting the furniture makers for that.

The alternatives you posted are what most guitars are made of.
#18
1. Wood does affect tone.

2. Guitars are negligible. The real problem is the furniture makers.
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#19
there's some pretty #dece guitar sample libraries out there so the guitar is defunct now. wooden furniture is defunct as well so there's no need for any of it.

shouldn't be a problem but everyone in the world is a regressive asshole except me and snazz and jazzrockfeel
#20
Quote by Deliriumbassist
He's also done no statistical analysis on the results. Just posting graphs and saying 'yeah, there's no difference' isn't research. Hell, just looking at the pickup graphs suggests there is differences- a difference of 10dB at a frequency is effectively doubling the perceived volume. There are multiple frequencies that have around a 5dB difference, suggesting the is indeed a perceivable difference.


I'm happy you read the report. I agree that the data it isn't complete.

But it isn't the only verdict:
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/synergy/synergy-news-articles/$10k-or-$300-guitar-it-sounds-the-same

StewieSwan, willT08, Malchius: The fact that more wood is used for furniture, doesn't excuse the use for guitars. Especially not when there isn't a lot of meaning doing that. Cutting down on rainforest wood in guitars makes a difference in itself, and could also set a positive trend.
#21
Quote by SirSixString
I'm happy you read the report. I agree that the data it isn't complete.

But it isn't the only verdict:
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/synergy/synergy-news-articles/$10k-or-$300-guitar-it-sounds-the-same

StewieSwan, willT08, Malchius: The fact that more wood is used for furniture, doesn't excuse the use for guitars. Especially not when there isn't a lot of meaning doing that. Cutting down on rainforest wood in guitars makes a difference in itself, and could also set a positive trend.


Unfortunately that link just says that he made a conclusion. His methodology could be flawed, his actual results relatively inconclusive... but that link tells us pretty much nothing.
#22
i would like to have a guitar built out of a crepe myrtle because that's my favorite tree



i don't care what it sounds like.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#23
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Unfortunately that link just says that he made a conclusion. His methodology could be flawed, his actual results relatively inconclusive... but that link tells us pretty much nothing.


The method sound rather solid. Same string length, same string support and same pickups. Also he was biased towards expecting a difference initially:

http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2012/07/09/3541888.htm

EDIT: A whole thread on the subject:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1554482
Last edited by SirSixString at Jul 8, 2014,
#24
Quote by SirSixString
The method sound rather solid. Same string length, same string support and same pickups. Also he was biased towards expecting a difference initially:

http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2012/07/09/3541888.htm


Unless I'm clicking things wrong or just not seeing it, you aren't actually posting any studies. At the moment, you may as well be posting young earth creationist propaganda.
#25
Quote by SirSixString
StewieSwan, willT08, Malchius: The fact that more wood is used for furniture, doesn't excuse the use for guitars. Especially not when there isn't a lot of meaning doing that. Cutting down on rainforest wood in guitars makes a difference in itself, and could also set a positive trend.



It's not just 'more wood'. It's probably like 96% of it. If you could stop the guitar industry in its tracks it'd probably make little to no difference in deforestation.
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#26
You say yourself that it will only make a difference in 40 years. I'll be 63 and will likely just be waiting to die whilst going on holiday 6 times a year and talking to people I don't know on public transport making them feel uncomfortable and awkward.
It may affect my future children and grandchildren but, eh, screw em. I'll spend enough time, money and resources raising them and will eventually have to let go of all my hopes, dreams and aspirations because a condom ripped, and now they want me to stop having nice things as well? Cheeky little blighters! I have a good mind to get a vasectomy so that my future children aren't born, that'll teach 'em.


But really, I don't care that much about the environment and rainforests etc anyway. I already don't do much that would make much of a difference to these things. Not because I care, but because I generally don't do things like be wasteful or tend to buy things that make a difference to either thing. If I did anything at all to 'save the environment and rainforest', the only things I thing I would be left able to do is sit in a dark room and wait for inevitable death...Actually, I wouldn't be allowed a room since they usually get made out of wood, so I would be sat in the rainforest.
I'm not going to stop owning nice things like well crafted guitars made out of fabulous, fabulous wood. In fact, I'm going out of my way right now to go and buy more things made out of wood. If when I ask the store assistant "was this table made from rainforest wood?" he replies "no", I'll refuse purchase and demand he show me something that is.
When I was eleven I broke the patio window and my mother sued me... She's always been a very aggressive litigator.
#27
Cutting down trees for tonewoods makes next to no difference in the whole picture of deforestation.

Next to the trees that are cut down, for example, to provide grazing for cattle, it's like a fart in a hurricane.
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#28
cutting down any amount of anything so gimps can learn how to play smoke on the water and then realize computers are better is silly
#29
Quote by link no1

But really, I don't care that much about the environment and rainforests etc anyway. I already don't do much that would make much of a difference to these things. Not because I care, but because I generally don't do things like be wasteful or tend to buy things that make a difference to either thing. If I did anything at all to 'save the environment and rainforest', the only things I thing I would be left able to do is sit in a dark room and wait for inevitable death...Actually, I wouldn't be allowed a room since they usually get made out of wood, so I would be sat in the rainforest.
I'm not going to stop owning nice things like well crafted guitars made out of fabulous, fabulous wood. In fact, I'm going out of my way right now to go and buy more things made out of wood. If when I ask the store assistant "was this table made from rainforest wood?" he replies "no", I'll refuse purchase and demand he show me something that is.

You sound like a really cool guy
#30
Quote by willT08
cutting down any amount of anything so gimps can learn how to play smoke on the water and then realize computers are better is silly


Trees are a renewable resource, metals and petroleum not so much.

Guess the folks that rely on technology to fake make music are the real environmental terrorists...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#31
Quote by Arby911
Trees are a renewable resource, metals and petroleum not so much.

Guess the folks that rely on technology to fake make music are the real environmental terrorists...

yeah but if you make edm you have to work on fusion in your downtime because we're cool&nice so we're working on it
#32
Most guitars are ash or alder already dumb ass. Why don't you go bitch about the furniture builders instead. Were a ****ing drop in the bucket compared to them you know.
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#34
the rainforest is more important than your guitar tone, if you consider the fact that you all probably suck at guitar anyway
#35
Standard cynical disengagement in many of the responses here. Exactly the reason that we're ****ed. Also present here is the "profits will solve our woes" argument, which posits that if people are allowed to make enough money - convert natural resources into pure capital/profit, pure money - we will eventually be able to buy our way out of whatever difficulties are created, using that very capital!
I don't know conclusively how ****ed the environment is, whether an area of rainforest the size of two football fields really does disappear every half second, whether global warming is real or not, but I know I'm certainly not going to believe that everything's going to be fine just because the guys who are making a lot of money say so.
Having said that, you haven't included any evidence of the impact that the guitar industry has on the rainforest, which could be massive or could be negligible. Personally I imagine other factors are more important, so I'm afraid I agree that this would not be decisive in halting the impending doom
#36
I'll be dead in 40 years time and I'm not planning on having kids, that would need to be worried. So protecting the environment is of no concern to me.

But seriously, guitars are a drop in the ocean compared to the real deforestation issues. If you really care about saving the environment, go bitch to them and solve the problems they're causing first. It'll make a far greater difference than whining at us ever will.

And yes, wood does make a slight difference in tone. Energy transferred from the strings into the body through vibrations are partly fed back into the strings through the guitar itself. Different woods sound different because they subtract different ranges of frequencies by different amounts before transferring the energy back to the strings.

So thanks for your concern, but I'll stick with my Gibson made from the dwindling supply of African Mahogany.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Jul 8, 2014,
#37
Nah. The environment has the ability to heal itself quite remarkably. The people are another story altogether.
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#38
It's China you should be concerned about. Even if the majority of Americans and Canadians did everything they could to avoid using products which harm critically endangered species, the effect would be insignificant statistically, because China doesn't give a fu!@
#39
Quote by Reagar
Standard cynical disengagement in many of the responses here. Exactly the reason that we're ****ed. Also present here is the "profits will solve our woes" argument, which posits that if people are allowed to make enough money - convert natural resources into pure capital/profit, pure money - we will eventually be able to buy our way out of whatever difficulties are created, using that very capital!
I don't know conclusively how ****ed the environment is, whether an area of rainforest the size of two football fields really does disappear every half second, whether global warming is real or not, but I know I'm certainly not going to believe that everything's going to be fine just because the guys who are making a lot of money say so.
Having said that, you haven't included any evidence of the impact that the guitar industry has on the rainforest, which could be massive or could be negligible. Personally I imagine other factors are more important, so I'm afraid I agree that this would not be decisive in halting the impending doom



I liked the part where you pretend to be smart and look down on everyone and then say "I don't know if global warming is real or not".
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#40
have any of you ever been to the rain forest? Most of it hasn't been touched because its impossible to live in!
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