#1
I think i know how to make/play Modes from the major scale but not 100% want someone to tell me if im correct. So you take the scale and just flat or sharp notes in the scale and it the regular scale pattern but you just adjust the notes?

So in c major the notes are

C D E F G A B

so dorian mode notes would be

C D Eb F G A Bb

and phyrigan

C Db Eb F G Ab Bb

and on the scale pattern i just flatten that note


So can someone tell me if this is right or if im wayyyyy offf???
#2
Don't worry about modes for now just focus on chordal harmony for now. It will be far more useful in the long run and be far more fruitful.
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#3
Quote by losing battle
Don't worry about modes for now just focus on chordal harmony for now. It will be far more useful in the long run and be far more fruitful.

Who says you can't harmonize modes (into chords) like any other scale? They are incredibly useful and I regret not learning them earlier. I honestly think all this "you're too much of a noob for modes" is pretty useless. Modes are the simplest thing ever. Flatten/sharpen one or two notes from major or minor scales. That's it.

I understand the modal vs tonal harmony argument, but if you use notes from Mixolydian and emphasize the b7, it will sound like Mixolydian.

@OP:
Yeah, you've got it right. It's a good idea to look at them as major and minor modes.

Major: Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian
Minor: Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian
Last edited by Elintasokas at Jul 9, 2014,
#4
Quote by Elintasokas
Who says you can't harmonize modes (into chords) like any other scale? They are incredibly useful and I regret not learning them earlier. I honestly think all this "you're too much of a noob for modes" is pretty useless. Modes are the simplest thing ever. Flatten/sharpen one or two notes from major or minor scales. That's it.

I understand the modal vs tonal harmony argument, but if you use notes from Mixolydian and emphasize the b7, it will sound like Mixolydian.

@OP:
Yeah, you've got it right. It's a good idea to look at them as major and minor modes.

Major: Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian
Minor: Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian

thanks i just thought it was too easy to be correct i read about people saying they are one of the hardest things to understand and then i started studing them and was like this cant be right its to easy but thanks Elintasokas
#5
Quote by mattousley
thanks i just thought it was too easy to be correct i read about people saying they are one of the hardest things to understand and then i started studing them and was like this cant be right its to easy but thanks Elintasokas

Yeah, but that's not the entire truth. There's also modal harmony which doesn't care about chord functions. If you want to learn about that, check out species counterpoint. Modal harmony predates the functional harmony system we have now. You don't really need to care about that stuff right now, though. Just think of them as slightly modified major and minor scales. You can use them to create melodies and chord progressions. Just emphasize the modal note.

For example in mixolydian you want to emphasize the flatted seventh degree (Bb in C)
An easy way to get a mixolydian sound is to just alternate between C and Bb chords and play melody using C mixolydian. If you want to add some funkiness use Eb as a passing note to E. It's the minor third. Playing the minor third in major is a common trick used in blues.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Jul 9, 2014,
#6
Quote by mattousley
I think i know how to make/play Modes from the major scale but not 100% want someone to tell me if im correct. So you take the scale and just flat or sharp notes in the scale and it the regular scale pattern but you just adjust the notes?

So in c major the notes are

C D E F G A B

so dorian mode notes would be

C D Eb F G A Bb

and phyrigan

C Db Eb F G Ab Bb

and on the scale pattern i just flatten that note


So can someone tell me if this is right or if im wayyyyy offf???
Yes that is correct.
Si
#7
+1
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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#8
Quote by Elintasokas
Who says you can't harmonize modes (into chords) like any other scale? They are incredibly useful and I regret not learning them earlier. I honestly think all this "you're too much of a noob for modes" is pretty useless. Modes are the simplest thing ever. Flatten/sharpen one or two notes from major or minor scales. That's it.

I understand the modal vs tonal harmony argument, but if you use notes from Mixolydian and emphasize the b7, it will sound like Mixolydian.

@OP:
Yeah, you've got it right. It's a good idea to look at them as major and minor modes.

Major: Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian
Minor: Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian

Modes aren't that complex but many people misunderstand them and that's why they are not recommended for beginners.

But TS seems to get them.

What seems to confuse people is how two scales with the same notes can have many different names. The thing is about how the notes in the scale function. You need to know about intervals and understand what a key/tonic is to really understand modes. Looking at them just on the fretboard also confuses a lot of people.

But yeah, you understand modes a lot easier if you look at parallel modes (which TS did), rather than relative modes. That way you'll learn the differences in sound. Because many people look at C major, D dorian, E phrygian, etc and play them all over the same chords and wonder why the same scale has so many different names and it sounds exactly the same. By looking at the differences between parallel modes you understand the differences a lot easier.
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#10
Think of modes as extentions of the major scale (aka the ionian mode). Each mode is the same parent scale just starting on a different interval. For example; in the key of C, The dorian mode starts on D (DEFGABCD). C dorian as you mentioned above would be the dorian mode of Bb. I'm guessing you know all the intervals in the different modes, it's just a matter of knowing the parent scale.
#11
Quote by guitardork97
Think of modes as extentions of the major scale (aka the ionian mode). Each mode is the same parent scale just starting on a different interval. For example; in the key of C, The dorian mode starts on D (DEFGABCD). C dorian as you mentioned above would be the dorian mode of Bb. I'm guessing you know all the intervals in the different modes, it's just a matter of knowing the parent scale.

This is the stupid way to look at modes.

In the key of C, D dorian is just C major.

C dorian is not Bb, it's C dorian. It functions differently.
#12
Yes but C dorian has the same key signature as Bb and happens to start on the 2nd of the Bb scale. Using the different qualities of the modes is obviously useful in music. Not meaning to belittle the use of modes as easy.
Last edited by guitardork97 at Jul 10, 2014,
#13
^^^^ The point that macashmck is making is that if you play D dorian over a progression in the key of C, it is simply C major and nothing more. So to then think of D dorian as in the key if C is pointless.
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#14
Quote by guitardork97
Yes but C dorian has the same key signature as Bb and happens to start on the 2nd of the Bb scale. Using the different qualities of the modes is obviously useful in music. Not meaning to belittle the use of modes as easy.

Yes, knowing that is enough. Now start thinking of C dorian as C dorian and not Bb starting from the 2nd.
#15
I kinda thought when people talk about like in c for dorian when they say start on D instead of C to find the D note and play the first scale pattern but you guys say i have it pretty well correct so thinks alot
#17
I don't think you have it where it's at all useful. I'm surprised that others have commended you for being right. Honestly, your facts as reported, are correct; your understanding, is at best... incomplete.

But frankly I and many others are threadbare from trying to explain that little bit, and subsequently find ourselves in the drivers seat of now having to justify our comments, or else be some "teacher" to someone without a foundation equipped to bear the learning part of this, to hundreds of people who open one of these mode threads like clockwork at least every 10 days.

But, neither do I want you operating with any illusion that being right, in a factual way, is in any way relevant to "understanding" or "knowing" how they are used/applied.

Best,

Sean
#18
Quote by Sean0913
I don't think you have it where it's at all useful. I'm surprised that others have commended you for being right. Honestly, your facts as reported, are correct; your understanding, is at best... incomplete.

But frankly I and many others are threadbare from trying to explain that little bit, and subsequently find ourselves in the drivers seat of now having to justify our comments, or else be some "teacher" to someone without a foundation equipped to bear the learning part of this, to hundreds of people who open one of these mode threads like clockwork at least every 10 days.

But, neither do I want you operating with any illusion that being right, in a factual way, is in any way relevant to "understanding" or "knowing" how they are used/applied.

Best,

Sean

cant do anything today without a smart elic how am i supposed to know if i dont ask and if you dont like the thread dont come in it pass it up simple as that and you say im not right i would really like to know what i am doing wrong cause i love playing the guitar and want nothing but to learn as much as i possibly can about it im not a music theory wiz but eveyone had to start somewhere im sure you wasn't born with it the main thing i was wanting people to tell me is yes im right or no im not and i dont think this is very nice of you


MATT
Last edited by mattousley at Jul 11, 2014,
#19
Quote by mattousley
i would really like to know what i am doing wrong cause i love playing the guitar and want nothing but to learn as much as i possibly can about it im not a music theory wiz but eveyone had to start somewhere
You didn't do anything wrong. You're on the right track. He just wants you to put your money where his mouth is.
Si