#1
For some reason my pedals are distorting when in the effect loop. It isn't just one but all that are doing this. Really having trouble figuring out how to explain it, the signal is perfect just like without the pedals when all are disengaged. But say I turn on the trem, it makes my clean channel distorted. Surprisingly, the grit I'm getting when doing this actually sounds good, like a good overdrive in front but I'm obviously not looking to have all my pedals act as overdrives as well as their intended function. I have tried running the pedals on batteries only to rule out power issues, I still have the problem with each pedal plugged individually in the loop so its not one pedal effecting all the others. I need to try replacing V4 to ensure that tube is ok but its less than four months old and doesn't have a lot f hours on it at all.

If anyone has suggestions please let me know, this issue has been going on for couple months and I have mostly just taken all pedals out and just plugged straight into the amp during this time. I don't get a lot of time to play and generally don't wanna **** around with this when I do get to play. The manual states it is a series effect loop but dunno if its instrument level or what. It has a send control which doesn't help, I can lower its level all the way and the low sound I can hear is still distorted. I'm at a complete loss.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#2
have you replaced the FX loop 12ax7 (or what ever Mesa uses in your amp)?

How are your send/return levels?
does the roadster have a selectable FX loop, series or paralell?

EDIT: I see it is a series loop
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Jul 9, 2014,
#3
I haven't replaced V4 yet as I mentioned however it is a new tube so just didn't jump to it but its on my list of trouble shooting for it. Send level doesn't seem to to anything but raise and lower the volume, the issue is there regardless. Not switchable, series only.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#4
I would try a new tube first and if that doesn't work, time for a tech
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#5
I purchased extended warranty from GC when I ordered it from their used site so if it comes to the time for a tech, at least they will be footing the bill, I wouldn't mind even getting a new one out of it................ . Ill have to remind myself to take out all the JJs I put in it and put back in the old Mesa's if I have to take it.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#6
try a few of the old tubes in it and see if that changes anything
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#7
Oh ive got a stockpile of all kinds of tubes to try just Im a lazy ****er as its a big ass combo I have to move to see what im doing oh well, guess it has to be done.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#8
I'm interested in this as well. My mesa is undergoing somewhat of a similar issue. It's still being worked on. When I engage one pedal through the loop there is not a problem, however once another pedal, irregardless of the type, is engaged that volume drops drastically. The tech that just fixed the amp did some re soldering on some cold solder joints and replaced a couple jacks. He did not daisy chain the pedals to have the same problem I was having so it's still being looked at. Luckily I just got a JCM 2000 again, so that is keeping me happy.
Gibson LP traditional and DC standard, PRS S2 Custom 24, Schecter Banshee 7
EVH 5153, Mesa DR Tremoverb combo 2-2x12's
Line 6 M13
#9
if the Mesa you are referencing is the single rec listed in your sig, I believe those have a parallel loop which is much different.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#10
shit had a long msg typed out gut im too drunk and messed it up, please any help is welcome but I won't be checking back until tomorrow so my drunk assss doesn't cuase more problem cuase I need hlp
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#11
sounds exactly like you have a line level loop.

very few pedals can take line level, as they don't have the headroom. line level is for racks. when you click on a pedal in a line level loop, the input gets saturated to the point of clipping, and as such, pads the signal right down. this causes your drop in volume. and you can't boost it back up with most pedals because you need a huge amount of gain to get it back up to line level, which most boosts don't even have. but that's kind of a moot point, because your signal will be clipped as all hell, and not in the good way.

you're gonna have to get either new pedals, a rack, an ebtech line level shifter, or a new amp.
#12
What he said. As I was reading it I was thinking, "does the amp have a line level loop?" Because that's what you're describing - overdriving the pedal.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#13
Quote by Cathbard
What he said. As I was reading it I was thinking, "does the amp have a line level loop?" Because that's what you're describing - overdriving the pedal.
Apparently it has a send level pot. He should take a look at where it's set.
#14
As I said, I've tried turning the send level all the way down and it still clips the hell out of my pedals. I really love these pedals but since the manual only mentioned processors during the pages on the effect loop I was afraid it may not be made for pedals. I love the amp too much to ditch it for something else though. Does this mean I need to ditch the pedals for rack gear?
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#15
Maybe the return impedance is low and loading down the pedals and causing distortion. In order not to ditch your pedals you would need to put some kind of buffer pedal at the end that could drive a low impedance. But if you found and bought one and that wasn't it, then that would suck too.

If you have a mixer you could do a test. Run the last pedal into the instrument/mic level mixer input, then run the main out to the return. If it works then the right buffer pedal would do the same.
#16
I have a carvin mixer let me try that.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#17
Well I had to plug the pedals into the line level input of one of the channels of the mixer and ran a monitor out back to the amp. After getting the levels under control I didn't notice the clipping problem anymore. So what does this mean?
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#18
Quote by bluestratplayer
As I said, I've tried turning the send level all the way down and it still clips the hell out of my pedals. I really love these pedals but since the manual only mentioned processors during the pages on the effect loop I was afraid it may not be made for pedals. I love the amp too much to ditch it for something else though. Does this mean I need to ditch the pedals for rack gear?

i've been doing a lot of research into line level loops this week, as i've been looking for a boost pedal to stick in my randall. there are some manufacturers who give their pedals enough headroom for line level, like strymon, empress, eventide, and the boss twin pedal series (dd-20, eq-20, etc) if you don't wanna go rack. what sort of effects do you use/want?

and also, vis-à-vis the send level pot, some of the threads i was reading had people talked about how their pedals were still clipping, regardless of how low they had the send level. i don't know what's up with that, because a send pot should be able to control the signal to instrument level. i guess it's still too hot for some pedals, or maybe the loop is poorly designed.
#19
Describe the entire chain you wired up because that didn't make sense. I would have gone send > mixer and watched the VU meter on the mixer. The pedal is going to want to see no more than about -10dBV. Line level is +4 dBV.
So if you were to mod an amp with a line level loop to take pedals you have to attenuate the send by 14 dB and amplify what's going to return by 14 dB. You may be able to do this with the mixer using two channels and different outputs for each channel (ie auxillaries).
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#20
I wend send to the cmat trem,chorus,phaser, and deeelay to the line level input on channel one of the mixer then monitor out to return on the mesa.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#22
Yeah, I was thinking of that gadget too, Yianni.


I would have put the mixer between the send and the pedals. What you've done isn't attenuating the input to the pedals, that's what you need to do. You are trying to determine how hot a signal is coming from send. You haven't actually done that, well, not really.
Edit: doesn't the manual tell you what type of loop it has? ie. line or instrument?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 10, 2014,
#23
by the time I finish my board and have to buy that too, it almost seems I would be better off just going rack......
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#24
I couldn't find any info on whether it was a line level or instrument level loop. I did message mesa though to see if they could help out. They get back to me really quick last time. I asked them for details about the loop and told them the problem Im having and the pedals in the loop. There hours of operation look like they will be out till Monday though.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#26
No power? Going from +4 to -10, sure - but how does it amplify from -10 to +4 without power?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#28
Oh, ok. Cool.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#29
Ok, 20 min for this response from Mesa:

Garey Noble

Today at 6:28 PM

Togsgifford88@yahoo.com






Hi Gregory,


This can sometimes be a result of having your channel masters set too high and your main output control set too low. The simple test here is to invert your settings. For example, set each channel master to about 9 O'clock and set your one main output control up to around 11-12 O'clock. This ultimately sends less signal to the FX processor which means it won't overdrive the processors input and you should get a cleaner signal. These settings are merely examples though, you'll still need to fine tune them for your application. The main idea though is to always keep your main output control set higher than the 3 channel masters when running FX to avoid overdriving the input on your processor.




Please let me know if you've got any questions or need assistance in any way. Thanks!


Garey Noble
Customer Service/Product Specialist
Mesa/Boogie Ltd
1317 Ross Street
Petaluma CA 94954
707-778-6565
gnoble@mesaboogie.com
www.mesaboogie.com
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#30
That makes perfect sense.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#31
That makes sense but doesn't explain how it worked in your mixer experiment. I suggested the mixer experiment because I assumed the send pot would take the send level down to practically zero, but after that response I'm guessing it doesn't. The mixer experiment was in the off chance that a low return impedance was causing distortion in the pedal circuit. It was a long shot guess but after working with programming digital chips for so many years a lot of my most difficult problems have been solved with long shot guesses.

I'm anxious to hear if just tweaking the channel and master volume does the trick.
#32
Well it worked, not understanding why having the channel masters high then cutting overall level down with the master output control did this put they were right. Put the master output up to noon then adjust each channel volume control to where I wanted them and perfect.

Im guessing this means I was pushing the preamp volume way too high then sending it through the loop and then lowering the level to the power amp? Just curious.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#33
Yep preamp volume too high. At least the logical answer was the correct one. That always makes life easier. I hate it when I fix a computer bug and I don't know why the fix worked.
#34
Quote by fly135
That makes sense but doesn't explain how it worked in your mixer experiment. I suggested the mixer experiment because I assumed the send pot would take the send level down to practically zero, but after that response I'm guessing it doesn't. The mixer experiment was in the off chance that a low return impedance was causing distortion in the pedal circuit. It was a long shot guess but after working with programming digital chips for so many years a lot of my most difficult problems have been solved with long shot guesses.

I'm anxious to hear if just tweaking the channel and master volume does the trick.


I dunno why the mixer experiment worked since I was only messing with the volume after it had already hit the pedals. Oh well, I gave everything a thirty min rundown and life is good again. My apathy has caused me to just deal and run without effects for almost two months with such a simple fix

Side note, had my wife messing with the pedals as I played pushing levels and twisting all the knobs to make sure the issue was gone and damn there are some nice sounds when people are randomly messing with the settings of those pedals. She accidentily made some of the coolest occilations (cannot spell that damn word lol) when messing with the vox.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#35
That is an interesting answer to that. I wonder if I was having something similar go on with my amp.
Gibson LP traditional and DC standard, PRS S2 Custom 24, Schecter Banshee 7
EVH 5153, Mesa DR Tremoverb combo 2-2x12's
Line 6 M13
#36
No idea but seriously just message mesa. I've had to twice now for quick questions and have gotten a response in less than an hour or so both times. I think this time was twenty min. As long as its during their business hours. Might as well have them help you out if you can't alone.
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent
#37
It means that the master volume is after the loop and the channel volumes are before the loop - get it?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#38
Makes perfect sense. Just never thought about it really, so many switches and knobs lol, I still haven't been through all the modes and options yet. Plus I didn't really think about those channel volumes clipping my pedals. Shows how technically disabled I am with this stuff
Ibanez SIR27
Pod HD500x

RIP:
Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12 combo
Cmatmods analog chorus, phaser, tremoglo, signa drive, butah, and deeelay
walrus Audio Descent